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DontFearTheReaper
Hello I'm New here!
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Posts: 2
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:28 am |
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I mean, morally, you're just doing to them as they are to you; but legally, is fraud not fraud even if it's counter-fraud?--I'm in the US btw. |
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Ima Baeder
Baiting Guru
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 18313
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:40 am |
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Hi and welcome.
No, it's not illegal. We don't ask the scammers for money, we promise to let them steal ours. We're not committing fraud, we're lying. |
_________________ 348 Fake Sites killed
x 100 2 Years |
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DontFearTheReaper
Hello I'm New here!
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Posts: 2
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:35 am |
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Ahh, I read some scambaits where they did ask for money and receive it. |
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Ima Baeder
Baiting Guru
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 18313
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:40 am |
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That's known as cash baiting and hasn't been practiced here in years. (long before I was even a member). If you read the forum rules and FAQ's there's an entire section about this. |
_________________ 348 Fake Sites killed
x 100 2 Years |
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Dr. Ivor Bollockov
419Eater is my life
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brighton U.K.
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:41 am |
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DontFearTheReaper wrote: |
I mean, morally, you're just doing to them as they are to you; but legally, is fraud not fraud even if it's counter-fraud?--I'm in the US btw. |
Illegal? NO
Fraud? NO
Quote: |
you're just doing to them as they are to you |
NO
Do a little bit of research Mr. Reaper before attacking us. We don't seek to make any pecuniary advantage from these scammers!
We're just hoping that by engaging them with an *ahem* false promise, we can prevent them from targeting a genuine victim.
Many years ago, one or two here did do a cash bait (and it was funny to see the results) but ultimately it was decided that it did
more harm than good.
Care to join us? (or are you happier pontificating about the so called morals) |
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USEMA PANTE
*********************
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Last edited by Dr. Ivor Bollockov on Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pandora
** SUSPENDED **
Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Off to Jo-Burg, SA
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:45 am |
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Ethical scambating is legal, this form of scambating is what is socially accepted and done around here, and all we're doing is waisting their time to prevent them from scamming other people not in the know.
Now what we do to have fun with them is send them on safaris and send pictures and such, which may cost them money, and the only profit we get is the laughter, and entertainment of millions of people on the internet.
Now just like hacking there are White/Grey/Black hat hackers, and the same goes for scambaiting, which is NOT accepted here, and will get you thrown out quick. Object of Un-ethical scambating would be to get money from the scammers, maliciously put them into harms way, and do any kind of hacking/viruses/trojans to their computers |
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Mr Tambourine Man
Baiting Guru
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 3398
Location: Magic swirlin' ship
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:13 am |
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Not another ethics thread! |
_________________ is always Good when you have the zeal to be a hitwoman when you out of school,it makes you bold and reall and it makes you more high than any other of your friend.
NOW AMBACK FOR YOU AGAIN STURBORN SHIT
you dont have a phone.that makes makes you joe butt
Fuck you and go find something to do man. Stop disturbing me please.
This is definitely why you will remain and die in poverty, ignorant of good things and easy acknowledgment of bad things and words. Shame on you, you wicked generation children.
i went you to no that this is not a cheld pray. i went you to get back to me
we are not scammer,we hate scammer as you do.scammer make out life harder and harder,a lot of people think we are scammer,in fact,we are not!! please trustt us |
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Pandora
** SUSPENDED **
Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Off to Jo-Burg, SA
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:18 am |
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We must educate the people not in the know! |
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Tigbitties
419Eater is my life
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 402
Location: location, location
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:36 am |
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welcome to Eater, DontFearTheReaper. I think you've asked a perfectly legitimate question but my view is I don't think I'm doing anything illegal or immoral. Yes, I tell them a heap of lies every day, and some people do think that's immoral and even say it makes us as bad as the scammers. The way I look at it this; If a mad axe man who was chasing a victim stopped and asked me which way the victim went, would it be immoral for me to tell him a lie. OK, a bit extreme, I know, but I sleep well at night knowing I've spun a web of lies to these pests.
Be prepared for some vigorous replies to your question from baiters, but it's only because similar questions get raised here with regularity. We do work to a code of ethics here and you'll see these in the stickies at the top of each forum. I hope you'll decide to join us as an active baiter and if you do, there's plenty of help available from other baiters here. |
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TheDane
Baiting Guru
Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Posts: 5194
Location: Meanwhile, somewhere else...
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:15 am |
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@Dr. Ivor, I don't think it's fair to yell at Reaper the way you did. First of all, he asked the question in a very non-hostile way, and secondly, a few posts down he realizes that we do not scam these guys for money or anything. Accusing him for attacking us and pontificating is just uncalled for. It's clear to me that he wants to be enlightened, not judgemental.
@Reaper, I hope you're a bit more enlightened now, and in case you have more questions, just drop them here and I'm sure you will get your answers. |
_________________ x122 x3 x2 x2 x13
Trafalgar Square 2013
Goat Milk Lad 2012-13:
Lagos-Ouagadougou-Arbinda Warri-Yaoundé
I AM A FOOL AND I AM SO DISAPPOINTED - Brother Okei AKA Goat Milk Lad
I do not wish my enemy what I have experienced and this humiliation you are putting me through - Rushforth (on behalf of Dharma & Dr Mike) |
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Master
Baiting Guru
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 2531
Location: AU
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:36 am |
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bad Ivor very bad. go to your room. |
_________________ 2,633 miles:"i am coming to safari myself"
All you did is a bunches of fucked-up!FIRE burn the G0mers!
Shorty & Hectard escape from guantanamo
it was all a big fuck of disappointed
you are the fooliest baboom!
You are dead MUMU!!!! |
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ChoppaOfDolla
419Eater is my life
Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Posts: 329
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:28 pm |
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@ Reaper:
There have been a few threads like this before; always, the conclusions have been that:
* For the most part, scambaiting is legal. Some baits where we obtain art and the like under false pretences probably aren't, but there have been no cases where a baiter has actually been prosecuted for it. The most common baits, where you simply annoy the lads and waste their time, are legal.
* Scammers are extremely unlikely to report any sort of baiting activity to the police, because they would get in trouble themselves.
* The cops aren't interested in prosecuting baiters. Some people on this site have (or claimed to have) asked police officers about this, and the answer has always been that it would be like being asked to investigate a drug dealer selling fake drugs- they wouldn't be interested in doing it.
There is one case I'm aware of where a baiter almost got into trouble. In that case, he set up a fake bank and encouraged scammers to use it for their transactions (the idea being that victims' payments wouldn't get through to them). He was arrested, but no charges were actually pressed:
http://www.occ.treas.gov/ftp/alert/2004-19.txt
Even in that case, the fact that he was a baiter was not the main concern of the authorities.
Some other activities are potentially illegal (such as impersonating bank officials or police officers), but again I'm not aware of any cases where a baiter has been prosecuted for this. |
_________________ do you think that you are dealing with an ungry person here?
u got 12 hours to send the money remember no game u fuck face
If you like you can send $1 Billion to any person. But I want to tell you that I did not get even $1 from you.
x2 |
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The Monsignor
*** BANNED ***
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 3221
Location: St Michael's Chapel
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:52 pm |
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The Member has every right to ask the question. The bullying response given above was inexcusable. |
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Bankster
Baiting Guru
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 2239
Location: Gone for a while.
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:09 pm |
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^^ If I may add to the above, in many countries it's a law or common practice not to prosecute you if the 'public interest' in a prosecution doesn't justify the effort.
In other words, even if a baiting-related activity is technically slightly illegal, the authorities are free to (and often will) sweep minor offences under the rug. |
_________________ Whoever said you can't touch happiness has never petted a dog.
( ) x10 __ x? |
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Dr Mike
Baiting Guru
Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 3264
Location: Due north
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:21 pm |
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You don't wanna piss of the Dane lest he take you to Millers Crossing. |
_________________
X10
Trafalgar Square 2013
X 24 Random safaris
X 12 Welcome to Sweden
X 9 Chadian minister of tourism project
X 9 Rame Head pilgrimage
Rame Head 2013
Globe of Gluttony
CBC Documentary Safari |
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SlapHappy
Baiting Guru
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 9612
Location: Floating up and down with happiness.
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:32 pm |
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Welcome to Eater, DontFarTheReaper.
They write fiction and tell stories, and so do we. They do it to steal, we do it to waste their time, get their details to close their illegal bank accounts, close down their fake websites, close their phony phone and electronics "selling" businesses, and more, all to cause the scammers financial pain and lost money. Our actions help protect and warn victims of these scumbag criminals, and occasionally help get them arrested. There are lots of different ways that you can help here. Read through the website and find something that matches your skills and interest. Scammers will never go away, but I'm glad for all the people here who have decided to do a little something about it.
Pandora said:
Quote: |
Object of Un-ethical scambating...maliciously put them into harms way, |
I disagree with the word "maliciously." I see nothing wrong with sending lads to inconvenient locations, like Timbucktu, that are filled with troops with guns, lousy bug-infested hotels, 120F degree temperatures, and unfamiliar foods. Regardless of all the whining they do about how hash the conditions are, they lie.
They have money or can get it from their associates or family. Because they are criminals and will sometimes try to scam a hotel owner and not pay their bills, they might even get arrested. They might get angry or start a fight. They may get exposed as scammers to the locals, who will justly toss them in jail. What is wrong with that? Nothing. They chose to go there in order to steal money, and they can quit at any time. Even after "suffering!" these hash conditions, they keep going and they continue to scam.
ChoppaOfDolla said:
Quote: |
Some baits where we obtain art and the like under false pretences probably aren't
(legal) |
Every art bait here I have seen is legal. The lad signs an agreement form before any art is sent. Sample art must be accepted as up to the standards of the buyer or whoever. If it doesn't meet the requirements as determined by the buyer, it is rejected, and no payment will be sent to the lad. Too bad that they suck at being art producers or agents. And every artist that is not a lad gets paid by the lad, make no mistake about that. The lad pays for the art, so no innocent third party is harmed. We get receipts for payment to the artist as well. It looks bad for them and they might get taken to court if they don't pay the artist, if they can even get it out of the artists' hands before paying him which is doubtful. |
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DungDigger
frivolous bustard
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 376
Location: Undercover, on top of things and beside myself.
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:45 pm |
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Hi Don'tFearTheReaper
It's a good question and one I thought about too, before throwing my rather fetching raspberry coloured hat with rhinestones and feathers on it into the ring.
When I think of what these scammers have done to innocent people my blood runs very cold, and what's even better is that what we all do here is legal - and its poetic justice.
As the others have said, we do not cash bait.
We do not do anything which harms innocent third parties or involves them in any way.
Our targets are these scum scammers, and although what we do is fun, it has a very serious objective which is to play these rats at their own game, waste their time and money and ultimately get innocent victims more aware of what scams actually look like. We might even get some scammers slung in jail. Some baiters get bank accounts and scamming websites shut down. It's all good.
Some of us are currently involved in a mass bait of a death threat scammer. I daren't think what someone with a dicky heart might feel if they got these emails, or if they believed them. He really is the lowest form of worm.
I feel very proud and honoured to be a part of this community. |
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conga22
Baiting Guru
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 2097
Location: Look Behind You
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:50 pm |
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If it was illegal my mummy wouldn't let me do it |
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TheDane
Baiting Guru
Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Posts: 5194
Location: Meanwhile, somewhere else...
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:05 pm |
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Dr Mike wrote: |
You don't wanna piss of the Dane lest he take you to Millers Crossing. |
Didn't think of that myself. Great movie, btw. |
_________________ x122 x3 x2 x2 x13
Trafalgar Square 2013
Goat Milk Lad 2012-13:
Lagos-Ouagadougou-Arbinda Warri-Yaoundé
I AM A FOOL AND I AM SO DISAPPOINTED - Brother Okei AKA Goat Milk Lad
I do not wish my enemy what I have experienced and this humiliation you are putting me through - Rushforth (on behalf of Dharma & Dr Mike) |
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grimbleton
Not quite a Newb
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 53
Location: dodging gridbugs
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:58 pm |
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DontFearTheReaper wrote: |
... but legally, is fraud not fraud even if it's counter-fraud? ... |
here's an interesting twist on this. how about requiring the lad to make a verifiable donation to a legitimate charity?
say, for example, $20 to the red cross or something like that?
i suppose, theoretically, that is cash baiting, but since the money is sent to a charity and never enters your hands...
hmmm...
any legal experts (double-o?) care to expound on this one?
cheers.
grimbleton
====================
AFTER-SUBMISSION ADDITION (hey that rhymed!) BEGINS HERE
i used to be a "skip tracer". for those not familiar with that term, it's someone that has forfeited their bail and for whom an arrest warrant has been issued. it was my job to track them down for the bail bondsmen when the skip went into hiding.
my primary mode of information gathering was "pretense calling" (lying my ass off over the phone). while the lie itself may be immoral, i would never consider it unethical.
when operating in that capacity, you are:
A) bringing a suspect to justice.
B) helping to protect the public from more of their activities.
C) educating those that may not be aware that they are dealing with a potentially very bad person.
frankly, i think A, B and C are all worth being a little immoral in my dealings with people that are trying to destroy honest people's lives. so if i'm going to "go to hell" for something, it might as well be for something that's fun or funny.
cheers again! |
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jallajalla
Not quite a Newb
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 32
Location: 1.2 inches under Lad's skin.
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:37 pm |
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Quote: |
say, for example, $20 to the red cross or something like that?
i suppose, theoretically, that is cash baiting, but since the money is sent to a charity and never enters your hands...
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I don't think that there is a problem with this. The thing is that if you get money or other artifacts from the scammer by promising something you are not going to deliver then you are on the dark side.
If the charity can't know that the donation was due to your actions and no one can credit you for the donation then you don't benefit from the donation. Thus there is no gain for you except maybe the satisfaction on someone benefiting and the lad loosing money. |
_________________
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Dr Mike
Baiting Guru
Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 3264
Location: Due north
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:04 pm |
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TheDane wrote: |
Didn't think of that myself. Great movie, btw. |
But isn't it The Dane from Millers Crossing in your avatar?
Btw "danskjävlar" |
_________________
X10
Trafalgar Square 2013
X 24 Random safaris
X 12 Welcome to Sweden
X 9 Chadian minister of tourism project
X 9 Rame Head pilgrimage
Rame Head 2013
Globe of Gluttony
CBC Documentary Safari |
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Badgerbait
Baiting Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 4507
Location: Winter spites...
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:18 pm |
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Hello, welcome to eater, read the stickies and get a mentor. All questions will be answered in good time if you follow those steps.
Baiting is the art of stalling with just a hint of deception. We show little mercy to lad kind for the simple reason they show little mercy to their victims. Cash baiting is not only ethically forbidden but legally (perpetrates fraud) as well. Two wrongs do not make a right, ever. Asking for a donation to a legitimate charitable organization would be nice but it is still illegal and now you have involved an Innocent Third Party. I am sure they do not want ill gotten gains. Artifacts and documents sent by scammers are not bringing anyone to the darkside. they are trophies and do not equate to cash baiting. Most of the things they send are of no monetary value.
Please review the ethics thread. Thank you.
Thanks for all or you. |
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Just Jane
Baiting Guru
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 2380
Location: On my pirate ship
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:35 pm |
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Ima wrote: |
We're not committing fraud, we're lying |
If lying to lads is illegal then I'm in BIG trouble |
_________________ x 18 x 64
Winner of the Summer Challenge Prize August 2008
- St4nley's Xmax Adventure - I am suppose to be your Lover and not your house lad. - St4nley
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Barack Obama Scammed - Benin-Lagos-Maiduguri 'Oh Shit' - Hon. M4rtins
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TheDane
Baiting Guru
Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Posts: 5194
Location: Meanwhile, somewhere else...
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:01 pm |
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Dr Mike wrote: |
But isn't it The Dane from Millers Crossing in your avatar? |
Nope, Gunnery Sergeant Hartmann from Full Metal Jacket.
Dr Mike wrote: |
Btw "danskjävlar" |
Satans svenskere.
I'm building an inter-Scandinavian force for a mass bait. Want in? |
_________________ x122 x3 x2 x2 x13
Trafalgar Square 2013
Goat Milk Lad 2012-13:
Lagos-Ouagadougou-Arbinda Warri-Yaoundé
I AM A FOOL AND I AM SO DISAPPOINTED - Brother Okei AKA Goat Milk Lad
I do not wish my enemy what I have experienced and this humiliation you are putting me through - Rushforth (on behalf of Dharma & Dr Mike) |
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