Want to Bait, but My Conscience Gets in the Way. Please help

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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:40 am

The list of 419 scammer disgusting behaviour is endless and has not been completed yet.

A couple of gut wrenching examples I came across when I started baiting were the scam where they tried to collect money pretending to be part of the Noma charity that was trying to help African children suffering from an appalling disease that left them with terrible facial disfigurement, and another where they pretended to be the parents of a sick and dying child in India, and they sent appalling pictures of a child that I was able to trace to a child who had died four years previously. Abusing the memory of a child who had died in sickness, poverty and agony set my sights pretty low when it comes to how ruthlessly I'll deal with a scammer.

When you get involved in warning, then the things you come across can cause you to have to consider giving up involvement entirely simply because what you hear is so bad. I think it was last year a person in the UK threw himself under a train after being taken by a romace scammer, and think what state of mind you have to be in to do that to yourself.

There are scammers who actually target the disabled by abusing the relay service and haunt disabled forums and groups. The list is endless. I run an answerphone for my baiting and I can understand, from how frequently it rings, how people who are vulnerable can be driven to the brink of insanity and beyond by their incessant calling.

You can either test out whether or not they have any scruples by the baits you set up, or just stick to wasting their time, and much fun can be had doing that alone, and it does help to keep them away from real victims.

Oh and, in case you wondered, they scam other Africans too.

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:14 pm

Welcome LP9 Very Happy

The only piece of advice I've ever been given in my life that I actually listened to was "Live true to yourself". If you feel that baiting isn't for you, then you don't need to do it. Or if it's just the idea of safaris that bother you, just try straight-baiting and fishing for bank accounts to kill off. Personally I've run quite a few baits since I got started here and I've never had a safari in one yet. (Mostly 'cos I'm not very good at it though, lol).

From my own point of view, I don't feel in the least bit sorry for these scammers. Some of them have a good education and could easily do quite well in honest work if they chose to, but instead they make a living by stealing from others. Once they get a grip on a victim, they'll take everything they can get then move on to the next one. Often whole families of victims have been left in crippling debt, some have even committed suicide. And the scammers really couldn't care less as long as they get more money.
As for their stories about suffering families, sick kids, needing food and so on. Personally I see that as a psychological attack. If these guys were really in such desperate need, surely they'd be off trying to get in contact with charity organisations or trying to find some work. Not paying for an internet cafe seat and trying to steal from others (something that even they probably know isn't 100% guaranteed to bring in money). Therefore, I'd say that their stories are just lies designed to make people feel sorry for them, to gain an emotional grip on their victim that they can use to their advantage. Victims aren't always clueless, sometimes they just feel genuinely sorry for these guys and want to help.

*douses self with cold water*
Gotta stop now before I end up writing a novel here, lol.
Basically, the choice of whether to bait or not always remains with you.
I'd say if you really want to get into baiting though, find a site like Scamwarners.com that has stories of victims who have been scammed before. Do a bit of research on that. Once you've read enough victim stories, any remaining sympathy for the scammers will quickly disappear.

Surprised no-one has pointed this out yet too Wink

http://www.419eater.com/html/ethics.htm

Whether you decide to get into baiting or not, enjoy your stay Very Happy

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:57 pm

Technomancer wrote:

As for their stories about suffering families, sick kids, needing food and so on. Personally I see that as a psychological attack. If these guys were really in such desperate need, surely they'd be off trying to get in contact with charity organisations or trying to find some work.

Exactly.

I have several catcher accounts and I receive dozens of letters from scammers on daily basis. I've seen hundreds and hundreds of scammer scripts and I don't remember seeing a single letter with the sender's real life information. They are always from non-existing bankers, barristers, etc. or from well-known personalities (governors, ex-presidents, etc.) who would never approach me without knowing me. If someone steals another person's identity or creates a non-existing identity and approaches me, it is the scammer who has taken an initiative. If I lie him/her back, he/she is free not to believe me or he/she could confess that the original letter was a scam. That doesn't happen often and in most cases they confess only to steal your money anyway.

There is a very small minority of beggar lads, though, who send letters peppered with some facts about their sufferings. Personally, I know so many reliable organizations and individuals who gladly accept my donations that I don't have to wire money to strange characters who happen to send random emails to me. Besides, it would be totally irresponsible to wire funds to strangers who could use them for criminal activities. I could be even charged myself.

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:52 pm

I do believe that the Safari is among the greatest extremes to baiter actions, so it is understandable why some of the larger ones attract contraversy.

It can be easy to forget that you are communicating with humans, even if those humans are doing dispicable things. The worst type of lad in my eyes are the ones who immitate charities. They are not only stealing from an unsuspecting payee (who often will have no reason not to realise that they have been scammed, even after paying), but they are stealing from real charities, stealing from the poor, from earthquake victims, tsunami victims, you name it. As for the same guy, stranded a couple of hundred km's away - sometimes it is best to view it from the perspective that the scammer got themselves into whatever mess they are in, and the baiter just dangled the carrot. It would be incorrect to say that the baiter didn't contribute to the stranded lad's suffering, just as it is incorrect to say that the lads don't contribute to the victim's suffering, but I'm sure most baiters do not consider this moral ambiguity an issue in the bigger picture.

That being said, I believe that the best approach to baiting is the straight-bait in terms of disrupting day to day activities of a lad. After all, why would he go find new victims if a certain Mr. Dover is lined up to pay thousands? By emulating a real victim who always seems to be paying, yet money is never recieving, we also mess with the lads' confidence, hopefully leading them to drop real victims who might show signs of similarity to our characters - whether it's asking questions, not answering a phone or not scanning and ID card properly. Who knows, maybe lads have dropped real victims after a baiter's character seemed so much more inticing.

My only Safari sort of lined itself up and I took the opportunity, he drove across a border and back in a few hours, hardly riveting but he wasted a night waiting for me, a day driving around and probably a good tank of petrol in the process, as well as I assume a few bucks on the phone. I believe that that is really the true essence of bating - wasting a scammer's resources (including that of time) as much as possible. At the same time, I can't help but think what the demise of my cute character would have been had she been real and had inadvertantly gone to visit an internet scammer.

But I advise that you don't even bother thinking about Safaris early in your "baiting career" and of course you should not feel guilty for someone elses actions. And then, if you one day choose to, say, encourage an Accra man to travel to Lagos, I'm sure you will at this stage understand this somewhat morally ambiguous mentality.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 16 May 2010 Posts: 7

ThinkingArthur,

<QUOTE>
It can be easy to forget that you are communicating with humans, even if those humans are doing dispicable things.
</QUOTE>

Thank you. You got the PRECISE nature of what I was talking about. I know that the people actually doing the safari have nothing to do with the characters they write about,nor would I ever send them money.

Techno-

Thanks for the link to the ethics page. I definitely learned a lot from that.

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:12 pm

Hi Lovepotion9

I found your post and indeed this thread very interesting, to feel sorry for the people we bait because of the situations we put them in is human nature, it probably means that you are a decent person as you obviously have feelings. However I agree with all who have posted here. The people we bait are thieves, liars and conmen, they would take your Grand Mothers life savings given half a chance. Whenever I get pangs of guilt about my latest lad missing out on whatever I only have to think of the real victims whose lives have been shattered by him and his co scammers to erase such thoughts.

I found my niche in straight baiting, thats to say wasting as much of there time as possible. Not very glamourous granted but I still get warm and fuzzy glow at times knowing that i'm helping.

Welcome to Eater

Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:48 am

I'm just going to be frank here: They get what they deserve. They play with the emotions of victims just so that they can make an easy buck but in reality , they are causing a lot of psychological damage (especially pretending to be a dying cancer victim just makes me sick!) and must be treated like the other criminals even if they have not physically harmed somebody. Karma is a bitch and many of them will get caught eventually. These people are in fact EVIL people and it's because of these people (Scammers) that make entire countries have a bad name. At first I felt bad but after realising that they STOLE MONEY from innocent people because they are too fat and lazy to make an honest living and these people deserve to baited until they all die (Scammers only). In my opinion: They deserve all the pain and humiliation from the tattoo trophies, and safaris that we put them on. I know this sounds harsh but it is punishment for all the lives lost due to suicide, murder, and eventually becoming just like the person who scammed them to begin with.

Too lazy didn't read: The Lads get what they deserve and they will get their just desserts for all the pain and suffering they caused others. I feel no remorse for them whatsoever.

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