Need help for my mom

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Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:02 pm

Hi, I'm new to the forum so please bear with me.
My mother has fallen victim to the nigerian scams REPEATEDLY.
She is 67 and lives alone and I don't know how to help her.

She has been doing this for a very long time, and by the time I found out about it her house was already in forclosure proceedings. I'm not sure how many hundreds of thousands of dollars she has sent.

I thought she had learned a lesson when she had to quickly sell her house for far less than it was worth to keep from forclosure, but I found out today that she borrowed $5000 against her car to send them AGAIN.
I yelled at her for awhile and tried to calm down and get some answers, which she wouldn't go into great detail. It has been a couple of years since she sold her house, so I don't know how long she has been doing it this time. I asked her how much money she has sent this time and she just started crying and said that she doesn't know.

I called an attorney and explained the situation, and he said that if she doesn't agree to sign over power of attorney there is little that I can do. I can take her to court and try to have her declared incompetent, but he said that it is very costly, and is very hard to have someone declared incompetent.

Other than driving to her house and smashing her computer to bits, does anyone have any ideas of what to do? I'm at a loss and about to lose control on her.

Thanks for listening!
Sally

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:11 pm

Ugh!

Unfortunately I don't think there is much you can do. As far as recovering any money, that is 99.999999999% unlikely.

Other than posting your stories here, you should also go to scamwarners.com.

It also may seem draconian, but at this point you perhaps should consider confiscating her computer, and only letting her use it under your supervision.

Also, if you can get her to give you the login details of her email account, chances are all the correspondence between her and the scammers are probably still there. At which point you can post the initial scammer's email here (along with the headers).

Still, that really really REALLY sucks. I wish there was something else, but there isn't. Sad

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:25 pm

Hi scrappinsally and welcome to 419eater

I am so sorry for what has happened to your mother. Please post any details you have of the scammers, both here and at http://scamwarners.com/ . It will help other to not become victims. Again I am so sorry for what has happened to your mother and you.

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:25 pm

That's exactly what I was afraid of. Wishful thinking on my part I guess.
Thanks for the response.
I think bringing her computer to my house and monitoring her is a good idea. Also, though I need to get her to let me pay her bills and give her the left over money every month so that she doesn't lose what she has left.
The challenge is talking her into it!
Thanks for your help
Sally

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:27 pm

I guess the only way for me to get the details of the scammers would be through her email account. She says that they do everything online and through money wires.
I'll see what I can find out.
Sally

Just a little rant... I just can't believe that she fell for this the first time much less again and again! I'm in total awe. I just can't get over it. HOW could she do this again? But here I am again to pick up the pieces for her.

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:29 pm

Hello Sally, welcome to eater.

I'm sorry to hear what is happening with your mother. I know from first hand experience how hard it is when someone you care about is being tricked by scammers. I know how hard it can be to convince them, especially when they truly believe the scammers.

As others said, I'd advise you to visit our sister site, scamwarners.com. Over there you can find people more experienced with victim support. I am sure that the very nice staff there will help you along.

You could give us some data on the scammer, so we can give some points to show her it's a fake, but when she is sucked in like that it can be tough to convince her of their true intentions.

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 5727

Sally, welcome to Eater. Sorry it had to be under these circumstances.

To add to what others have said, you need to be aware that your mom is now a prime candidate for a "recovery" scam. Under this scam the scammers will contact the victim, claiming to be with an official agency that has recovered money and is authorized to make a payout to victims. Naturally there is an upfront fee involved, and naturally there was no money actually recovered. These will be the same people that had scammed your mom previously. Yes, they are real bastards.

Do the scammers have your moms phone number? I'm guessing that they probably do. This makes things tougher, as they will call her repeatedly.

I am so very sorry to hear about your situation.

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:56 pm

Hi scrappinsally, I'm sorry about your ordeal. I wish I could say this is the first time I've heard of such a thing, but I'm afraid it's fairly common, and a condition scammers rely on.

As others suggested, if you can monitor her internet activity, that might help you to deter her, but bear in mind, the scammers won't let go of their steady paycheck so easily. If she's sent money before, they are probably in phone contact.

If she has been scammed before, it's quite possible the same gang is targeting her with new characters and pretexts. Not that it matters much.

Sharing details of the scammers with people here or at ScamWarners may help us to find things that may help convince your mother she is dealing with thieves, but as you probably already know, there is very little chance of her ever recovering her money. That said, there is no harm in contacting law enforcement in your area.

You/she should be on the look out for recovery scams. It is common for scammers to try to re-hook their victims by posing as law enforcement and promising to recover money... for a fee, of course.

I'm guessing you are already familiar with many of their tactics, but this thread at ScamWarners is probably worth a read: Click.

Scammers suck. Evil or Very Mad

Edit: Jayhawk is quick.

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:19 pm

We all like to have a laugh and a joke about the things we do hear, and yes it is damn funny, but I think we often lose sight of why we do it.

Stories like this one really paint a picture on just how low these bastards are, how they will stop at nothing and have no compassion or honour.

I am very sorry your mother has had to go through this treatment and loss, and I'm sure we all wish there was something that could be done, but short of having these bastards baited and humiliated and have them waste time on us, I don't believe there is anything that can be done to change your situation. and it hurts to say that. Stories like yours give me a good reason to check my email everyday and mess with who ever I can, even if it is only in the hopes of stopping one scammer from bleeding someone dry.

I'm not going to offer more advice, I would only be echoing those before me, but I am deeply sorry this happened, I wish you all the best for the future and the recovery process.

And to anyone who questions the things we put scammers through, and question our morals.... I hope you understand now.

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:27 pm

scrappinsally, I am so sorry to read your story. I can truly empathize but in a slightly different way. My mother-in-law is being "taken to the cleaners" financially but not by email scammers. She is being bilked by her own son. There are few people lower than scammers but this qualifies in my book. If ripping off your own mother isn't the very definition of a low-life POS I don't know what is. Mad

The core of my mother-in-law's problem is probably the same as with your mother - she just no longer thinks rationally and is easily convinced to do things that are not in her best interest. No amount of discussion, logic, or evidence makes an impact on my mother-in-law once she decides to do something. It is a tragic thing to see and, just as you have, my wife and I have tried everything under the sun to put a stop to it - without success.

At least you can eliminate her computer. We don't have that option with my scumbag brother-in-law.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 47

That's really terrible. I'm sorry you and your mother have to go through this.

My best friend's mom fell for a check scam, after I told her it was a scam, explained how it worked, and gave her documentation about it. It's difficult to understand why some people ignore your warnings, knowing there's little you can do to protect them.

But, I would say that she's lucky to have you as a daughter. Good luck.

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:19 pm

I want to thank everyone so much for your responses. You don't know how great it is to know that at least someone is on my side.

I have decided to go to her house first thing in the morning and tell her that I spoke with an attorney and lie a little bit. Why not, she believes the nigerians. I'll tell her that what she's doing is against the law and that if she doesn't give me her computer and let me take a look at all of her bills that I'll take her to court and get it done anyway.

And hopefully she won't put up to much of a fight. We'll see.

Also, I'll find out as much as I can about the scammers and post it here and on the scammer site. I'll be scamming nigerians myself soon. I like how everyone here thinks!

I'm just sick about all of this, and every one of your comments are much appreciated. Thank you. And thanks for understanding and not just thinking my mom's a loon.

Raga man, it is really too bad that you can't eliminate your brother in law! Wink

Thanks again everyone!
Sally

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:33 pm

I'm sorry that you found Eater this way Scrappinsally but welcome to you all the same.

I am not going to give you any advice as the others have already said it.
I do feel for you and although I am lucky in the fact that this hasn't affected my personal life (apart from too much time spent in Eater Smile

)
I am aware of how people react to these scams and how they find it hard to believe that they are a victim.

We can't turn back the clock but I hope that we can help as much as possible and please visit scamwarners.com to relate this situation. It may help you and your family. Importantly, it may help others before they incure any losses.

Edit: "incur any losses" (I hate bad spelling).

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:45 pm

You could try telling her local police. They may be prepared to have a word with her.
There's no easy way to deal with a situation like this, I'm afraid.

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:31 pm

As others have said, this is always a bad position to be in. If you are going to take this approach, be prepared to deal with any fallout. One of the tactics used by these scammers is isolation--they make a lot of effort to convince the victim that the rest of the world (family included) is out to get them. They want to remove the victim from any support network that might be able to intervene. Chances are that for some time, they have been working to convince her that you don't love her, don't understand her, don't want her to be happy, that they are the only ones who really want to help her...

They will definitely be in phone contact with her. If you can manage to place a block on her phone (if she has no legitimate foreign business, see if you can block incoming and outgoing international calls) that might help. You can also try changing her phone number, but if she is that hooked, she will simply contact them with the new number. Also be on the lookout for any signs that she has a cell phone you weren't aware of--sometimes scammers will even provide a cellphone to victims to make it easier for them to keep them in constant contact.

Having a warner from scamwarners contact her is not a bad idea, as they can act as neutral parties and have lots of experience with victims and the types of scams (you didn't indicate the type of scam--lottery scams tend to be most common when the victim is elderly, but we do see all kinds of scams used). And the more info we have on the individual scammers, the better our odds of collecting compelling evidence to present to her.

As suggested, contacting local police is also a good idea, especially if she is living in a smaller community. Sometimes the police are willing to have a talk with a victim, and often victims will take a warning from a police officer more seriously than a warning from a family member.

If she has lost a large sum of money, you should also file a report with the secret service. They are actually the office that handles advance fee fraud.

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:36 am

scrappinsally, I'm sorry this happen to your mother and I wish you luck at getting her to see the truth.

If you find the info needed, he/she's will live a miserable life. Twisted Evil

We would love to have you here, as we need all the help that we can get. Wink

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:38 am

scrappinsally, I'm very sorry to hear about it and I hope that with all the tips given by the other eaters, her (and your) life eventually will become normal again.

For myself, I first came on this site after a phonelad was trying to scam me. From the first moment I knew it was a scam, and tried to find a website to warn other people. So I came on this site and found a "fun" way to deal with these scumbags. But reading this story I see that this is not only fun but dead-serious. Offcourse we will never stop them, but some of them will have awful experience. And hopefully another (possible)victim saved.

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:15 pm

Scam victims like this get themselves into a situation where they feel their only option is to continue being scammed, while they are a scam victim they are still a (Lottery winner / inheritance recipient / spouse / business partner / ect) who has their long awaited pay day just around the corner, often, the victim may know that some things dont add up but to admit they will be admitting they are no longer the (see above list) rather they suddenly become a scam victim.

By this stage, the victim has normally lost many friends, she could be borrowing from them and not paying them back or maybe she has just gotten sick of them doubting how "clever" she is in being able to be involved in such a transaction.

To her, facing them and admitting she was wrong all along may be just as hard as admitting all the money she has sent is gone.

For many victims, they will never accept they are a victim.

The above strategies are good, but you need to understand how she is thinking and why she continues to be a victim and the best way is to offer another alternative, give her a way out.

She will be desperate by now and not know what else to do except to cling to the hope that she is not a scam victim and to keep that dream alive she will keep sending money, even if it means selling everything she has, borrowing from friends or like many others, turn to stealing in order to keep the dream alive.

You have to have a strategy to be effective here and I will not try and tell you it will be easy as that would be a lie, it will be bloody hard.

First step, plan your strategy, that may involve letting her move in with you until she gets herself sorted, that way she can get herself back on her feet and begin to regain at least a portion of her former life, she needs to have some hope and it sounds like you are the only person who may be able to give her more hope than her scammers.

Smashing the computer is not a bad idea but dont be fooled into thinking that will stop her, amonst other places, librarys have free internet access and many victims dont even own a computer thanks to free internet access, smashing the computer will only be an inconvenience

To those at Scamwarners and to many of us here, this story is all too familiar.

I do wish you luck and restate the best advice which is to contact the people at Scamwarners who have unfortunately been here many times.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 13

When I read the stories on here it makes me wish there was more that can be done to go after these guys.

Sally it will not help your situation at all, but it might help you feel just the tiniest bit better if you want to go through the forum and read the success stories that the good baiters on here have compiled. When they are stranded with no money in a different country it is hilarious. Some of the pictures the nigerians have sent on request are also good for a laugh.

I know that you as a victim or family of one, don't find this situation funny and I don't mean to give the impression that I do, its just good to see when they get some of the crap done to them that they dish out to helpless victims like your mom.

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 1440

scrappinsally, so sorry to hear you're going through this heartbreaking and frustrating situation.

Unfortunately, as has been said, many scam victims adamantly refuse to stop sending money, no matter how much evidence they're shown that it's a scam. They're sure the next sum they send will bring the rewards they've been promised. It's kind of how some people lose everything they own in Las Vegas.

I don't see how you can confiscate the computer of a mature and mentally sound woman. If she's desperate enough to continue dealing with the scammers she'll could call the police and accuse you of theft.

The suggestion of having the police talk to her might help, if they're willing. Sometimes having someone seen as an authority figure might get through to her, but don't seriously count on it.

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:37 pm

Sally, thanks for coming to the forum for help.

As others have said, your mother is so deeply vested in the prospect of a big windfall that she has lost all perspective of reality. Actually, it is also used by baiters against lads who believe that they have a big payday if they follow their "victim's" instructions to travel, take a picture, get a tatoo, etc.

I recommend the link in this thread (first message by Spot).

http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1451791&highlight=#1451791

It's a documentary that you will probably find very familiar. It gave me some good insight into the victim mindset.

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:46 pm

Sally, is there anyone in your mother's life whose advice and counsel she will take seriously? Perhaps a pastor or priest, or someone she turns to on occasion?

If there is such a person, I would go first privately to that person and explain the situation. Ask that person to go with you to your mother and tell her (1) that she is being scammed; (2) that she will not be getting that money back; and (3) that no one thinks any less of her for having been tricked. It's important that you (and the other person) emphasize that your opinion of her intelligence and honesty has not changed, and that you still love her.

Being a scam victim can in many ways be similar to being an addict. The victim needs to go through withdrawal, and may return to the addictive behavior if not monitored. The suggestion to have her move in with you for a while has its merits. Alternatively, a friend who is wise to the ways of scammers could move in with her for a time.

You certainly have our support and compassion, as does your mother. Smile

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:26 pm

First of all, I would like to thank everyone again for all of your comments, ideas, sympathy, and help. You really gave me the courage and ammunition to really stand up to my mom and lay everything on the line.

First, I'll tell you a few things so you will know what I'm talking about when you read what happened. The first time she pulled this a few years ago, she put two mortgages on her home. The house was worth $300,000. The house went into forclosure before I found out what was going on, but I called the mortgage company, and they allowed us time to sell the house. We sold at a huge loss, $150,000, which barely covered the mortgage.
She also ran up several credit cards (I lost track of the total) and was in collections with all of the credit card companies.
She spent over $60,000. of my grandmothers money (who is in a nursing home)
When all was done and said, we had to move her in here for about 6 months until we found a cheap house for her to buy close to us.
Recently, not too long before christmas, she asked me to cosign a loan for her. I was out of town, so I called and asked my husband to meet her at the bank, and he signed for her. $5000. We truly thought that she had learned a lesson from losing a house, etc.

Which brings us to a couple of days ago when I started suspecting that she was up to no good with the money because she was flat broke after just getting 5 grand a couple of months ago.
I went to her house yesterday, and things were actually worse than I imagined. Here's what happened:

When I got there, I said I'm here to help you fix all of your crap. She tried to get defensive and crappy with me. "What crap would that be?"
Your nigerian crap, that's what crap.

Basically, I told her that I had talked to a lawyer and he said that since she was a repeat offender of falling into the scams, and lost a house, spent other peoples money, that it would be no problem having her declared incompetent. And that if it went that far, I would involve her brothers and sister who don't yet know that she spent their mother's money.
So I told her that she had the option to do everything I told her, and I wouldn't take her to court. At first she was pretty pissy, but decided it would be in her best interest to do what I said.

I currently have her computer at my house. While I was at her house, I called and had the internet turned off, and had her phone number changed.
I talked her into letting me help her with her finances until everything was straightened out. I have all of her bills, and all of her banking info so I can monitor her account.
I got the passwords to all 3 of her email accounts, and promptly changed the passwords, so even if she goes to the library, she can't get into them. I know it won't stop her if she really wants to, but it will deter her.
I found out that she has taken out 2 payday loans for around 500. and another loan some where around 2000. Plus some credit card bills. I haven't gone through everything yet, so there is probably more.

I told her that I was sorry that it had come to this, but I really wanted to help her befor she lost everything and everyone. She cried and really acted grateful for the help.
Right before I left, I asked her if she had money for groceries until I got her banking figured out because I don't want her spending any money out of there until everything is sorted out. She told me that a lady from one of the payday loan places came by to collect the other day, and mom started crying and told the lady that she didn't have money to pay her, that she didn't even have enough money to buy groceries. The next day the lady came with a bunch of groceries for her.
I was heartbroken. I asked her why she didn't tell me she didn't have any groceries, and she said that she was too ashamed.
Today, I'm calling the lady to thank her and pay her back.

I know this was terribly long, thanks for reading it. I'm getting ready to go through her emails, and get all of the scammers info to post on here.

Thanks again everybody!!!

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:32 pm

Thanks for the update. It sounds like a royal mess, but she's lucky to have you.

I think your story is an excellent illustration of how the damage done by scammers is not limited to their victims. Occasionally, we get callous people here who feel that anyone who falls for a scam deserves what they get. Of course, I don't agree with that sentiment, but for those who do, I can't imagine they believe friends, relatives, coworkers, Payday collectors who dig into their own pockets, etc., deserve to get snared in the ordeal.

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:22 pm

Good luck with straightening out the financial mess. You may already know this but I will mention it just in case you don't. If there are a bunch of credit card bills and things she can't pay you will start getting hounded by collection people. These folks can be VERY aggressive and will make you and your mother's life a living hell. they may try to drag other family members into it as well. Sometimes these collection people will cross legal boundaries in their efforts to squeeze money out of you. You would do well to get some professional advice on these kinds of things so you can be well armed to defend yourself.

Again, I'm very sorry for your predicament. Best of luck to you.