I need help...is he for real?

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Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 35

Hi all,
Over a month ago I was a member on a dating site and I happened to get a response from this handsome man
commenting how he liked my profile and such. I responded back, and since then we have been emailing back
and forth and IM'ing on Yahoo. He told me he is British and about 6 years or so he went to Africa for
business and saw a Orphanage there where he could not forget the faces of these poor kids. He later was
able to adopt a daughter there who is now 15 and has decided that he wanted to help out this Orphanage
and now is involved in a Charity. He did ask if I could contribute and I happened to snap and emailed him
saying that he was a scammer and such. He replied and said that all I needed to do was to tell him that
I was unable to do so and he said he would of left it at that knowing now that I was not in a financial
status to help. He said his feelings were hurt there thinking that I had thought of him as a thief.
Anyways, since that confrontation we continue to email and IM and at first I was trying to see if he was
telling me the truth or not, but in the meantime, I feel like I am letting me emotions get too involved.
He has told me that he feels so attached to me and wants to come out and see me once he "takes care of
business" in Africa. His words sound so real and geniune, but since finding out through a friend about
scammers, I find it complexing. What do or how do I find out if he is truely a scammer? Any suggestions?

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:56 pm

I must be confusing for you, but if you supply us with a few things we may bew able to help.
First up, can you post a picture or two of him up here. Maybe someone will recognise them.
Secondly can you post up the email headers. If you don't know how then feel free to PM me with
either the last part of your email address (the @yahoo.com or @hotmail.com part) or the name of
the program you use to check your emails. I can talk you through it then.

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:58 pm

Hi flyakite, welcome.

Offer to contribute directly to some well-known charity that helps out African Orphanages, and see how he reacts.
Chances are he will want you to send the money through Western Union directly to him or his charity's lawyer/director/etc.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 35

I guess I forgot to give out his name that he has given to me: Raymond
Bala and screen name is [email protected]. I hope this helps. How would I post a picture?

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:10 am

Hello and welcome to the Eater, flyakite123!

To post a picture, go to a free hosting site such as www.imageshack.us and upload the pic. You will get a url for the pic once
its uploaded. Copy the url and then reply in this thread. Click the Img button, paste in the pic's url, then click the Img button
again. Voila, posted pic!

I have to say, this story has my scammer spidey-sense tingling, especially this:

Quote:

He has told me that he feels so attached to me and wants to come out and see me once he "takes care of business" in Africa

I'm guessing that, at the last minute, there will be an emergency. Your friend will either need you to wire cash, which he will promise
to pay back; or he will ask you to cash a cheque for him (because he mysteriously can't get it cashed in Africa), wait for it to clear,
and then send the cash via Western Union or Moneygram.

He also might try to enlist your aid in getting "supplies" sent to the orphanage because they can't, for some reason, be shipped
there directly... or, he may ask you to forward or collect mail to or from "contributors" or "friends" for him. If any of the
above happens, its automatically 100% scam.

I hate to sound like such a cynic, but this whole thing just screams love-scammer to me. Evil or Very Mad

Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 35

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. I emailed Wayne a picture of the suppose scammer, and he will load it on here for me.
I wanted to share some of the things he has said to me in emails. This one I will paste is about a week or two ago and when he first
asked me for a donation. I will then paste he response to me confronting him of being a fake. :
"Hey baby,
you there? i miss you and i would never forget about you....Been busy with business and charity work.....
I was gonna ask you if you would like to make a donation towards the saving of two kids lives....it would also mean a lot to me to see
your name on the donors list.
Kiss kiss, miss you.
Ray"
"Hey baby,
I dont understand what this is about....I am in a campaign for donations thats why i asked if you were interested....its perfectly
voluntary..i wouldnt take offence with this email, but i do not really like what you are insinuating with it.
I am no disappointment, please take that back....
Anyways i'm online if you get home and wanna chat, pls dont hesitate to check if i'm online....i wouldnt let what u just wrote back
upset me...
Whats wrong with asking you to help needy kids in Africa, all u need to say is that you can/cant....not insult me....
ciao
Ray"
And here is another response from him...this was the same day when I confronted him (and before I knew of this site)
"It just dawned on me what you actually meant in your email about what your friend said...Were you actually insinuating that i
am after your money??? If thats what you meant, then i am sorry but you are definitely mistaken my dear....I wouldnt take it completely as
an insult, i recognize the fact that we havent met in person, and that you dont know me...Well its good to have your defences up, but please
in later events, pls do not draw conclusions or be presumptous because your friend had a bad experience with someone....
Chat with you someother time.
Ray"

Master Baiter Joined: 05 Jun 2006 Posts: 127

I really hope that he's not a scammer... but I'm with SF, it doesn't smell quite right.

I'm a little confused, is he telling you that he's in Africa now, or that he's been there in the past and has to go back?

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:13 am

Proceed with extreme caution IMO.
I'm too cynical as well, but there's a LOT of Lad Script in his emails. If he asks you for any money, either to send directly to
him or to his 'orphanage', especially if it's cash via WU then he's deffo a scammer. Ask if his 'orphanage' is affliated to a
recognised charity, NGO or church (most of them are) and then say you'd be happy to send a donation direct to the charity/church
with instructions that you want the money to be spent on the So And So Orphanage. Most legit organisations are happy to do this.
If he baulks at the idea you have your answer.
If he claims to be British and visiting Africa 'on business' then find out where he lives in the UK and ask a few friendly questions
about his 'home town' or say "hey, I went there once. Is the Happy Lad [insert joke name] pub still there on the High Street
opposite Marks & Spencer?". If he says "why yes, it is!" you also have your answer.

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:34 am

Here's the photo of "Ray"

Pretty generic picture don't you think? No EXIF data to check on it. Reading the stuff he's written to you it looks very ladlike to me as well. We'll need some more info I think. Time to check the headers. Open any of his emails and scroll ot the bottom right hand corner where you'll see "Full Headers" in blue writing. Click on that and the headers will show up. Make sure you delete your email address from it before posting it here though.

@fac - I almost freaked when I received your email. I baited a lad that was using the same name as your real one for ages and made his life pretty miserable.

Shocked

Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 35

Hi again,

Below is the Header from one of his emails. This person is very kind to me and has not asked me for any money or
donations to help out since that one time before. We did speak for the first time on the phone last night, but the
connection was horrible but he told me how wonderful it was to hear my voice. Again, I just want to make sure I am
not taken advantage of, but it is difficult because I do care about this person.
Let me know what this header says...Thank you!

From Raymond bala Thu Jul 27 22:23:05 2006
X-Apparently-To: via 66.163.178.107; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:23:06 -0700
X-Originating-IP: [209.191.125.64]
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Authentication-Results: mta174.mail.re2.yahoo.com from=yahoo.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)
Received: from 209.191.125.64 (HELO web38603.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.125.64) by mta174.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP;
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:23:06 -0700
Received: (qmail 52362 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jul 2006 05:23:05 -0000
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:
To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=fh/TaFWOG41OFc5M+HlJ/o/Cya+e/lM5abZCKa0QI8gSayoCcuqkYvUzz2TY4OToxLj
6rXpqq8OHHsZZZjOu2id++pQNG4546ZlDtnRuxm0xVQJ0VoDgeXpKa6lc1RRJOz3bQA8pT0V4A+FXi1dNXh762ZHCZQBYBk4/dSVHWsI= ;
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Received: from [82.128.3.30] by web38603.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:23:05 PDT
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:23:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Raymond bala" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject: My photos
To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-269145757-1154064185=:28564"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Length: 41786

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:30 pm

The IP address shows this information

Quote:

Using 0 day old cached answer (or, you can get fresh results).
Hiding E-mail address (you can get results with the E-mail address).

% This is the RIPE Whois query server #2.
% The objects are in RPSL format.
%
% Note: the default output of the RIPE Whois server
% is changed. Your tools may need to be adjusted. See
% http://www.ripe.net/db/news/abuse-proposal-20050331.html
% for more details.
%
% Rights restricted by copyright.
% See http://www.ripe.net/db/copyright.html

% Information related to '82.128.0.0 - 82.128.127.255'

inetnum: 82.128.0.0 - 82.128.127.255
org: ORG-AFNC1-RIPE
netname: AFRINIC-NET-TRANSFERRED-20050223
descr: This network has been transferred to AFRINIC
remarks: These IP addresses are assigned in the AFRINIC region.
remarks: Authoritative registration information for this network
remarks: is available for query and modification in
remarks: the AFRINIC whois database: whois.afrinic.net or
remarks: web site: http://www.afrinic.net
remarks: The routing registry information (route(6) objects)
remarks: may be published in any Routing Registry, including
remarks: RIPE Whois Database
country: EU # country is really somewhere in African Region
admin-c: AFRI-RIPE
tech-c: AFRI-RIPE
status: ALLOCATED PA
mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-routes: RIPE-NCC-RPSL-MNT
changed: **********@ripe.net 20050223
source: RIPE

organisation: ORG-AFNC1-RIPE
org-name: African Internet Numbers Registry
org-type: RIR
address: see http://www.afrinic.net
e-mail: *********@ripe.net
admin-c: AFRI-RIPE
tech-c: AFRI-RIPE
remarks: For more information on AFRINIC assigned blocks, use
remarks: AFRINIC's whois database, whois.afrinic.net.
mnt-ref: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
changed: *********@ripe.net 20050223
source: RIPE

role: The African Internet Numbers Registry
org: ORG-AFNC1-RIPE
address: AFRINIC, see http://www.afrinic.net
admin-c: AFRI-RIPE
tech-c: AFRI-RIPE
nic-hdl: AFRI-RIPE
e-mail: *********@ripe.net
remarks: For more information on AFRINIC assigned blocks, connect
remarks: to AFRINIC's whois database, whois.afrinic.net.
mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
changed: **********@ripe.net 20050223
source: RIPE

Nigeria is a hotbed for scammers. This might sound like a strange question. Did he speak with a Nigerian accent? I appreciate the line was bad, but did his voice sound Nigerian or British?

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:57 pm

@ flyakite - Has he told you he's in Nigeria or just 'Africa'?? If he's legit he should not have a problem telling which country he's in. I don't mean to be mean, but you seem to be clinging to the hope that he's OK and the general concensus here among people more experienced in these things than you or me is that he's probably not. The fact that you have that tiny seed of doubt yourself is a good indicator - listen to your head, not your heart. Love/Dating scammers are very clever at picking their trusting victims and if he's not a scammer he should understand that and answer any concerns or specific questions you might have. If he's at all hesitant or vague then even if he's not a scammer he's probably married! Very Happy

Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 35

He told me he lives in Great Britian and only goes to Africa to visit the orphanage he supports. He has shown me pictures of himself, his daughter and himself at the orphanage in Africa dancing silly with the kids. You are right, he could be married. I didnt have a red flag until I was talking to a good friend of mine and told her about Ray and she was the one to tell me about these men who talk about donating to charity in Africa. I would have never known. At the time she told me about these men, Ray did not mention to me about donating to his charity/orphanage. He told me the name of his charity is the Grange Organization. Here is a copy of the first page of information of this organization that he sent me.
Organisation information

Name:
GRANGE FOUNDATION
Headquarters:
17, Toyin st,
ikeja- lagos,
Nigeria 23401,

34 woodbroke road ,
southall
middsex
ub2 4rr
united kingdom

Branch office:
234, topa missebo crescent, Cotonou. Republic du Benin.

Telephone:
08033864511, 01-2885535
Fax:
Email: [email protected]

Description:
GRANGE FOUNDATIONs a non- profit, non-governmental organisation dedicated to gender dev. Upliftment of the resources, poor and under privileged members of the society through the total dev. of mankind in a health and conducive environment. It is a membership organisation founded and registered in Nigeria in 1996 with head quarters. In Lagos state of west Africa. The organisation was a vision as follow, Eradication of poverty, gender discrimination, and provision of a better life for the African child.

Main contact:
Mr. Elron Grange

Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 35

Hi Wayne,

No, he sounded British to me. I have a medical director at work who is from Africa and has a distinct African accent..I would of caught that. Now, when we spoke briefly last night, there was alot of "noise" and I heard like a loud ringing sound of a phone and he said that was his "dial-up"...not sure what that meant. Now, he did give me his number which is a UK number but I could not get through. So basically what you see from his header is that he is in Africa using some sort of system there to email me?

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:48 pm

This guy is slick. Do a google search on "GRANGE FOUNDATION", and you find several members of this foundation in campuses all around America, it seems. So that part of it looks at least plausable, until you get to this:

Quote:

Email: [email protected]

That SCREAMS scammer. If this is the email to a non-profit organization, it seems like it should come from the national Grange foundation headquarters website (www.nationalgrange.org) or one of their branches (myway.com not being one of them). Not to mention, "Elron Grange" is a name that doesn't seem to be associated with these people (I didn't look too deep there though).

Many times scammers will tell victims they represent or work/volunteer for legit charities and organizations. Proceed with caution.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 35

Froz, I did do a google on the name of the foundation and also only found what you did. I will check the site you had posted there. Why would he continue to speak to me, charm me after I had told him I had no money to donate and such and was in a "hole"? At this point I am charming him as well, to see where this will go, and so far all he wants is for us to finally meet and tell each other how much we care. He even said he felt like I was his soulmate! Hmmmm.....

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:00 pm

This is getting worse and worse. I would not trust him as far as I could throw him. Dump the bum - seriously. Where in "Great Britian" does he claim to live? Also, I happen to know the west London suburb of Southall quite well and......... well let's just say it's not the kind of place you'd find a legitimate charity HQ.

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:26 pm

flyakite: As others have said, you seem like you are looking for reasons to believe him. Some love scammers tend to keep victims on the hook for months without hinting at money - so it's no surprise he is still talking to you after you told him you're broke. If I were you, I'd just walk away. He has too many of your personal details. And there are just too many conicidences here for him to be legit. I might have told him something like "guess what, I just donated to the national Grange Foundation just like you said!" and see how he reacts. But really, just leaving is probably best.

Also - With your permission one of the experienced love-baiters here could give him a whirl and see what happens. But mainly, your best course of action would be to split.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 35

froz..i guess i got attached to him and find it hard to believe there are people who can hurt others or use them for their own selfish ways. I guess I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I know where this is leading too. Yes, if someone wants to charm him, and see what he does that will be fine. Most likely he will ask how they found him because I did have a friend who Im'd him he asked her how did she find him and she told him through Yahoo registry. He told her he was busy talking with his g/f and goodbye. Let me know what happens

Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 35

Gnasner, he told me his mom lives in Southhall and he lives in Manchester.

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:28 pm

Romance scammers are the lowest form of scum as far as I'm concerned for exactly the reasons you're giving us here. They don't tempt you with money, they play with your heart. If you were to ask me right now if I thought he was genuine or a scammer I'd say scammer. So many parts of his story you've said so far say scammer to me. Born in one country, but now in Africa. IP address showing up as Nigeria. Lagos (scammer central). Asking for money. Have you asked him how to pay the money? I'd bet Western Union or Moneygram would come into it somewhere along the way. As for being kind to you, that's exactly what they do. They play on your trust for them. I had one scammer offer to move here to look after my "disabled" character. They'll tell you anything that'll make you give them money at the end of their scam.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 9

tell him to tell you were in manchester......even get a postcode etc and i will check it out Wink

I could be wrong but that picture looks a bit photoshoped to me given the black line along his left arm (right on the pic)

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:24 pm

Had a quick search for any details, but not found much. 1 thing that did pop up is an address a few doors down from the Grange Foundation address (given earlier) is a known address of a romance scammer.

10 Toyin street is featured on this website, about a fifth down the screen (You'll have to scroll down a bit).

http://www.datingnmore.com/fraud/scam_addresses.htm

Not really sure if that means any thing or not, as I couldn't find a map or anything of that road, don't think google earth has gotten that far yet.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 35

I spoke with him this morning and he said he was going to get all the correct address information for me of this Church in UK that donations can go to. Lets see if they do.

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:50 pm

Get an address and a landline phone number (mobile won't do) an email address and preferably a website too. You've said the church/charity HQ is in Southall which happens to be where his mother lives too. I know you really want to believe this guy but please be very cautious.

I also agree about the suss photo. What's that strange blanked out white triangle in the bottom left corner?

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