Are Western Union a Disgrace?

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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:40 pm

It's very apparent that WU is the preferred payment method of choice by lads. But my question is - with all the bad publicity surrounding Internet fraudsters and their connection with them, what are Western Union doing to disassociate themselves from their activities?
And if they are just happy to take people's money without imposing safeguards or showing some accountability, are they a disgrace?

Baiting Guru Joined: 27 Mar 2011 Posts: 21158

Maybe call that one painting with a wide brush. I just posted this a day or so back and I think they do what they can but some people are just hell bent on doing it anyway.

http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=227489

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:29 pm

Yes, that seems to be individual clerks taking it upon themselves to point out what potential victims are doing.
What I mean is, what are the WU bosses doing to help prevent misuse of their services?
Do you think they'd be happy if a clerk off their own back warned off a victim who was potentially about to pay thousands of dollars/ pounds/whatever and miss out on the commission?

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:24 pm

They're providing a service, but are not held to protect the public, it would be the right thing to do, but then do we sell cars to drunk drivers, weapons to criminals, drugs to addicts?
There is something as personal responsibility, if you try to take that away you might get responsible for their mistakes.
We still sell computers, provide the internet at a cost. We should ban those too then? Or supply/sell permits for it?

Once you start thinking that way, we'll all be sitting home, watching commercials on the TV, but who checks those?

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:15 am

No, you're straying off the point here.
Are Ford or any other car manufacturer renowned for selling cars to drunk drivers?
Imagine you are the big boss of Western Union.
It comes to your attention that your customers are regularly being scammed as a consequence of your lax procedures.
But you're still getting your commission from these transactions, so do you do nothing?
Maybe if you did tighten up your procedures a lot if commission from these deals would suddenly dry up though Confused

Like all firms, Western Union surely must still have a certain duty towards customer care.

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:47 am

I used WU once in my life and it worked. That was a long time ago but I am assuming things haven't changed that much....

This confuses me ( I am easily confused, however):

Quote:

Do you think they'd be happy if a clerk off their own back warned off a victim who was potentially about to pay thousands of dollars/ pounds/whatever and miss out on the commission?

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

We all know Scammers like using this service but it is a service that is used by 'Normal' people too.

I am not in a position to defend WU nor do I feel it it necessary to do so. If I understood their policies and procedures or ( perish the thought) worked for them, maybe I come up with something a bit more poignant but as it stands we have a company delivering a service that is rather useful.

Speaking of Fords...I have owned a Taurus, Ranger, Explorer and a F150. Yup I seem to be a Ford guy. Nobody has EVER asked me if I had a drivers licence! Lucky thing I guess because I have never had one....

Certain people should not have such and I am one of them. It never stopped the salesman from taking my money though.

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Posts: 1066

Quote:

No, you're straying off the point here. Are Ford or any other car manufacturer renowned for selling cars to drunk drivers?

This statement seems to imply that WU is used exclusively by criminals and their victims and serves no other purpose. This is just plain false. I've used WU to have money wired to me from a family member. Emergencies happen. WU exists for people in emergency situations.

Scammer abuse WU, yes. They also abuse banks, free web mail, VOIP, etc. As long as there is technology, there will be assholes that abuse it.

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:22 am

Quote:

No, you're straying off the point here.
Are Ford or any other car manufacturer renowned for selling cars to drunk drivers?
Imagine you are the big boss of Western Union.
It comes to your attention that your customers are regularly being scammed as a consequence of your lax procedures.
But you're still getting your commission from these transactions, so do you do nothing?

Yep nothing, just like the police or the politicians. Legally I don't have to do anything, so we don't do anything.
We're in the business of making money, just like the ammo factory, the booze factory and the tobacco guys.
And if I don't take your money when I can, someone else will.

Due to this strange hobby of mine I have visited many WU offices in Canada(BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan) and most of them are a simple franchise in say a Wal Mart or gas station, any desk clerk will help you and take you're money according the WU rules, some are willing, some don't care at all.
It's just something their boss want's them to do when needed for the grand fee of $9.62 an hour (minimum wage in Alberta)
You don't discus it with the customer, they want, you produce the paperwork and take the money.

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:12 am

I used WU once to buy some stuff from an Australian. I had no bank account at the time and went to the post office and found out that they had no international money orders for Australia.

What if WU concentrated its security improvements in Nigeria? Suppose it made a policy that whoever picks up money without proper ID has his picture taken and linked to the transaction, and if enough senders complain that the transactions were scam and are linked to the same picture, he can't pick up money at any WU in Nigeria.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

We just had a very similar discussion about a month ago. Western Union is actually doing more than most companies to try to curb scams. See our previous discussion here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=226452

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:18 am

Scammers like all criminals find ways to get around any law or restriction. That is why they are criminals. Laws mean nothing to them.

Just as they use mules in a Western country, they would use mules in their own countries, or pay off the agents.

Captain Grey, I suggest you actually go to a Western Union outlet or two and see that there IS signage warning about sending money to people you don't know.

As Ima indicated, this is one of the common accusations / debates that shows up every so often.

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:00 pm

Well I'm glad it still causes debate Very Happy

As for signage - well it's a start.
Sometimes a sign at the edge of a cliff isn't enough though - a fence is needed. Laughing

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:53 pm

Captain Grey wrote:

Sometimes a sign at the edge of a cliff isn't enough though - a fence is needed. Laughing

is it just me or is that a awesome line. and I'm being totally serious.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

Captain Grey - You conveniently ignored my post. WU are doing more than just signage. Why don't you check out their website? Also, please check out the other thread.
This isn't actually a debate. It's a question that people bring up here, usually when they haven't bothered to research it themselves first. Wink

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:38 am

Well that's me told then Crying or Very sad

Sorry for not giving read every single post on this website before making a contribution.

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:41 am

One thing is worth noting in this debate: There is no such thing as a WU clerk or a WU outlet. WU is a product, not a chain of outlets. The WU product is typically carried by all kinds of shops, stores and other services - from banks, post offices and Forex, to small convenience stores, jewellers, mobile phone shops, and lots of other places. Because of the nature of this business, it is very hard, if not impossible, for WU to instruct their "clerks", since they are merely whatever persons that are working in a store that carries WU, and not employees of WU, just like the WU "outlets" are not owned by WU. Same goes for MG and other money wiring services, for that matter.

vonpaso xlura wrote:

What if WU concentrated its security improvements in Nigeria? Suppose it made a policy that whoever picks up money without proper ID has his picture taken and linked to the transaction, and if enough senders complain that the transactions were scam and are linked to the same picture, he can't pick up money at any WU in Nigeria.

They already did something along those lines... there was a thread about it, but now I can't find it. But basically, in 2010 WU implemented the restriction, that a Nigerian recepient must have a valid bank account in order to receive money through their services. There are some more restrictions that I don't remember offhand, but in the essence, a Nigerian can't receive money without having a bank account with one of the involved banks. This fact can, of course, be cunningly used for piggy hunting. Wink

Baiting Guru Joined: 27 Mar 2011 Posts: 21158

^^^That is actually in your toolkit under Receipts

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:19 pm

^ Yeah, I know. I was looking for the thread, though. Still am, but now the site keeps giving me a debug error when I search.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

Captain Grey wrote:

Well that's me told then Crying or Very sad

Sorry for not giving read every single post on this website before making a contribution.

I didn't mean lack of research here, I meant lack of research regarding Western Union's information.
When people say that WU isn't doing anything/enough to stop scams, they're usually just not aware of what WU is actually doing.

I didn't expect you to read the whole forum - that's why I very kindly gave you a link to a previous thread. Wink

So that it is also included here, here are links to some of the info from the other thread:
http://www.westernunion.com/us/security-center
http://www.westernunion.com/sites/us/consumer-protection/ConsumerProtection.page

And, just so the information is included here too, I'll repost an old post from Moderator jose_cuervo:

jose_cuervo wrote:

***WESTERN UNION IS A SERVICE THAT SCAMMERS ABUSE.***

WU is a legitimate service that is abused by scammers. Other services that the scammers abuse include, but are not limited to; MoneyGram, TDD/TTY services, the US/UK postal service et al, UPS, Fed Ex, DHL and every single free webmail provider past, present and future.

Western Union is a business, like all businesses, their goal is to make a profit, not to make decisions for their customers or get involved in every aspect of their customers personal affairs. They are aware that the scammers use their service and have even taken the initiative to provide warnings on their website. To my knowledge they are under no legal obligation to do so.

I have gone through the effort to provide some links and PDFs from Western Union's website that clearly addresses specific scams and specific types of scams and even what one should do if they suspect that they may be involved in a scam. I would highly suggest that you read them very thoroughly before making another libelous public post about a very large corporation which you very obviously know nothing about other than what you have read, were told, or have heard, from other equally uninformed sources.

http://www.westernunion.com/info/fraudIndex.asp?country=global
http://www.westernunion.com/info/fraudProtectYourself.asp?country=global
http://www.westernunion.com/info/fraudProtectYourPassword.asp?country=global
http://www.westernunion.com/info/fraudScams.asp?country=global
http://www.westernunion.com/info/fraudTips.asp?country=global

http://members.419eater.com/~jose_cuervo/western_union/wu_pdf1.pdf
http://members.419eater.com/~jose_cuervo/western_union/wu_pdf2.pdf
http://members.419eater.com/~jose_cuervo/western_union/wu_pdf3.pdf

If you have any evidence of Western Union or its employees' direct involvement in advance fee fraud, you may post it here to support previous statements. Failing that, please either submit it to the proper authorities in the appropriate jurisdictions (IE Law Enforcement) or write a letter to Western Union's complaint department, corporate headquarters, sponsors etc, but do not make unsupportable claims of fraud on this forum based upon opinions and conjecture.

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