I'm so proud

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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:14 pm

@EgyptKah:
I'm impressed and flattered by your post. You actually took the time to read and consider what was said,then put forth a very convincing
argument in favor of your position. Most people would have been happy to simply call me an ass-hole and leave it at that. Smile

It says to me that you cared enough to take the time to THINK for yourself and then form your own opinion based on the facts as you see
them. BRAVO ! Let me apologize for coming off as the un-caring jerk that you must think me to be, I give you my word, it's not what it looks like. If you'll give me a minute, I'll try to explain myself before the lynch mob arrives.
em�pa�thy (�m�pe-th�) noun 1.Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.
I've got a TON of empathy, I've got more empathy than you could shake a stick at. It's just that people have found so many new and creative ways of causing each other pain and suffering, I've had to start prioritizing the distribution of my "sympathy" stock-pile. I've had to limit it to those people who for whatever reason, because it varies with each instance, can't "get over it " and move on like the victims of a fraud or similar financial crime. See, no matter what fraud or property based crime it is that they fall victim to, they can still recoup their loss and learn from the experience, hopefully they'll come away from it a little bit wiser and will share their story with others to prevent a similar fraud / crime happening again to someone else. That doesn't mean that I support, condone, justify,ect.,ect., financial or property based crime o.k., it just means that
"hey, nobody died, get over it and move on.". You see, I didn't suddenly wake up one day and start thinking that way, and I certainly wasn't born without a heart, but I've seen more than my share of "real" tragedies in this little life, some that would make most people sick. I won't bore you with a lot details, but just a few general examples of what I mean; What about the 2 year old in a Chicago housing project that hasn't eaten for 2 or 3 days because his mother is out smoking crack somewhere and has forgotten that she even has a child that depends on her to feed him ? That's a REAL crime isn't it. What about the people on 9/11 that went to work at their perfectly legal day jobs and got themselves burned alive before lunch-time? That's a REAL crime ain't it ? What about the little boy that doesn't understand why daddy won't be playing ball with him anymore, because he's not coming home from Iraq ever again, or if he is lucky enough to come home, he still can't play like they used to because daddy lost his legs over there and now he barely gets around himself. That's a CRIME if I ever seen one. Maybe the little girl that has to watch her daddy come in from work each day and drink himself stupid and beat her mommy half to death, and then to top it off, molest her before he goes to bed ? Those are REAL crimes wouldn't you say ? What about Mrs.Jones that lives in the nursing home , she's 84 years old and raised 3 kids. They never come to visit her though, she ain't seen her grand children for a year and never hears a peep from anybody but the nurses who care for her. That's pretty sad I'd say.
I could go on for days, but I won't. I just wanted people to get an idea of what a REAL crime is and why I just can't see myself falling to pieces because
some idiot sent another idiot in an internet cafe in Nigeria a $1,000 for the map to a box of hidden treasure that never existed ! When I put him along side of the people listed above, he just doesn't qualify for one of my limited "sympathy grants", they've already been allocated to those people and the millions like them around the world. Now I don't mean the senior citizens that sold their home pursuing some conmans fantasy and now live with their children because they're broke from the experience. They would be included in the list of REAL crimes as well, I'm talking about Mr. Highly Educated, I'm so smart, could even be a scam-baiter, type of person that falls for a hot stock tip or a quick return on his investment or similar financial ripp-off. Yeah, it sucks and all, but hey stupid, wise up ! There's a lot of REAL tragedy on this planet and the vast majority of it seems to be going un-noticed or not given the high-priority attention that I think it deserves. I hope this helps you to understand my perspective on the Mugu's and their silly little fake websites that accompany their ridiculous emails. Compared to the people I listed above, they ain't shit !
( pardon my French )

Anyway, I really do appreciate your taking the time to at least consider what I said earlier. It proves that at least one other person out there is thinking and not just jumping on the old " Peter Long is an ass-hole that hates decent people and loves criminals " band-wagon. Smile

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:36 pm

Susiefaye, you deserve to feel proud for your efforts. Whatever it may or may not have cost the Mugus it is never wrong to do the right thing, especially when the alternative is to go on doing nothing along with the vast majority of the world today.

Inconveniencing those 419 scumbags a little or a lot is a good thing to do in my book.

And the fact your SO has told you how proud he is of you is the icing on the cake - it's one of the things that makes this crazy pastime of ours worthwhile.

To you:

clapping

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:33 pm

Yeah Susiefaye, having someone feel proud of your efforts and accomplishments is the ultimate. You should feel proud.

Buzzy

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:46 pm

@ Susiefaye: You do have every right to be proud of what you've done. PLEASE don't think that I'm trying to belittle your contribution in the fight against 419 crimes at all, because I'm really not. You actually DID something and that's great, it's too bad more people don't.
I just thought I'd take a minute to remind people that even though 419 crime is a bad thing, there are still many more WORSE things in life and we can't forget about them either. Just trying to keep things in perspective, that's all. Congratulations on your victory and keep up the good work ! Smile

( I had an extra smiley, thought you deserved it )

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:56 pm

DaMouse wrote:

Finally, something men and women can do together ... besides have sex.

no scambaiting until after marriage!

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:43 pm

"no scambaiting until after marriage!"

Guess I'm a real slut then, I'll bait anything that walks !

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:50 am

I think everyone here should be very proud to be a part of the 'eater.
We do the world a service just to be here, creating some fuss about 419 and killing off banks, baiting and frustrating lads, wasting their time and money, making them humiliate themselves, like they have humiliated so many others.
Every time we bait a lad, we make them more and more nervous about the real victims as well, and the possibility of them never getting to the stage where someone loses their life savings is greater.

Some people are ungrateful, and that's life, but it's worth it even so.
When I need some motivation, I just think of what one of my friends said a week or so ago; "You're like some kind of Superman...has a normal dayjob, and then goes after criminals at night!" Laughing

Supermen and -women, that's what you all are, people!

-M-

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:20 am

@Susie - Go YOU! Be proud of yourself! And be proud that you have such a neat boyfriend too. Very Happy

@Peter - I hope our paths never cross in real life.

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:03 pm

Yeah...uhm...I'm normally a very polite and if i dare say so myself, pleasent guy to be around. I do my best to keep it that way.

But this is quite enough.
Peter, there are "REAL" crimes involved here. People lose their life savings, they get hurt, they even lose their lives, more often than not to their own hand! The shame, the anger, the humiliation, the poverty and wounds that follow being ripped off in such a way is more than they can handle, and that is why we DO what we DO!
Even if it is greed that drives some of the victims in the beginning, it mostly will not be that in the end. It will be the feverish WISH that somehow, the whole nightmare will resolve itself into the worryless future they dreamed of when the first e-mail had dumped into their mailbox. Their hopes and dreams are at stake, and ANYONE would do ANYTHING to keep them alive - if only for a little longer.
You talk about "real" crimes. I might be putting words in your mouth, but it seems that in your ideal society, police would issue an IQ-test to victims when they appear to file a complain, and if they were too SMART, they would be shown out with a not-so-friendly "Your fault - you should have known better" remark?? "Shouldn't have walked down that street, f*uck3r, you're too smart for that! Should have know that dude down there would take a friggin' dump in your MOUTH!"
I think you, though, would be more than qualified for a bit more attention.

Me and my sister, we raised ourself, mostly, with our mom going slowly crazy due to a brain disease and our father a thousand miles away and not giving a crap, mostly. I've never had much money, still don't, but I do okay. But the point is, I score 160 on IQ tests, more than most else, I'm teaching myself Russian and when I'm done, I'll speak 6 languages and plan to start learning Italian and French. I know how to behave around other people and I can talk to everyone. I taught myself the ettiquette I know, by reading, and watching others. That means I also have a little EQ, if you know what that means.
But I'll tell you something Paul, you little A$$h0l3, when I got my first 419-email about four years ago, I thought I'd hit the friggin' jackpot. Somewhere, there was a God who actually gave a flyin' fu*k. I answered that e-mail, and I spent a long time trying to get the money together, but I couldn't (I have too much pride to ask my friends for help) and the scammer gave up on me.
And now I hear you calling me STUPID?? You had better count me in on TexanCSI's comment; you better hope we never meet in person.

If you don't think the victims are worth your time, get the h3ll off the forum. I spend much of my free time doing this, and you're pi$$ing on what I do in my spare time. I spend my waking hours protecting others from crime and trouble, from early morning to late night, sometimes up to 18 hours per day, and your pi$$ing on that as well, you ignoramus.

Yeah. Take a look at what TeanCSI said again. Write it down, and count me in. I'm so fu*king angry right now, my hands are shaking.

-M-

Guest

You said it a little better than I did, Murdochk Smile

Quote:

See, no matter what fraud or property based crime it is that they fall victim to, they can still recoup their loss and learn from the experience

When a fraud or property based crime is committed, there are losses that can NEVER be recouped. You know what? I'll tell you my story of loss. You'll probably say it isn't important, but what the heck. I know there are people reading this (thanks for the PM's guys) who have similar stories of loss that they don't feel comfortable sharing.

I used to work at a car audio place. I had a demonstration car. I installed the car audio myself. I put blood, sweat and tears into that car audio system, and it was one of the best performing ones in this state. I also installed an alarm system - not a cheap one, but a *good* one. Everything was just fine for a couple of years - people came into work who had their systems stolen but I never thought it would happen to me.

Then one day, my sister came over to pick me up, we had this huge big scary driveway on a hill and my car was at the bottom of it. She drove up the drive, I got in the car, and when we got to the bottom I noticed something was strange about my car. I didn't know what, though. Then I noticed one of the seatbelts was hanging out of the car, so I told my sister to park so I could fix it. It wasn't until I got closer that I saw the wires hanging out the door, and I knew right away that someone had got in there.

How, you ask? Well, the alarm system had a battery backup system. The police found they had disconnected the battery, and one of them must have been lying underneath the car with some kind of blanket or something pressed into the alarm siren so nobody would hear it. They took over $7,000 worth of stuff. I thought I knew who might have done it, and it took all the energy my now-exhusband had to stop me from marching over there with a gun - at that point, it made sense to me. They hurt me, I should hurt them. Clearly I was psychologically damaged by it. Sad

(By the way, this was about 9 years ago, I was only 20, so forgive me for saying that, I have changed a lot since but I am trying to say how I felt then)

It took me a YEAR of wrangling with the insurance company to get $2,000 back. I quit my job because I just couldn't handle it - people coming in and saying their car was broken into would have me in tears. I got depressed. I figured hey, what's the point of owning nice things if people are just going to take them away? It broke up my marriage because my now-ex-husband didn't really seem very concerned about it all - and then he went and bought the house we were living in without even consulting me, when I just wanted to move away from there. All I wanted to do, for about a year, was curl up into a ball and hide from the world.

So yes, I recouped my financial loss!!! No, not even close, but $2,000 is plenty when I had spent $7,000, right? How do you like those apples? Hey, why don't YOU give me $7,000 and I will give you $2,000 and see if you feel it is a fair deal. Insurance companies have so many exclusions etc I was lucky to get the $2,000.

The losses you're not even thinking about is the loss of my faith in people, the loss of my feeling of safety, the loss of my ability to walk away from my car without checking three or four times that it is really locked, the loss of my sleep because for at least a year afterwards, I would wake up in the middle of the night and have to go check on the car, or the home door locks. The loss of me owning nice things, because rather than replace the car I sold it for $150 (it was worth probably 6,000 but I just wanted it out of my sight and at that point money didn't matter to me) and didn't even own a car at all for 6 years - my other half had one and we shared it. Even, the loss of me driving, because since then I have only rarely felt in the mood to drive a car. It's just not the same for me without my stereo that I worked so hard on. The loss of my marriage. The loss of my extended family that marriage had created. I really miss his family, but they're not allowed to associate with me! Sad

The loss of my two cats, because he kept them and wouldn't let me have them.

Aww, poor little EK, huh? No, I bet you're not thinking that. You're thinking -

Quote:

"hey, nobody died, get over it and move on."

Well, I am sorry, but that experience changed me as a person, and as such I can feel for other people who are in similar situations. And, FYI, not name calling you or anything, but everything you've said in this thread gives me the general impression that you are a chocolate starfish. I am sorry to say it, but that's how I feel.

And sorry for sharing that dismal story with you all, but I felt it was necessary to show how I truly feel about this. I know there are people here who had their homes broken into, which is also a very nasty experience. My guess is, Peter, that you have never had such a loss, or you would not speak so lightly about it.

Cheers,
EK

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:36 pm

Yes we need to warn people about the scam but there are suckers born every minute and some people just don't want to know it's a scam.

They want the money. And nothing anyone can say will prevent that.

Yes closing down the fake web sites is a good thing. The crooks spend time and money setting them up. It frustrates them to do all that for nothing. They hate it.

We have to fight the fraud on ALL fronts if we stand any chance of kicking the crooks off OUR internet. There is of course no way to prevent all crime in any media / forum whatever and there will always be crooks on the internet. I fact there are far worse (if you ask me) than the Lads from Lagos. But the Lads can be a bit of fun as far as crooks go. As long as they make money they will keep spaming out. We know that. If it becomes unprofitable they will stop.

Already we are seeing changes. When I started as a baiter every second mail was from one Abacha or another. I haven't seen a "cattle medicine" scam in a couple of years. Now the fake check is all the rage. Car sellers seem to have got the message, well mostly. So It's hotels at least one crook is trying now. The old tried and true are still out there and there are more people online to spam and scam these days. New possible victims every day.

But it's harder for the crooks now compared to 5 years ago. Mostly because people know about the scam due to efforts of people like Postmaster at Scamo and people like you lot in here. Not to mention many others.

It's not about the "best way" it's about ALL the ways. Keep up the pressure. Close down the sites. Make 8 out of 10 replies to a scam be a bait. Oh yes the crooks are getting the hang of baiters. But to them it's a numbers game. They only need 1 of the 10 to send money and it's fat city for them. And that's out of thousands of e-mail addies spamed.

But you know all that.

NO we are not "winning". YES we do make a difference. If you knew what I know you would understand that many. many people have been saved from sending many, many, many thousands of dollars to the crooks.

That means families saved and less profit to the crooks.

Yes I have done all that. But you guys and gals are more than just me.

Many more. So get back to work and fight the scam on all fronts. Surprised

)

Hey Zen did you really get 200 odd fake web sites shut down. Wow that's fantastic. I can only claim a few. That I personally did. Alone. Maybe 20? certainly less than 30. Maybe only 15 to 18 or so? I have helped with others though. Here is one I posted in another thread. I didn't shut it down and nobody has paid for it in years. But it still amuses me.

http://euroworldservicebv.1colony.com

I used to know a guy called Zen in TSG.

I don't suppose that's you.

OK I can't resist it, a story.

One dopey victim was sent a fake check. I told her it was fake and not to send money to the crooks. She didn't do that. She took the check to the bank, drew out the money and gave it to her sister who was having a hard time. The sister then did well. But Purple Pattie (yes that was her name) was investigated by the cops and the FBI and complained to me that "they were treating her like a criminal". Geeze all she did was knowingly pass a bad check. Then steal the money off the bank.

Education is one thing, greed is another. Telling people about the scam is not enough. Shuting down the websites is not enough. Baiting the crooks is not enough.

But if we do all the above and a bit more as well we can and do make a difference. All we have to do is get the profit margin the crooks enjoy below what it is worth to them.

That is possible.

Not easy but possible.

I'm working on it.

So are you it seems.

Can I say WE are working on it?

Bazza

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:37 pm

Peter Long wrote:

"no scambaiting until after marriage!"

Guess I'm a real slut then, I'll bait anything that walks !

Really? I'm surprised you can be bothered. Shouldn't you be out fighting REAL crimes instead?

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:39 pm

Empathy without action is simply empathy. I have a lot of empathy to the situations that you posted too, as do the vast majority of people.

I also have empathy towards the victims of scams; however I am doing something about it. Not a lot, but I smile when I think of my victories.

I would love to hear how you have committed time and resources to help right the situations you empathize with. If you haven�t done anything then your effect is the same as pub chatter� "Somebody should do something about that".

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:59 pm

Much like EK, I can attest that crimes take away something a lot more important than money or property. It's the sense of safety and trust that hurts. My grandparents have had their house burgled twice. Both times, they lost only a minimal amount of property. One got scared off in the middle of the break-in when my grandfather pulled into the driveway, so all they lost was the back door glass (Which the idiot could have avoided breaking if he had just checked the f#%ing door. It was unlocked.), and the dimwit also scratched the lock on my grandmother's cedar chest, trying to pick the lock with a pair of scissors. This was also, ironically, unlocked. In fact, the thief came out on the totally wrong end of the stick, as he lost a rather nice flashlight (which my grandfather still has) while running away, and was arrested in about ten minutes flat. It was mildy absurd and funny afterwards, but it didn't mean my grandparents didn't feel violated and unsafe for a while.

Several years later, we dropped my grandmother off after attending church's evening service. She does not drive. There is no car there at the moment, even if she did drive. (We live right down the road, what passes for next door in the country.) Moments after we walk in the front door, we get a frantic call from her. She's walked in to find that the drawers are open, the flour has been dumped out, and she hears the back door slam as someone runs away. Again, no real loss of property, but you damned well better believe we all considered what this ransacking a$$hole might have done to my grandmother if she had seen his face. Just a few seconds might have been the difference between getting a scare or getting killed. Yes, the doors were locked. You tell me that those break-ins were "nothing" and I would feel compelled to bash your face in. Being violated like that is not "nothing".

Being "taken", even if it's your own fault, makes you feel worthless. Dirty. Used. No one deserves that.

My personal opinion, boils down to this.

If you have no sympathy whatsoever for the victims, you're just in scambaiting for your own amusement, which is fine, but you're not baiting to full potential. Or worse, for the pumping of your own ego. If the latter, you likely shouldn't be scambaiting. Victims range from the goodhearted but naive to the greedy and willfully blind. None of them deserve to be stolen from. Even the ones who make me rant and rave and insult them in my own head because someone warned them, and still they carry on. (By the way, many of the latter turn out to have severe mental and/or emotional problems that account for the irrational behavior, I've found. Being unstable or sick or on medication doesn't mean you deserve to be victimized, either.) More to the point, none of the scammers deserve the payoff.

And as a somewhat unrelated aside... more attention to using the return key occasionally, and less on working in the maximum amount of smilies per square inch would mean more people reading your posts. It's extremely hard to decipher the big Giant Paragraph O' Doom.

[/thread hijack]

@Susiefaye, Does he have a brother?

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:45 pm

@ Anyone: Oh well, looks like another classic case of the point being missed or mis-understood. Not like it's the first time,but it will be the last. So, for anyone that was too busy having their knee-jerk emotional reaction and didn't bother fully reading or trying to understand my previous postings, I'll repeat myself once more for free...after that, I'm afraid that I'll have to start charging for the trouble. See, I don't get paid to offer up new perspectives and different ways of looking at things here, it's just a hobby that I thought might somehow help the greater good in the end. But it seems that people are content to continue treating the symptoms and ignore the disease. I'm sorry to have confused everyone with my radical thoughts & ideas. Please accept my apologies, like I said , it won't happen again. O.k. here's goes the repetition: Crime is bad...people shouldn't steal...scambaiting is good...I do it myself...shutting down fake banks is good...I do it myself...blah,blah,...that's enough for free, anymore is going to cost ya. Thanks for having such terrific reactions, you've provided un-deniable proof to any of the numerous "trolls" that may be visiting this board that their jobs are secure and they can continue earning their ill gotten money far into the future. All they have to do is read these posting and it'll become crystal clear to them that people aren't about to change their approach to combating their criminal behavior anytime soon, so it will still be "business as usual" for the foreseeable future. And as for all those "real" crimes that I mentioned, they'll still continue un-checked as well, isn't that great ! We can all keep doing the same thing, in the same way, and remain oblivious as to why nothing is getting any better with the world??? Man, I feel so much better. What was I thinking anyway? Trying to get people to see that crime is just an out-ward expression of the much deeper troubles in the criminals life and that the only way to eliminate it, is to find and fix what is causing their criminal behavior in the first place. Boy, do I feel stupid. Trying to engage in a non-emotional ,intellectual discussion regarding the problems that people from all countries have in common. What a dope !
Sorry guys....hey I got an idea. Let's go get some more naked Mugu pictures ! Yeah, it won't do anything to effectively stop 419 fraud, but hell, it's FUN ! I know, I know, after that, we can all write our Congressman and Senators and have them pass even MORE laws to stop crime. Of course, the criminals will just ignore them as well, since we haven't eliminated the underlaying cause of their criminal behavior, but
hey,..it'll make us feel like we're doing everything that we can to stop crime and that's what really matters. Who cares if it works or not right? The important thing is that we're doing SOMETHING ! Smile

( still giving out those smileys, had a new litter born this morning )

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:51 pm

@mrsbean--no, just a little sister..... Very Happy

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:03 pm

@Peter: Tecniques relating to baiting is discussed everywhere on the forum. Read up on it, and you'll know why we have them stand naked with a fish or whatever.

As for your attitude, I have nothing more to say. It seems you don't read what others say, even though you think we should read your ranting.
I'm a bit saddened by your lack of willingness to get your mind around things and the way and for what reason they are done, but now you're regressing into nothing but a troll yourself.

-M-

Guest

No, the point wasn't missed. If you can't see how what you were writing got you the responses it did, that's your issue.

Cheers,
EK

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:44 pm

Peter, this is a forum for people combating 419 by baiting the perpertrators. If you want passionate talk about any other topic, please go register in the respective forums. Right now... your troll index is near maximum.

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:52 pm

Murdockh wrote:

As for your attitude, I have nothing more to say. It seems you don't read what others say, even though you think we should read your ranting.
I'm a bit saddened by your lack of willingness to get your mind around things and the way and for what reason they are done, but now you're regressing into nothing but a troll yourself.

-M-

I DO read what other people are saying. That's why I felt that a NEW perspective might be what's needed. Not only stop this, but all crime. You see, what is currently being done isn't working, is it ? You tell me, has crime gone away ? Perhaps I missed the news story, I have been awful busy earning my honest living and haven't really kept up. Of course, like I said earlier though, I'm a big, fat capitalist pig, I went to the trouble of getting a quality education ( thanks Mom & Dad ), and now I'm PAID for devoting my time and efforts to "problem solving". And since my latest donation in this forum has only garnered me the hatred of it's members, ranging from the quaint "You're a chocolate star-fish" to the rather ominous sounding "I hope we never meet in real life". * Just a quick side note to whoever wrote that particular little retort. I'm a proud American that fully avails myself of my Constitutional right to "keep and bear arms", so, please, let's keep the testosterone to a minimum o.k., this isn't a bar, I think we can all talk without resorting to threats, no matter how thinly veiled they may be. Now, where was I ? Oh yeah, problem solving. The only way to stop crime, any crime, is through education. You have to not only educate the victim as to how they might prevent it from happening to them again. But, you must also, educate the perpetrator. You have to teach them that what they are doing is wrong and then, you have to make the resources available to them that will allow them to cease their criminal activity and start earning a living HONESTLY. You can't simply lock them up and hope that when they get out they'll be better people. It just doesn't work that way. They'll still have the underlaying causes of their criminal behavior, lack of education, drug dependency, ect.,ect.. Only now, they'll be even more bitter towards society due to their incarceration.
That was all I was trying to point out people. What is currently being done is all well and good, but it won't permanently solve the problem.
We need to ALL try and think of ways to solve the real problems that cause criminal behavior in the first place. Then, it'll go the way of the 8-track tape player and the Polio virus. And now, I have to get back to earning an honest living.

Guest

But all of that isn't what you were saying, not at all. Go back and re-read the thread, and have another think about it. And, me saying you were a chocolate starfish is a lot more polite than using the word you yourself used.

Cheers,
EK

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:02 pm

If I throw a stick, will you leave?

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:16 pm

Scammers scam because it's profitable. We work to make it not profitable and have a bit of fun on the side, when appropriate. If they aren't making money, they're forced to find something else to do. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Getting at the root causes of why scamming is more profitable than holding a "real" job is something the people of these corrupt countries and some governments are going to have to tackle. We can't do it for them.

Sorry, but we can't do much about foreign governments, social conditions in countries we don't happen to live in, or the indifference of law enforcement where we don't pay taxes I don't think instituting a "hug-a-lad" program is going to fix things. And dragging in all of the world's "other" problems has nothing to do with the subject at hand and only muddies the waters.

Once again, it's not your "radical thoughts and ideas" that are causing misunderstanding, assuming there is any. Try formatting your posts in such a way that they don't cause headache. Paragraphs and full stops are your friends. I'm wont to ignore your posts a great deal of the time, for the same reason I avoid reading lad mail in depth. It hurts my eyes and gives me a cramp trying to figure out what you're on about.

See, thing is, we've heard these "radical new thoughts and ideas" before. Repeatedly. After a while, they're not so radical any more. And I've only been here since October and a decent lurkage period prior. During which I read the forums and pretty well figured out what the forum rules and attitudes were and what was likely to get me hoisted on a pike. Which explains why we tend to get rather pissed off when we hear it yet again, and again, and again, and are still expected to fall at the poster's feet and worship them for showing us "the light".

If you don't like our methods, or don't want to bother to find out why we go about things the way we do, that's fine. You're welcome to bait however you like. Have long discussions with your lads about why they went into scamming, and the hidden resentment they have against their parents or white Europeans or self-hatred or whatever. Just don't expect that everyone here will agree with your attitudes or your methods, either.

Like EK said, if you can't see why a great many of us responded in this manner, you haven't been soaking up much of the forum atmosphere in your time here. We do try to disagree respectfully when we disagree, but it's a bit of a strain when you seem to keep willfully missing our point while complaining we're missing yours. No number of Giant Paragraphs O' Doom just slopping over with sarcasm are likely to make me say, "Why, yes, I see it now! Instead of being at all concerned about even the victims we have to sic the police on in order to warn off, we should be discussing, for the millionth time, the entire history of countries with rampant scamming problems, and addressing the entire socio-economic and political structure of the globe, trying to address every single problem in the world and make the world a better place, rather than directly trying to hit the scammers where it hurts most. Their egos and their wallets."

Not to be rude, but if you don't like our reactions, there's the door. No need to stick around with us poor plebes still living in the caves if you can't enlighten us.

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:47 pm

Harry Covair wrote:

If you haven�t done anything then your effect is the same as pub chatter� "Somebody should do something about that".

Peter Long wrote:

Now, where was I ? Oh yeah, problem solving. The only way to stop crime, any crime, is through education. You have to not only educate the victim as to how they might prevent it from happening to them again. But, you must also, educate the perpetrator. You have to teach them that what they are doing is wrong and then, you have to make the resources available to them that will allow them to cease their criminal activity and start earning a living HONESTLY.

Still waiting to read what you have done. I want to read all about the habitual criminals you have set straight with the resources you have made available to them.

#echo ${LIFE}
Utopia
#setenv LIFE reality

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:53 pm

Quote:

Now, where was I ? Oh yeah, problem solving. The only way to stop crime, any crime, is through education. You have to not only educate the victim as to how they might prevent it from happening to them again. But, you must also, educate the perpetrator. You have to teach them that what they are doing is wrong and then, you have to make the resources available to them that will allow them to cease their criminal activity and start earning a living HONESTLY.

Come to work at my place, you'll see how well criminals "cease their criminal activity" and "start earning a living honestly" with resources and education available to them. I bet Browade and Ima_copp will back me up on this.

And since you have the problem of crime solved, why don't you move on to solving the problem of world hunger? Preferably at some other board.