Is this scam or just deceptive publicity.

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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:36 am

I'm the lucky winner of a vacation in Turkey. Only one detail caught my attention: the sender was a "sabine greiner", who signed her mail as "simone greiner". Other than that, it looks quite legitimate and I booked (yes, I know I should not have used my real email address). I got confirmation of my booking. So far nothing or nobody is asking for money. I'll get more by regular snailmail. Guess that'l be when they ask for the booking fee, fuel taxes etc. I DID book under fake names, fake phone number, but true home address. Just want to see what will come.
Full email:
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
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Message-ID: <14898273.1307364758015.NGMail.u336767170@h1935495654>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 14:52:38 +0200 (CEST)
From: Sabine Greinert <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Sabine Greinert <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: uw reis naar Turkije . . .
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-DCC-Scarlet-Metrics: bache 1390; Body=500 Fuz1=2193
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96.2-exp at bache
X-Virus-Status: Clean

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,
Sie haben an einem unserer Internet Gewinnspiele erfolgreich teilgenommen u=
nd=20
eine 8 t=E4gige Rundreise an die Lykische K=FCste in der T=FCrkei f=FCr 4 P=
ersonen (Wert von 1496,-- EUR, exclusiv der
Buchungsgeb=FChr und Kerosinzuschlag / Pax Tax) gewonnen.

- Hin- und R=FCckflug mit renommierten Charterfluggesellschaften nach Antal=
ya
- 20 kg Freigep=E4ck
- Transfer Flughafen =96 Hotel - Flughafen
- Rundreisefahrten gem=E4=DF Reiseverlauf in klimatisierten Reisebussen
- 6 =DCbernachtungen in mindestens 4 Sterne Hotels (Landeskategorie)
- 1 =DCbernachtungen in einem guten Thermal Hotel bei Pamukkale
- Fr=FChst=FCck
- Unterbringung im Doppelzimmer
- Lizenzierte Deutschsprachige Reiseleitung vor Ort

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ihre Gewinnnummer: MS6611
Gewinnbest=E4tigung unter: www.lastminute-pauschalreise.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sollten Sie den Link nicht =F6ffnen k=F6nnen, kopieren Sie ihn bitte vollst=
=E4ndig=20
in die Adresszeile Ihres Internetbrowsers.

Bitte melden Sie Ihren Gewinn bis zum 13.06.11 an.

Bis zu dem Tag nicht angemeldete Gewinne werden neu verlost.

Wir freuen uns mit Ihnen und w=FCnschen schon jetzt einen sch=F6nen Urlaub!

Simone Greinert
Flight Managment

I thought I might make them spend money on phone and/or postage. The reply emails from them are visibly auto-generated.

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:40 am

here's the reply:

Sehr geehrte Herr Moons,

Hiermit bestätigen wir die Reise mit der Buchungsnummer WT35662.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anzahl der Reisenden: 4 Pers.
1. Herr Ronny Moons (Geburtstag: 01.05.1948)
2. Frau Amalia Moons (Geburtstag: 10.10.1990)
3. Herr Lowis Verschoten (Geburtstag: 29.04.1940)
4. Frau Talamalinka Verschoten (Geburtstag: 27.03.1991)

Reiseplan:
Abflug: Am 01.11.2011 von Düsseldorf nach Antalya
Rückflug: Am 08.11.2011 ab Antalya nach Düsseldorf

Hotel-Unterkunft:
2 x Doppelzimmer

Rechnungsanschrift:
Herr Ronny Moons
Draaiboomstraat 11
2160 Wommelgem
Belgien

Telefon:
Mobil-Telefon: 0476324865

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eine schriftliche Buchungsbestätigung geht Ihnen in den nächsten Tagen per Post zu. Bei Fragen oder Zusatzbuchungen geben Sie bitte immer Ihre Buchungsnummer an.

Vielen Dank für Ihre Buchung!
Simone Gellermann

Reise- und Buchungszentrum

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:49 am

I can't read German but this type of thing isn't uncommon in the UK.
Basically, they try to sell you a time-share. You have to attend a corporate presentation somewhere in your country (sometimes accompanied with a small "administration fee") and then another one when you get out there (up to 6 hours long). There are also stories of these companies demanding possession of your passport before giving you any accomodation keys.
In other cases, you get the "holiday" but have to pay for flights, insurance, etc.
It's all aimed at brainwashing you to part with more of your money than the holiday is ever worth though.

Way to look at it is: if it sounds too good to be true, it almost certainly is.

Although it's 10 years old, there's a BBC article here showing the darker side of these schemes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1957890.stm

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:16 am

Whocares wrote:

I'm the lucky winner of a vacation in Turkey.

Did you enter? As we keep telling people, you can't win a lottery that you didn't enter.
Walk away.

Baiting Guru Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 3877

Quote:

Sehr geehrte Herr Moons,

this makes me suspicious.

it should be Sehr geehrter Herr Moons,

and that miss Simone Greinert suddenly changed to Simone Gellermann.

was the senders name Sabine Greiner or Sabine Greinert?

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:52 am

Can't read a word of this but the website mentioned was created only days ago and a one year registration. I would be very suspicious.

Quote:

Created:2011-06-04
Expires:2012-06-04

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:58 am

Anything sent from Germany makes me suspicious!
I got a wrongly delivered package the other day containing a black uniform with Nazi armband, a strange,short , off center, sick on mustache, three pounds of moldy knockwurst's, a pair of pink ladies bloomers, a single false ball (bollock), a map of Poland with 'stinky place', 'all must die' written all over it in German.

I had a 1933 postmark, so it might hanging round in the post for a while ..
It was actually addressed to

Adolf 'poopipants' Hitler
Reichskanzlei
Berlin
Deutschland

Yes, look out for any emails addressed from Adolf Hitler, especially if he's trying to sell you a timeshare in Auschwitz.

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:24 pm

Quote:

Sie haben an einem unserer Internet Gewinnspiele erfolgreich teilgenommen

translation: you have succesfully participated in our Internet lottery

did you?

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:34 pm

I went to one of these presentations, they go on and on and on. They wouldn't fix prices, the grubby east end gangster type kept telling me "well if you have to ask you can't afford it can you" as if this made him the cleverest economist in the world, he was expecting me to go all mugu and say "I bloody can and here's my credit card to prove it" but I let him go on until i was bored, then just left. I've been approached numerous times while abroad by recruiters trying to sell me this shit, these days I just tell them to go and ram it. There's always cheaper ways of travelling, with less commitment (ie none) so even legitimate timeshares are pretty much a dead business. The shady ones are pure muck and you don't want to go near them.

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:31 pm

Well, first of all, I did NOT sign in, did NOT participate in any lottery at all. I've got lottery scam letters before, next of kin things, you name it. This is the first one of this kind. Yes, I checked the website and noticed it wasn't registered that long ago.
To our obviously German friend: the sender of the first email was sabine greinert, who signed as simone greinert. An email sent to that email address bounced.
The subject line of the mail even was in Dutch.
I did some research and found several forums with discussions about exactly the same scheme from a few years ago, none of those discussions made me any wiser: it all came down to saying this was a way for travel agencies to fill up empty places: if you try to book with MY winning code, you can. As many times as you want. But only for winter and non-vacation periods. Are they THAT smart to make it look real?? As for myself, I would NEVER believe to be offered a free vacation during x-mass or spring holidays, but the periods they offer are truly low season.

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:52 pm

exclusiv der
Buchungsgebühr und Kerosinzuschlag / Pax Tax

I think that's what they go after. Booking fee, fuel price compensation. Pretty sure that bill will show up in the paperwork they're gonna send me.
Don't bash me, guys, but the name and home address I gave is real, the email is real. First names and dates of birth, and cell phone numbers are not. I DID want to dig this out, so want to receive that snailmail. I've read everything about bating safely, been reading on this website every now and then for years now. But I am fairly confident that these are not dangerous scammers, just cheaters. And I am puzzled because apparently they will send hardcopy to get money.
I'll keep you posted.

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:07 am

Whocares wrote:

The subject line of the mail even was in Dutch.

I noticed. You might try answering in Plattdütsch, Kauderwelsch, or some other obscure Germanic mishmash. I'm baiting someone who runs English through a computer to get Spanish in a French-speaking country. I answer in Spanish, with Hispanicized French words mixed in, and some intentional typos to befuddle him more when he tries to translate it back.

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:34 am

I think your predictions of hidden fees is spot on. This may be a legit but shady business. If it was me I'd not trust any company that apears to be "fly by night" as this one does.

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:41 am

Quote:

Don't bash me, guys, but the name and home address I gave is real, the email is real.

I wouldn't panic, actually. I've busted many real-life (not 419) scam artists over the past few years, sometimes handing my records over to the cops and testifying at their trials, and they all know who I am and where I work. I don't give them my home address, but they could find that out any time since it's not hidden. And some of them are involved in more violent things than fraud. How many have come after me? Zero. I had one very veiled threat once, and that was from a scammer's boyfriend, but that's it.

I'll never encourage unsafe baiting, but the majority of scammers are not very dangerous. Most of them would run away if they saw you coming. There are some violent scammers in the world, maybe even a few who would come after you (hence the "bait safe" rule), but those guys are few and far in between.

Always bait safe though.

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:35 am

The website gives more trip details. Such as that the booking fee is 49 Euro per person. That's a lot of money for online booking, even more than Rianair would charge.
The language issue: what about real "Aantwaarps"? Dan versteun zer gin kloewete van.

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:33 pm

wowwow wrote:

Anything sent from Germany makes me suspicious! ...

Aaawww, and I was just about to send you a plastic model of Neuschwanstein! Laughing

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 1440

Quote:

look out for any emails addressed from Adolf Hitler, especially if he's trying to sell you a timeshare in Auschwitz.

That is gold....so sick and so funny at the same time.

I bet you could sign your reply to the scam as Adolf Hitler and the lads would have no clue as to who that might be.

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:09 pm

Chugg wrote:

I'll never encourage unsafe baiting, but the majority of scammers are not very dangerous. Most of them would run away if they saw you coming. There are some violent scammers in the world, maybe even a few who would come after you (hence the "bait safe" rule), but those guys are few and far in between.

Always bait safe though.

Glad to see you qualified that statement with your last sentence.

The way it should be looked at is this:

The majority of scammers probably aren't dangerous to baiters, but the problem is that you may never know which are and which aren't until it's too late.
Because of that, they should all be treated as potential threats and no matter how comfortable you feel, you should never give out any personal details.

I've also been involved in the arrests of lads on my hometurf but I would never be comfortable with them knowing my personal details. I'm no physical pushover but the fact that nothing has happened doesn't mean that there couldn't be any trouble in the future. And even if we didn't take our own well-being into consideration, we all have families.

Even in this case, the OP is treading a fine line and I personally would recommend dropping any bait and starting again from a fresh address with false details. Unless you know exactly who you're dealing with (which is impossible in the case of an email exchange), the potential risks always outweigh the positives.

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:46 am

Quote:

look out for any emails addressed from Adolf Hitler, especially if he's trying to sell you a timeshare in Auschwitz.

Oh I don't know, I think Adolf Hitler scrubs up quite well as house music:

http://youtu.be/zlJ31FVuv6A

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:27 am

Just got the paperwork: the company address is in Turkey. The phone number is in germany, and is a pay number. The booking fee is to be paid in a swiss bank. The domain for the reply email address (lykien-rundreise.net) is whois protected (in panama?). More googleing reveiled that, even if one travels, all the additional fees will make the trip possibly more expensive than other, honest, travel agencies in "allowed" season.
So this is no scam, just plain cheating within the grey borders of the law. (as the "booking center"'s address is in Turkey, European law won't apply.

Note that the confirmation letter does not mention anything more than flight and hotel accomodation.

Unfortunately I don't know how to attach a scan of the letter. It is stamped in Germany.

Anyway, at least this has cost them 0,70 Euro for the stamp.

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:36 am

I have a general rule that I live my life by, "if I didn't ask for it, it isn't for me".

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