Lance Armstrong likely to lose his 7 Tour de France titles

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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:36 pm

As some of you may already have read, Lance Armstrong is very likely to be convicted for doping and lose all of his Tour de France titles.

I normally couldn't care less about cycling and professional 'sport' events, but a Swiss newsportal has a quite interesting explanation why this is so:

The title of 1999 would go to Alex Zülle (Switzerland), who (along with his entire Festina team) was barred from the TdF in 1998 for doping. Next in line would be Fernando Escartin (Spain), who was never officially convicted for doping, but had been a good long-term customer of infamous doping doctor Michele Ferrari.

The titles of 2000, 2001 and 2003 would go to Jan Ullrich (Germany), who was barred in 2006 and lost his title from 2005 for his involvement in the doping scandal around Eufemiano Fuentes.

The title of 2002 would go to Joseba Beloki (Spain), member of the Liberty Seguro team that was excluded from the TdF in 2006 for doping.
The second in line for the 2002 title would be Raimondas Rumsas, whose wife was arrested during the 2002 TdF for driving a car full of illegal performance-enhancing drugs, and who was excluded from the 2003 Giro d'Italia for, wait for it, doping.

The title of 2004 would go to Andreas Klöden (Germany), who's been accused of doping by several former team members. Ivan Basso (Italy), next in line for the title, was barred in 2006 and 2007 for - you guessed it - doping.

If the title of 2005 doesn't go to the runners-up Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich (already excluded for doping), the next in line would be Francisco Mancebo (Spain), who was excluded from the TdF in 2006 in the wake of the Fuentes scandal.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:37 pm

OK I think I followed that correctly.

So by my reckoning that means that the 2005 Tour de France title will now be awarded to Pebble, my pet Dartmoor pony?

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:46 pm

They'll be awarding all the wins to Eddy Merckx at this rate.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:41 pm

Actually...

Sorry, Pebble. Looks like my pet tortoise was faster.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:52 pm

^^ I demand a dope test on that tortoise Shocked

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:24 pm

Wow. That's quite an interesting summary, Bankster. Shocked

Is there any professional bike racer who isn't under a cloud of suspicion? I don't follow it so I had no idea quite how far this evidently reached.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:34 pm

^^ is there any professional athlete who isn't under a cloud of suspicion? Even golfer and F1 driver, if you consider those as sports.

The simple fact is that it is impossible for a human being to bike 200 kilometers trough mountains without doping, or run the 100 meters under 10 seconds

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:49 pm

Cycling is relatively clean now. Part of that is down to the furore that's surrounded Armstrong - the doping agencies went into over-drive looking for cheats.

It seems that they've done a good job too. If you take a look at the different stages on this years TdF, the times for different parts of those stages (ie: heading up mountains or on the flats) correspond with what non-doped cyclists should be turning out. Once you're juiced, it's very hard to copy those timings. Very, very difficult, if not impossible. As it's such a long race, a juicer would have to be very consistent and not screw up those timings or he'd be caught.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:15 pm

^ Yeah, and an even better measure is watt. The watt numbers (basically how much power a rider transfers to the bicycle) of the 10 best riders on each stage of this years TdF corresponds more with numbers from before the mid nineties, when EPO was the big thing, than with watt numbers from riders such as Riis, Ullrich, Armstrong, Basso, etc from the EPO era. An indication that the riders are cleaner than they used to be.

That being said - cycling has always been ridden with doping scandals, even before the EPO era. There was plenty of doping scandals in the 80's, and if you go further back, the riders took sh*t like amphetamine mixed with port, and other weird potions. In the 1960 Olympics, Danish rider Knud Enemark died during the 100 kilometer team time trial. The autopsy revealed amphetamine in his blood. And even before then, they used other and even more nasty stuff

I doubt that we will ever see a TdF without a doping scandal or two.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:56 pm

^^ never forget Tom Simpson, who died climbing the Mount Ventoux from heat stroke and sever dehydration due to amphetamines

the thing is that doping will always be ahead of it's detection

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:02 pm

Do I have to give my sticker back? The AMD sticker was put on there by the factory too.

This is supposed to be the same set up as the road bike Lance used from 2004 to 2007 except he replaced the triple chain ring with a double to get down to the 15 pound limit. You don't need 30 speeds when you are on EPO.

I can do 200 km rides in a peleton and keep up at speed until the group goes up a sustained incline. I've got a 100 mile ride with 5,000 feet of vertical next month and will climb 5,000 feet on the bike tomorrow. We start at 2 P.M. and I've been told to bring lights so I can expect at least a 5 hour ride.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:04 pm

^^ nice bike! How much does it weight?

nighttime at 7 PM? Where do you live?

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:03 am

The bike without pedals and cages was 15.5 pounds. I've added Utegra pedals and carbon cages so maybe over 16 pounds before the water, inflator, spare CO2, spare tube, patches, food, tools, batteries and lights.

Where am I? At Concepts College of course!

Back to the topic-

"Belgian Eddy Merckx, who won five Tours and who is quite possibly the most accomplished cyclist in history, tested positive for banned substances three times (though one of the substances was later removed from the banned list) and was expelled from the 1969 Giro D’Italia, a race he was leading after 16 stages."

When I bought this bike I already had a lighter bike that had been used for Olympic qualifications. The problem was that it had the two chain ring deal for weight and a short arm Dura ace derailleur for reduced weight and wind resistance. Oh and it hurt my butt.

I was looking at Greg Lemond's beautiful blue and gold Zurich steel bike but it suddenly became totally unavailable when Greg accused Lance of doping. The Trek Medone in Armstrong Team Discovery Channel blue that I bought instead went from $300 above MSRP with a three month waiting list to less than the cost of the components on it, take it now please, we will install pedals and the cleats on your shoes for free.

I was amazed what doping accusations do to the retail price of bikes.

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:24 am

^^ I was under the impression these bikes could be lifted from the ground with the palm of your hand and almost no strenght at all. Isn't 16 pounds too heavy?

Baiting Guru Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 12237

Connie L. Gus wrote:

200 km

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:41 am

Connie L. Gus wrote:

200 km

Baiting Guru Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 2163

Pastor Frank wrote:

Connie L. Gus wrote:

200 km

thats about 5 million yanch or whatever weird kind of measurements you use over there

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:51 pm

^ A bit like the dollar, huh? Laughing

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:52 pm

Jim Morrison wrote:

^^ I was under the impression these bikes could be lifted from the ground with the palm of your hand and almost no strenght at all. Isn't 16 pounds too heavy?

I've not got the documentation but I remember a guy named Jalabert that showed up to the TdF with an aluminum bike that weighted 6.4 Kgs (14 pounds in PF units). The frame was 800 grams and had to be changed after every stage. The TdF people said this was crazy and set the limit at 6.8 Kgs or 15 pounds. Lance did win the TdF that year (until he got caught) with a 14.5 pound bike that had down tube shifters and a boron fiber construction.

I won't have to give up my bike sticker because Contador won the TdF in 2007 on a Madone. He didn't get caught for doping until 2010.

I've noticed that my bike is about average on rides. I've lifted up bikes onto the support vehicles after rides and noticed that some are shocking light and others are heavier. I've also noticed that the cost of the bikes are not weight related but based upon branding and marketing. I ride with a guy that has $7,000 and $13,000 bikes that are both heavier than mine.

Over the years and due to the miles and possibly crashes, I'm getting close to the end of the service life of my frame. The local Trek dealer will honor the lifetime frame guarantee but I have to pay for the labor for component swapping and a deductible. I can get a complete 14.7 pound bike with no name for the same out of pocket cost but I won't. I'll problably get a slightly heavier bike but with electric shifting.

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:40 am

^^ electric shifting? That sounds like a nightmare with water, sand and mud. I imagine that is only available for road bikes.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7103 Location: Yes

Madone 6 Series is race-bike royalty, with its legacy of 9 Tour de France wins.

Wonder when they change that?

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:36 am

Jim Morrison wrote:

^^ electric shifting? That sounds like a nightmare with water, sand and mud. I imagine that is only available for road bikes.

I've heard that they have it for XC and now for DH bikes.
http://dirt.mpora.com/news/shimano-electronic-shifting.html

I've got a Shimano XTR shifter set on my mountain bike and it seems to work just fine even though the gear ratio is much larger than my road bike's Dura Ace. I think its because of the ergonomics of having thumb shifting instead of at the fingertips. I've tried the electronic/electric shifting and it just works. Moving the chain up the cassette is as hard as moving down.

@JMRazor- I was stunned at the pricing. Who would pay those kinds of prices, and over a thousand dollars more for special colors for a bike that does not even have Dura Ace parts on it? I got my first Trek when a friend of mine, a rider for the American team in the Munich Olympics, and a writer for a bicycle magazine told me to get a new hand made American no name bike with investment cast lugs for $421 dollars. Umm. thinking back, that must have been a lot of money because the credit card company needed me to call them before they would approve the charge but it was a whole lot less than the big name bikes.

My mountain bike is a no name but it has remote shocks, full suspension, hydraulic brakes and XTR shifters. My wife's bike was used, has no name at all as the tubes were sanded down for weight by the previous owner, weighs 15 pound with pedals and cost us $75. The owner asked for $65 and I could not/ would not make change.

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