nOOb wants to get some revenge!

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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:57 pm

mules are common in check scams. the same principle could apply here.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 34

Anyone who works in a bank etc can find out were he lives, his home phone etc . Of course they wont without police involvment.

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:02 pm

Have you considered that he may have used fake documents to open the account.

Is it an actual typical high street bank??

Not quite a Newb Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 34

Its at the Halifax.

Baiting Guru Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 11857 Location: UK

From what JT told me, and I checked it out, the person who scammed his has a UK "Orange" mobile phone number, but he also has an [email protected] email address.

As far as I'm aware, you only get one of those email addreses when you have a BT (British telecom) account for connecting to the internet, I have an [email protected] that I got when I first signed up with British Telecom to get online, so JT could at least pass that on to the UK Police, who should be able to trace his current or old account details through his BT email address, and also his UK bank details.

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:41 pm

Getting a badge so soon after joining would be cool.
@JT- Now that you have had your named changed here, you might consider having spotthepot go back and edit his post on the first page of this thread. PM him and I'm sure he will.

419Eater is my life Joined: 25 Aug 2006 Posts: 403

James_Taylor wrote:

Physical danger? Get real. This guys no 'hardman' i've talked to him, and if you've talked to him you'd know what a novice he is.

James... for 80 pounds you're acting like a total doofus. Been watching you post here and Finally feel like I have to chime in. You're going WAY over the Line in terms of involving 3rd parties, and by ASSUMING that this lad isn't HARD you put yourself and all of those around you at risk. These folks can and do operate as cells in countries all around the world. ONE may not be hard to take on, but can you take on 5? 10? 15 of em? These folks have kidnapped, Raped and Murdered folks all over the world to collect the money they want and violence is not outside their capacity.

LISTEN to the MODERATORS... they know a HELL of alot more on this subject then you or even I know. If they point something out to you take it as gospel... No 80 British pounds is worth your life or the lives of those around you.

Wisen up and learn to play the game the safe way... not the hard headed impetuous way you are going about it. You're only setting yoursalf up for possible tragedy.

Sorry I had to Vent all.... was getting to be a little much

Simon

Not quite a Newb Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 34

Yeah well i think you guys are getting the wrong idea about me. I'm not planning on going down to bradford and raiding the address with a few mates. Obviously im exagerating but the only reason i was talking to this bloke is to get information that i passed onto the police. Im not going to 'bait' him.
One question tho, what will the police do when they find this lad?

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:24 pm

What the Police will do will depend on the available evidence. You have to be able to justify your accusation, and your scammer has to rebutt it.

If he can produce a receipt, which isn't difficult, the Police will do nothing except advise him to begin an enquiry.

Even if he can't produce a receipt, it is your word against his. For example, can you prove you didn't receive it? The fact you know you didn't is irrelevant.

Unless there have been other complaints, or the police already are investigating him, you will have a hard time making any charges stick.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 34

A reciept of what? Ok to verify this, this is exactly what i have:
1. A BT internet account name
2. 2 Contract phone numbers
3. A address which he claims to live at
4. A bank account number and sort code
5. Varios MSN chatlog's
6. A forum showing that one of the items that this guy was selling had 'gone'
7. A Picture of a reciept that he said the post offive had given him.

I have more but off the top of my head thats what i can remember, thats enough for the police surley?[/list][/list]

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:47 pm

I should have explained more clearly, if he can produce a receipt for proof of postage.

To be honest, I don't think the Police will be able to find anything there to prove he is a scammer, but don't take my word for it.

If they can find evidence of repetitive behavior, that is a different matter.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 34

What so after we agree that i pay money into his account and he tells me exactley what ill be getting and then he does nothing? What will the police think? That i maid a charitable donation?

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:55 pm

I am not the one not believing you.

You need to be able to prove he intended to scam you!

Without proof everything else is incidental!

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:38 pm

@James_Taylor: On the face of it you have a criminal deception. But so many of these turn into a 'civil debt'. You'll have your work cut out.

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:27 am

If you can prove beyond reasonable doubt to a skeptical court that:

a) he promised you an item
b) you sent the money
c) he received the money
d) he never sent the item promised

then you have a case.

Other than that, you have a big bunch of frustration.

Just remember this: beyond a certain point, bashing your head into a brick wall only gives you a sore head.

Of course, as has been mentioned, if the police have had other complaints about him, that's another kettle of fish. Make enquiries. Find out.

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:40 pm

James_Taylor wrote:

1. A BT internet account name
2. 2 Contract phone numbers
3. A address which he claims to live at
4. A bank account number and sort code
5. Varios MSN chatlog's
6. A forum showing that one of the items that this guy was selling had 'gone'
7. A Picture of a reciept that he said the post offive had given him.

I have more but off the top of my head thats what i can remember, thats enough for the police surley?

Let's look at it from the understaffed, underfunded, overworked policeman's point of view, here.

To confirm all this, I have to get myself to the judge, get the proper legal documents, get BT to pull logs and account data, the phone company/companies to do the same, go check out the address and confirm that there is some kind of link between the person holding the btinternet email address, the bank account, and the phone(s), get the bank to pull the information on the account and account activity, MSN to do the same to confirm the chat logs, the forum admin to do the same, and also confirm that the owner of the forum account is linked to the same individual, and try to confirm a post office receipt. This assumes the department even has someone on staff with the tech skills to put that list together. Some small police departments don't.

And it's all evidence which a decent lawyer could probably rip apart. "Why, my client's name is in the phone book, along with his address! His credit card number was obviously stolen and his details used to open that account." Or just, "Here's the receipt. It was sent. It's not my fault the postal service lost it." Or "How does the complainant know that the package wasn't delivered? Couldn't it have been stolen after being delivered? The deliverman probably left it unattended on the porch and some young ruffians stole it." Reasonable doubt would be pretty easy. Some of your evidence even works in his favor. The receipt, particularly.

It's not as simple as "Oh, well, he scammed you, let's arrest him, then. I'm sure we'll pull out all the stops and get an immediate conviction for 80 pounds."

They would probably refer you to civil court for such a small amount. Or at best, haul him in on a misdemeanor theft charge. You can certainly complain, but I wouldn't hold my breath for an arrest.

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:50 pm

mrsbean wrote:

overworked policeman

BWAHAHAHAAHAAHAHA! I love it!

Sorry I am such a smart arse

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:06 pm

Oi! I heard that! Wink

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:17 pm

Oh, I occasionally give the police hell for not wanting to put their doughnuts down to do any work, or actually arrest anyone, but I'll give the local ones I'm familiar with credit for one thing. They don't get paid nearly enough for the crap they put up with or the 12-hour shifts in which they put up with it. They get approximately feck-all in resources or support. NYPD Blue it ain't.

Elite Baiter Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 1455

Also bear in mind that some organisations simply regard giving government bodies information that they are entitled to as a non-profit generating activity and waste of time, and will as such do anything to frustrate them.

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:32 pm

mrsbean wrote:

They would probably refer you to civil court for such a small amount. Or at best, haul him in on a misdemeanor theft charge. You can certainly complain, but I wouldn't hold my breath for an arrest.

JT - If you really want your 80quid back then start a civil action in the small claims court. If you can provide the necessary documentary proof then the court will enter a judgment against the scammer which in all likelihood he will ignore and the police won't be interested in enforcing. Rightly or wrongly, they really do have better things to do. You are clearly annoyed at having been ripped off but the sad fact is that there's very little you can realistically do about it except learn from the experience, suck it up and take more precautions in the future when conducting business with total strangers on the internet or whatever.

I'm speaking from experience. There's a bloke walking around in the UK at the moment who owes several people, including me, several thousand pounds and who has several county court judgments outstanding against him. The lawyer we consulted (more expense) told us 'off the record' that the chances of getting out money back, even assuming the toerag actually has it which is doubtful, are more or less zero. There is another person, a former tenant, who has in her possession some valuable antique furniture which she 'removed' when she was evicted for non-payment of rent. We engaged the services of a private investigator (more expense) who managed to track her down and we then asked the police to intervene and arrest her for theft. They weren't interested and told us that even if they did haul her in they didn't have sufficient evidence to make the charges stick and the public prosecutor simply wouldn't bother trying.

It was a harsh lesson that in the UK today the criminal and civil justice system offers more protection and rights to the criminals than the victims. [end rant]

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:40 pm

Quote:

Wisen up and learn to play the game the safe way... not the hard headed impetuous way you are going about it. You're only setting yoursalf up for possible tragedy.

Simon

I agree. People coming in here and treating this like some child's game, and ignoring the experts peeves me. Total disregard and disrespect for this community.

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