In Need of Serious Advice

By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics and access other forums reserved for members. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today by clicking here.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 8

Hi guys, I had no idea a website like this even existed up until 2hrs ago. I have apparently been involved in an internet scam without my knowledge. My "Lad" (as it seems you folks call them) is named Mark. He offered me a job on careerbuilder.com. It's come to my attention that my resume there was just a playground for scammers, so while I thought "NEAT! A good job! Finally!", I was actually about to bite off more than I could chew.

So for 100% clarity I will post the instructions given to me by my Lad below.

Lad wrote:

TRAINING COURSE BASIC INFORMATION/
The training days don't have to be consecutive (you can make breaks
for one or several days if it's necessary).
Your application was reviewed by the Human Resource Department and your candidacy
was approved. After you complete the free training course company guarantees your
employment within one business day.
Your daily raining wage: $50.00 (the money that you receive in the beginning of each
as compensation for your time and all the expenses associated with the training -
phone, Internet connection etc.). If for technical reasons your training has to be postponed
you receive the training wage as well.
The course is distant, except for two personal meetings with one of company’s managers
in your city. While passing the course you will be permanently assisted by the phone.
While studying, you will permanently move from the easiest to more complicated levels.
Each lesson contains a theoretical and a practical part. Everyday you will receive studying materials that
you should earn and streng then your knowledge by passing tests.
The training course starts with familiarizing with payment systems. During the first three training days you
will get familiarized with all the payment systems that interact with ECSS system. Besides learning theory
you will practice with performing elementary operations (sending/receiving money, depositing on account
etc.) to be able to answer clients questions and consult them in real time.
NOTE: You don’t have to use any personal money for the training purposes. *
The 10-day training course includes the following stages:
Day 1. Initial professional level check. Familiarization with payment systems (MoneyGram, Western Union
Day 2. Paypal. Bank accounts.
Day 3. Other payment systems. Installation of ECSS-Client.
Day 4. ECSS-Client: Requests handling.
Day 5. ECSS-Client: Databases.
Day 6. ECSS-Client: Reports.
Day 7. ECSS: B2B- and B2C- applications.
Day 8. ECSS: Exchanges between payment systems.
Day 9. Workday rehearsal 1..
Day 10. Workday rehearsal 2.

* Money for the training you will receive to an account that you specify along with your daily training wage.
INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE 1ST TRAINING DAY
1. Your personal manager calls you to confirm that everything is ready for the start of y
our training and money for practicing with elementary operations and your training wage are available on the account that you have specified.

2. You call your personal manager after withdrawing the total amount.*
$50 you take for yourself as your personal training wage and the rest of the amount you will use for practicing with MoneyGram and Western Union payment systems.

3. Then you go to the nearest MoneyGram location to perform an international transact
the data from the FORM1 (you will receive the necessary information from your personal
NOTE: You should pay attention to all the details of the process to be able to answer any question about MoneyGram and consult clients in real time.
The Receipt that you get from the MoneyGram managers has to be saved.

Then you contact your personal manager to give out the MoneyGram data for your training partner and to find out the approximate time when you are going to receive the money via Western Union payment system. When your training partner receives your transaction and your personal manager contacts you to give you the data for receiving the money.

4.Then you go to the nearest Western Union branch to receive your partner’s transaction. You will use this money for t he next lesson. The receipt that you receive from Western Union managers should be saved.

NOTE: You should pay attention to all the details of the process to be able to answer any question about Western Union and consult clients in real time.

5. Then you contact your personal manager for receiving the studying materials:Detailed description of how does the ECSS System interact with Western Union and MoneyGram systems ("WU MG theory.doc");
a test form ("TEST1.doc").;
You should answer questions in the test form and send it back to company’s e-mail addres. Some of the questions will concern your practicing for the first training day.

The deadline for sending out the test form: next workday, 6:00 pm.
* The exact amount can’t be specified at the moment since the training money goes from one training person to another by a chain: company send the initial amount to the 1st trainee, he/she takes $50 as the training wage and sends to the 2nd trainee the rest of the amount after deduction of the commission for the transaction; the 2nd then takes $50 and sends to the 3rd trainee the rest minus the commission etc.
(subject to the number of the trainees before you in the training chain, the amount that you receive can be anywhere from $200 to $2000). When training with a payment system you will send money to the next training. That’s why it’s very Important to complete the practical part of the training with payment systems with no delays!

GETTING STARTED
In response to this e-mail please specify the day when you are ready to start the training.

Your personal manager will contact you by the phone to:

ask you the data that can be used for sending you the training wage and money for practice with payment systems*;
- give you the data of your “training partner” (another person passing the training course who will assist you in practicing with payment systems).
- remind you the further instructions in details.
Please make sure to be accessible at the phone numbers that you have provided!
* Bank name, holder name, account number, routing number.

You can specify any bank or credit union account.
The account can be empty (with no money on it) and, if it’s necessary, it can be under another person’s name

– you need only to be able to receive deposits and to withdraw money with no delays.

For those who couldn't be bothered to read the large wall of text, it comes off as money laundering. I receive a wire transfer of a random amount, and move the money via western union to an unknown or undisclosed party who my Lad has entitled a "trainee".

Now it appears I have this all figured out right? So why do I need help?

I've already taken it a step too far, and figured things out a day too late. I opened a bank account in my name (never had one before this entire ordeal) and gave my Lad my bank account details. No big deal there, the account is empty, and even though I intend to keep using it, from my understanding no one can touch the money in the account since they would need passwords, pin numbers, etc. All my Lad has is the account number and routing number to transfer money INTO the account.

SO, the ultimate question here.

Is it wise to scam the scammer? I'll likely be called by my Lad from U.K. (He's got an accent and everything, even a British woman on his answering machine saying the office isn't available) in about 3 hours from the time I make this post. I'm just curious if I should allow him to deposit the money and just take it all for myself, from my understanding it won't be in check form, so there isn't anything to bounce. My Lad doesn't have any personal information on me, aside from my real name and account number, I'm not worried about a 2am knock at my door, also if it's traced back to me, I would have all the evidence in the world to point to a scam I was "unaware" of. I also intend to not spend the money for a few months.

So is this even worth trying? I truly needed a job or I wouldn't have taken things as far as they've gone, and after exciting all my friends and family about this mystical blessing in disguise, I come to find life has taken yet another steaming load on my chest and giggled. I should probably cut my losses and run since I have things figured out... But I just don't want to come out of this empty handed, my Lad has wasted more of my time, than I've wasted his.

Any wise council is appreciated.

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:36 am

Welcome to eater, TS. I scanned the lad's format and my eyes fell on this phrase:

lad wrote:

Then you go to the nearest MoneyGram location to perform an international transact

DING! DING! DING! Scam alert!

He has your personal details. Drop him immediately. He will go away. I would cancel that bank account too before any money shows up in it. If money does get transferred to the account, DON'T TOUCH IT! Report it to the bank and the police. You don't want to put yourself in the position of being involved in a potentially illegal operation.

Sure you can bait this lad but don't do it from your personal account. Read the stickies. Bait safe.

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:15 am

You will never "scam the scammer" like that because the money will be coming from the scammer's victims and therefore you will be part of the criminal conspiracy to defraud. Simple as that.

People in that position who have carried on sending money to the lad and taking their 'wages' have gone to prison for it. You by recieving the cash, and supposedly spending it, will be no different.

As for getting the the scammer to send you money, no, no, no, no. That is cash baiting and in it's own way is just as illegal as scamming.

Edited to add - If he is sending money into the account, it will disappear and you will be left holding the baby as above.

Just follow the advice in the post above.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 8

I'm duely noting all advice, please don't take my questions or inquires as a means to try to make this work for me regardless of the facts pointing at the "Don't do it to yourself" sign.

But how will the money disappear?

I've also been told I can accept the transfer, and not touch the money. Since no one can access the account but me, it will sit there until foul play is cited by myself or the bank. Is this a bad idea?

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:12 pm

I'm not a banking fraud expert or even with basic knowledge of the workings of how it is done. All I know from reading of those more expert than I is that it will. The money will be 'flashed' into the account and then taken out again.

The short answer to your question is yes it is a very bad idea. Not only because you do know how iffy the cash is but also it will show that you have 'profited' from this because if the money stays there it will be in your name.

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:12 pm

If you knowingly allow a criminal (scammer) to use your bank account for his activities, you become complicit in those activities and make yourself vulnerable to prosecution. You need to get away from this - YESTERDAY!

Cease all communications with the scammer, cancel the bank account, and report the attempted use of your account for criminal activity to the bank and to the police.

419Eater is my life Joined: 17 Apr 2010 Posts: 279

Yes it's a bad idea. It's not only a bad idea it is probably a felony. Don't do it. Close the account and stop communicating with the lad.

The money will come from phished paypal accounts, stolen credit cards, fake auctions, phony craigslists, etc. When the real victim finds his money missing they will have a clear trail to YOU.

By accepting the money into your account you are participating in a conspiracy to commit.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 8

Damn, it's not even one of those things you can possibly claim ignorance on I see. Appreciated guys, I'll see to it action is taken. Thank god I found this site before I did anything.

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:20 pm

It's very likely that any money transferred into your account will be from a phished bank account. Leaving you with awkward questions to answer when the fraud is noticed.
So as stated, the safest solution is to tell the bank that a scammer asked you to open it, and have it closed.
The scammer asked for your resume as that is what a real employer would do. There's a possibility of him using it for identity fraud, but he probably won't even bother reading it.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 8

I figured in the event things back fired and I was approached about fraud, I could produce all the documents the scammer sent me as proof of my blissful ignorance. But honestly it just doesn't seem worth the headache at this point, I'll be closing the account asap.

EDIT: Just realized I never thanked anyone, HUGE thanks to all who responded and those who created this website. I'm one of those people who could REALLY use a free lunch, so this scam would've ate me alive, or I would've ate myself alive trying to squeeze money out of a bad situation.

419Eater is my life Joined: 17 Apr 2010 Posts: 279

If you were approached in a fraud investigation the documents could prove your guilt, especially after coming here to research scammers. The investigator would just figure you were trying to keep the money. Scamming the scammers, which is itself a crime.

It would be proof not of your ignorance but your own illegal schemes. You're doing the right and safe thing by closing the account and dropping the lad.

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:38 pm

TitanicSinker wrote:

I figured in the event things back fired and I was approached about fraud, I could produce all the documents the scammer sent me as proof of my blissful ignorance.

The point is that you were not in blissful ignorance and you guessed that there was something iffy. Also that is never looked upon as a reason for innocence.

Unfortunately, those who need a break in life rarely get it. Best of luck.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 8

Ah, but of course I wouldn't reveal I researched the situation. In fact, I was under the impression it was against this forums policy, to acknowledge this forums existence. I planned to uphold that impression. haha

Master Baiter Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 139

I was gonna suggest the same advice: drop the lad, close the account, and if you see the money in there then report it to the bank immediately. The last thing you need is being complicit to fraud and other illegal activities. Events of this nature ALWAYS bite someone in the ass.

419Eater is my life Joined: 17 Apr 2010 Posts: 279

TitanicSinker wrote:

Ah, but of course I wouldn't reveal I researched the situation. In fact, I was under the impression it was against this forums policy, to acknowledge this forums existence. I planned to uphold that impression. haha

If you came under investigation for computer fraud the first thing they would do is take your hard drive. Then you'd really be up shit creek for not revealing your research. It would point further to your guilt.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7103 Location: Yes

While all the advice has been good, I wouldn't leap to the conclusion that you are an accessory to a crime just yet. Wink

Simply drop all contact, close the account, and chalk the experience up to one of misguided enthusiasm. It happens all the time unfortunately, and you were lucky that you aren't out any money or in trouble with your bank.

If there is money in the account, then you need to think through your next steps more carefully. Do not just get on the line with customer assistance and start blathering on about the scam. You will want a face-to-face conversation with a real human who you can explain things to, but again, consider what has happened and be sure to explain it in a way that makes sense and does not implicate you.

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:32 pm

Thinking from the real victims (the one whose money is going to appear in your account) perspective, wouldn't it be a good idea to just report this whole affair to your bank (and police?) but not necessarily close the account?

I've been in a situation where I switched banks (because of differences in interest on my savings) and they offered some sort of transferservice which basically meant that all money that was sent to my old account would be redirected to my new account, giving me time to update that account number everywhere and monitor who I had forgotten to tell about the new account number. However, apparently they activated that service for a bank account that differed just 1 number from my old account (impossible with normal account numbers (where you'd need to change at least 2 numbers to get a valid account) but possible with that bank's numbers). This meant that while all money still came into my new account, all money that came into the other account was redirected to my new account. I noticed this at first when money was deducted from my account for a life insurance that I didn't have, I contacted the bank about this and they said they'd fix it.
Apparently they didn't, as not too much later I received the other guy's salary at which moment I called them again and they promised me again that they'd fix it. The weird transfers to and from my account stopped a few days later I only still had the guys salary, though I figured they'd fix that as well and didn't bother about it.
One week later I got a phonecall from the other guys employer asking if I'd please send the salary that I had accidentally received back. I explained the situation and then called my bank to make an appointment. Went over there and had a nice conversation with one of the employees, together we called the owner of the other account and summed up what money of his I had received and which of his 'bills' had been paid from my account then calculated the difference and asked if he'd agree to me transferring that amount and leaving it at that. He agreed, the bank employee did the transfer for me and noted it in my file there as proof that the situation had been resolved.

If, in this case, the account would be left open to receive the money. The bank can then call the victim('s bank) and explain the situation and transfer the money back. If this is a phished account or cc or something similar, it might get them to warn the victim of this phishing activity and save him some money.

ETA: Especially if police and bank were notified of the fact that you caught on to this being a scam just a second to late but appear willing to help to fix the situation, I can't really see how anyone could reasonably blame you of any wrongdoing. NOTE: the word 'reasonably' applies here.

ETA: Note that I'm not _advising_ anything in this post, it's just a course of action that I wanted to offer for discussing.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 8

Thank you master of puppets, very insightful.

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:08 pm

^ is good sense Smile

Having caught on, you do the right thing and drop the swine and his money. You'll never see it anyway, he'll flash the account with a stolen or fake cheque, or for real short-term high jinks deposit an envelope full of newspaper into an ATM and declare it as an amount of cash. Always remember, stolen money stays stolen.

moving on, grab a gmail account and start twisting his head Twisted Evil

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 1440

Nothing much to add except for in the future, if you ever see the words "Western Onion" or "Moneygrab" in correspondance, run the other way. No reputable firm would ever request payment that way.

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:38 pm

Hi TitanicSinker

is it possible to publish the lad's email account?

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:50 pm

yes please, mek i send juju for am, na im amu don wither away.

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:51 pm

Hi TitanicSinker!
Welcome to Eater! I hope that you stick around.
I am so glad that you found this forum and didn't get scammed. I hope that you soon find a real job with a great wage.
"Fartina"

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 8

I was contacted by a Blanca Martinez from the address "[email protected]". I was suspicious of that at first, but there actually is a company called Advanced Assets Group, so I stopped looking into it. The more and more I look at all the facts I've received from these people over the last few days, the dumber I feel about not figuring it all out sooner. I'm only sad it's not their money and I can't turn the tables. That would've been a huge win to me. Sad

EDIT: So I just looked at my original post and noticed someone took out the word Obama? I voted for him, but are politics taboo here? Sorry if so, still new here.

(I thought that was good humor...)

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:48 pm

Anyways, welcome to the site and enjoy your stay.

Yes, politics are a bit of a taboo here because by the end of any political or religious discussion we will be trying to rip each others throats out. In some many other sites political discussions tend to go nuclear extremely quickly. Before I joined here I used to belong to a first person shooter user forum. A new player wanted to start up a game clan called Red Republic - he liked the sound of the name. The personal abuse got very ugly, very quickly. We want to try and avoid that.

Enjoy your stay.

In Need of Serious Advice	View next topic View previous topic