Feel Bad? (Baiting Morality)

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Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

I think the journalist's argument is just as sophomoric as claiming that a women shares blame for being raped because of what she was wearing.

edit: added a possessive '

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:17 pm

i didnt know anyone working at pcspecialist.co.uk but i still bought a pc from them. does that make me insane?

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:37 pm

7/9 wrote:

Blah Blah Blah

If the cap fits, wear it! Wink

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:54 pm

If you want to know just how harmless your lad is, just send him an ASEM from a fresh account and tell him you are all set to meet the diplomat at the airport with the required 20,000 US$. If he answers giving you instructions how to hand over the money = having you mugged then he is scum.

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:57 pm

The Monseignour. I have been involved in busting scammers since the old fax days. Scammers are nasty thieving scum who prey on the vulnerable.

I admit I have little sympathy for certain types of victim who are quite happy to help the character played by the Scammer rob the bank or relatives (dead relative scam) or steal money from the people of an African Country (The trunk box and similar scams). However, a large percentage of modern scams prey on naive people who are particularly vulnerable if they are short of money. For example the lottery winner and job scammers are merely naive and extremely unversed in the ways of the internet. Another group that do not deserve to be scammed are the good Christian souls who want to help the unfortunates in Africa and India.

I admire your humanity, but frankly, your attitude demonstrates that you are already falling under the spell of the poor starving African victim of colonial oppression! Rolling Eyes

Take a cold shower and look again at some of the stories here!

Elite Baiter Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 1455

@ Original Poster.

If you ever feel sorry for a scammer, rebait as a 70 year old who has lost everything to having already fallen for three previous scams and who needs the money within a month to stop their house being repossessed.

Baiting Guru Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3193

I think this is apropos:
http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68244

Baiting Guru Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 3551

Monseigneur,

Whom do you believe - a journalist who has done one story, or baiters who have talked with thousands of scammers?

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:42 pm

What I actually did was post an extract from a journalist�s article. My posts contain no suggestion that I lean either way, ie, in favour or against the argument. The intention was to encourage debate from either perspective � which it has done!

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:46 pm

Gamblor wrote:

I got a few trophy pics today and the living conditions look pretty squalid.

Around my neighborhood too. My Evil wife and I are currently going trough the Little Evil One stuff (toys, clothes) for our local charity. I think I know how you feel. I cry every Christmas at the tought of people not having food or shelter at Christmas. kids with nothing under the Christmas tree. At one point in my life I saw the bottom of the barril and if I'm still here to talk about it it's because I deceided to get my life back together. No matter what the conditions, If someone somewhere wants to make himself a better life then it can be done. (scammer included)

I'm an alcoolic an drug addict sober now for almost 4 years. Got a criminal record related to that too. I now got a wife, a wonderful little kid, a full time job and most of all I regain my self respect. None of this could have been accomplish without outside help. None of this could have been accomplish without my will to change.

No matter where you are on earth, your life is what you make of it.

(End of the real me and back to the post whore you're all use to.)

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:09 pm

@ Centaure, I am very happy to hear how you managed to overcome your problems. Congratulations!

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:12 pm

thud419 wrote:

I think this is apropos:
http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68244

Excellent example Thud.

@Centaure congratulations getting your life on track. Very Happy

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:36 pm

Please no flowers. Embarassed

It was not the point. I only used my self as an example because that's the one I know best about.

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:38 pm

Old Coaster wrote:

The Monseignour...............(abridged).................I admire your humanity, but frankly, your attitude demonstrates that you are already falling under the spell of the poor starving African victim of colonial oppression! :roll: Take a cold shower and look again at some of the stories here!

My post in this thread (ie, a quote from a journalist) did not imply my position and was merely to promote debate, which it has certainly done!

Elite Baiter Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 1455

That was a lovely post Centaure - hope things continue to go well. (And your two most valuable things are things I don't have yet!)

One other thing worth pointing out to the original poster is that our societies are in fact expert at hiding away the people with problems who are living in squalor.

I had a former job that very often brought me into contract with people living in squalor, and I found them hidden away in the most unusual corners that I would have never thought of.

I can't go past a plain looking building in the edge of a town centre without wondering if it isn't actually a halfway house full of the scenes from hell I remember walking into one day when I paid the first of many visits to a building that could just as easily have been a block of luxury flats. I also can't go past a derelict house in the countryside anymore without wondering if it really is derelict.

The job also introduced me to the existence of actual african scam victims in the UK. The vast majority of people I came across had clearly got into a mess because of drink or drugs, followed a fudge of mental illness, loss of work, loss of ability to work through accident or disability, just being too simple for life nowadays, and the usual things like taking a break up badly etc etc etc.

In amongst these people I consistently came across a small number of people that had been dumped to the bottom of the pile after experiences with scammers proved to be the last straw. Maybe not a lot, but still way too many. Say one a month, something like that.

The other thing we don't see in life is the legions of people whose lives are lived so precariously at the edge that any of a large number of things could through them over. These are the people who are just holding onto lives that are sadly just waiting for something to pull them apart. For these people a fake cheque for �5000 could be a salvation that couldn't be ignored as well as that something that could destroy their life.

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:19 pm

From someone who was just about to send money to a lad:

Quote:

We are heartbroken. We recently lost our home and our business in a flood and when my husband was promised an inheritance we were so relieved. This was such a Godsend, as there have been times when we could not even buy groceries.

The Monseignour (sic), you could have found any number of examples like this if you'd searched, and any number of threads started in a similar manner to this one, which would have answered the question for you. What sort of debate did you expect that would be any different to those? Confused

Centaure, congrats on turning things around. Smile

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:47 pm

NB: My Member Name is spelt incorrectly for a reezon (sic).

Concerning Eight�s post.

This thread was started by a User who was seemingly questioning the morality or ethics of scambaiting.

It appears that Eight too, has made an incorrect assumption about my Post. I have stated no personal opinions and I do not accept that posting a quote infers a view.

Eight is wrong in stating: �which would have answered the question for you�. I haven�t asked any questions, just posted a quote!

How members react to what a journalist has written is their prerogative, but one should not victimise another Member (and I am beginning to feel victimised by Eight, by Old Coaster, and by Seven of Nine), simply for posting what someone else has said.

I feel that this thread has been diverted from its main purpose � discussing the propriety of Scambaiting � and I choose not to respond to any more personal attacks, whether by Moderators (who should know better) or by other Members.

419Eater Admin Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 7469

You're suffering from what is known as 'The Pope Effect' Monseignour Wink

Anyway, to put my two cents worth to the original poster's question; no, I never feel guilty. As you get to learn more and more about how these people operate, you feel less and less sympathy for them. Not that I ever had any in the first place.

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:53 pm

You're right, The Monseignour, I made a mistake. My apologies.

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:59 pm

If you feel that way, you are probably not baiting in your comfort zone. We all have different limits of what we do and don't do in our baits. Some people love getting those lads tattooed, some baiters would never ask a lad to get a tattoo. See what I mean? You feel the way you feel. And the load of us telling you that these people are criminals and don't deserve anything but this, may not solve your problem. I would like to recommend you to do what you are comfortable with. If trophy baiting makes you feel this way, why not straightbait as an old, sick lady?

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:55 pm

Gamblor wrote:

Does anyone ever feel bad about making these guys do some of this stuff?

I expect that a percentage of the people who sign up here do end up feeling bad about making these guys do some of this stuff. Then they leave Smile

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:58 pm

The Monseignour's confused journo wrote:

... It takes a thief to deal with a thief.’

Ok, ok, ok. I confess! I'm guilty!

String me up from the nearest lamp post because I steal from the b******s every chance I get. I steal their time, their opportunities to find real victims, and hopefully on occasion I even manage to steal a piece of their sanity and a chunk of their pride.

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:05 pm

@persephone, I agree with you.

For instance, at Scamorama you find a lot of baits that use colonialist slurs. I couldn't do that even to a scammer because I think it's degrading the baiter in the process.

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:56 pm

I never feel any guilt at all for these scamming scumbags. They'd steal the last penny from a dying pensioner.
I've been absolutely broke and down on my luck. Not nearly as bad as Centaure, but literally my parents had only having enough money to eat every two days and that was in the UK . My parents taught me to work hard and have respect for myself and others. Did i turn to crime? no i cleaned toilets and took whatever work i could get. i have now worked my way up to working for a major IT firm as a consultant. I have worked my way up through honest graft and have no qualms about taking these scum to the cleaners.
Read some of the threads where people have 'won' lotterys or inherited. these people can be desperate and will grasp at any straw. Scum who exploit this deserve everything they get

Master Baiter Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 146

What got me thinking was the following: I'm straight baiting this guy and I introduced a character looking for help collecting scientific data from Africa (I won't get into details at this time). The scammer put me in touch with an "associate" to do the leg work. I was just worried this was some guy who thinks he is doing legit work and I was actually "scamming" him by letting him think he's going to get paid.

More than likely he is some scumbag, and I'm wasting his time and resources.

Moral of the story: When you're schmammered, don't bait with your girlfriend standing over your shoulder going "Oh, those poor people..."

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