How many people do you think scammers have to message...

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 15 Aug 2012 Posts: 7

to actually manage to successfully trick someone into giving them money? I didn't think ANYONE would be dumb enough to send money (often thousands of dollars) to a complete stranger in another country, who approaches you over the internet, but nope, I googled it and saw LOTS of news stories about people who lost their life savings to online scammers.

I hope that most people are not that dumb and I would like to think that most people, even if they are not initially aware it is a scam, would cease contact immediately with someone once asked for money... but I don't know.

On average, how many people do you think scammers have to message and chat to before they find someone who will give them money? maybe 1 person in every 100 sends them money? 1 in every 500?

No way of knowing for certain, but I am interested... what do you think?

*** BANNED *** Joined: 26 Jul 2012 Posts: 1123

Just one. The right one with the right method of scamming or the right scam format. With so many different types of scams out there one has to be believable to everyone.... including you and me. FYI I have been scammed once trying to buy a computer online on fleabay. It happens. You pick yourself up and move on hopefully with a lesson learned. There is a format for everyone.

As for the more laughable formats I will agree that is takes a special person to get hit by those but why else would they be still in circulation is not profitable. You see that term 'dumb' is a bit derogatory in my mind if you happen to look into some of the victims of those scams. I would hardly call the elderly person suffering from some form of dementia dumb and the same would go with someone suffering a mental handicap of some sort, say aspergers or downs or any other number of handicaps out there. I would just tend to call them handicapped. Then there are the people who are new to computers. The elderly in a brave and new world, those in a developing country learning new technology that could help bring business and money to them and their fledgling country, or perhaps those that take to online dating and become attached and emotionally manipulated.

There is a scam for everyone. As for the numbers, hard to say but there is a reason a lot of the more laughable scam formats are blanketed out in mass as it may actually be 1 in 500 that bite. For the 5 minutes it took to blanket out a scam format with a spamming script though, all it takes is one over the course of time though. That is all that matters and why some choose to fight back.

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:29 am

Somewhere between 1% and 3% I reckon 'ordinaryday' depending on the type of scam they're doing and how they're working it.

I enjoy examining the psychology behind scamming as often the tactics the scammer uses work for baiting though, of course, I'm not angling for money.

In trying to hook ad scammers I don't want to go as far as posting fake ads myself or applying to buy things that I judge are posted by scammers. By knowing how the scammer works I can avoid doing that and jump in on them knowing they won't see my approach as being by a baiter. I operate as they do and take advantage of the fact that they don't know who they've contacted.

Even at a rate of 1% the scammer makes a very good living and wont have to work, so any economy that has scamming as a major component is virtually a zombie economy. The young and enthusiastic workers see it as the most lucrative option and fraud and deceit become an accepted part of everyday life.

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:41 am

I agree with Joker on the "dumb" part. There are many victims who are fully capable and well educated people. They just met the wrong dirtbag online (Or elsewhere) and got their life set into a turmoil. Some scammers are VERY patient and will just chat up their victims for months before they ask for anything. They sometimes start small and work their way up to thousands. Before the victim ever realizes they've been duped it's already too late. Some work in Gangs and will start to deprive their victims of sleep. Lack of sleep can break someone's will to resist down making them more vulnerable.

Baiting Guru Joined: 27 Mar 2011 Posts: 21158

I got an ASEM from a lad the other day with a whole list of CC addy's. I think some may have been baiters but the rest are uncertain. I did not bothering counting but there are at least 100. They do try to stay under the SPAM radar when they mail but then a gang may have more than one lad bombing addresses for the rest.

Victims are in no way dumb. The may be unaware or maybe even the right person has used that one thing they did not think of to con them. We all know Joker is not dumb and he was taken.

Blaming the victim is a wrong way to view this. Given the correct set of circumstances pretty much anyone could be taken in if they do not know.

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:21 pm

I recently had a pissed off lad (can't imagine why he was mad...maybe it was the money in his account that he lost when it was magically closed) decide to "get back at me" by using my baiter address as the "from" for one of his blasts.

I immediately had over 5,000 "undeliverable" messages in my spam folder, so that's just the addresses that were no good. These lads send a LOT of this crap!

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:41 am

Joker wrote:

... say aspergers or downs or any other number of handicaps out there....

Us "aspies" may be different, but we're far from mentally handicapped. I make a pretty good living annoying people in court. We'd probably be more likely to correct the lad's grammar and send that back to him. Very Happy

*** BANNED *** Joined: 26 Jul 2012 Posts: 1123

^ Sorry Rowan, no offense meant and I know what you mean by how capable people with Asperger's can be. In many areas they make 'normal' people look like blithering idiots when it comes to finding that niche or area of expertise.

I guess I am mainly trying to say if a scammer can see a way to take advantage of who we are at the core (God given abilities + beliefs) they will do it as they really have no conscience. They really do not care if grandma is in the early stages of dementia or Alzheimer's and not thinking straight. They will take the nest egg any old way they can get it.

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Posts: 949

If you haven't seen it yet, I strongly recommend watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeNFP6WZ-3k

It's a great example of how effective a patient scammer can be, carefully gaining his victim's trust for months before asking for any money.

And another great read here:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/05/15/060515fa_fact

Again, the victim was carefully worked from multiple angles, and at the end, even when facing prison time, wasn't totally convinced that the whole thing was a scam.

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:15 pm

By pure coincidence I've just watched that film rattlesnake linked to before reading this thread.

The film claims to be based on real events, but then they said that about 'The Amityville Horror', too. I can't find any record of the victim's name in any news article. (If it is true, it's tragic.)

Anyway, the victim in the film was an international broker. Surely such a person should be the most sensitive to how legit trade is done and sensitive to any warning signs?

And I also recently saw a clip on YT regarding a heart surgeon who was scammed. As I watched, I asked myself: "How can a school teacher like me be looking a a heart surgeon and thinking how dumb he is?"

But I guess the motto is; anyone can get caught.

Anyway, my guess at the original question is that maybe 1 in 1,000 gets hooked in. Tiny return, but still lucrative.

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:09 am

Joker wrote:

^ Sorry Rowan, no offense meant and I know what you mean by how capable people with Asperger's can be. In many areas they make 'normal' people look like blithering idiots when it comes to finding that niche or area of expertise.

I guess I am mainly trying to say if a scammer can see a way to take advantage of who we are at the core (God given abilities + beliefs) they will do it as they really have no conscience. They really do not care if grandma is in the early stages of dementia or Alzheimer's and not thinking straight. They will take the nest egg any old way they can get it.

No offense taken. Smile

**Spammer** Joined: 11 Mar 2013 Posts: 2

yes it can be 1 out of 100 depending on how good the scammer is but anyone can become a victim for sure bec its hard to identify specially if its a woman scamming that tries to get u hooked up with the fake words of love. just like this one scam article of a guy victim that ive read from *Snip*

Admin edit. Please don't link to other scam sites - Slightly.

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:39 am

I guess they do a "mixed strategy".
You know that when it comes to leaving descendency animals either 1) Hatch millions of eggs hoping that a couple will survive or 2) Have little descendents but make sure all of them grow up to adults. Lads do both, they send their formats to thousands of people but take great care of those who respond. In fact they don't need many paying victims to live a life beyond the wildest dreams of his countrymen.
See what I mean.
GDP per capita in Nigeria was $1,490 USD as of 2011. In Ghana, $1,670 so imagine. A scammer with two paying victims can double or triple what an Ordinary Joe makes in a year in a matter of months.
So, even if one out of 1,000 potential mugus actually sends any money, they can make quite a good life of it, more if they're good at their job and don't let them go.

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Posts: 1066

If you take some time to bait these guys, you'll soon discover that a lad will identify whatever your weakness is and exploit the hell out of it. Victims are most certainly not dumb. Vulnerable but not dumb.

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:15 pm

there is no aspect of the human mind that cannot be seen as a vulnerability. Whatever your scammer is can be used against him. Once you've done this a few times and sent them round the pole with frustration, you will see how easy it is for them to get money out of victims. The methods are identical.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 01 May 2013 Posts: 3

I'm interrested in their conversion rates as well.

From reading some of the baiting succes-stories, my guess is a lot of these lads play the numbers game. Using some guessed numbers:

Let's say the average victim loses 10K$, then the scammer can figure out how many replies to spam he needs, how many communications/emails he needs and thus how many spam he needs to send to earn an income.

For instance, to get 1 victim, he needs to receive 100 replies. To get 100 replies, he needs to send out to 5000 emailadresses. Take into account the time he spends on massmailing / replying, and you can figure out a scammers hourly income. Considering the wages in the countries of origin, my guess even scammers with bad conversion rates, a 'buckshot' approach, (need a lot of spam and replies to get a victim) still make a locally competitive 'salary'.

Personally, I'm more worried of the example in the youtube link by Rattlesnake. A more targetted approach. Seems those scammers have quite a bit more intelligence and ability to establish a base of trust prior to ensnaring their victim. Most people are pretty suspicious by nature toward strangers, but a slower approach as in the youtube link can bring down a lot of those defenses.

Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:11 am

A dirtbag I seemed to have upset (musta been the bank accounts he lost) put me in the bogus "reply to" field for a few days. 11,000+ non-deliverables every day.

Wow.

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 577

Just my 2 cents.

I'm humbled to be part of this community.

There are some seriously smart peep here.

Then there are some who are just fooking abrasive but I won't go there.

Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:56 pm

The old style script had you sent (by people) the standard script and when you took the bait or they ran out of script, you were handed on to the next step on the ladder. Paying you did only with the "Boss" as it was to risky to have MG or WU info accessible for the lower ranks. Now they operate more alone as the availability of computers has improved and you stick with the same person the whole story.

Your question; as many as they can sent to improve their profit, they never have enough, that's why claiming their time works!

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