Keshe Space Foundation scam

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Not quite a Newb Joined: 11 Jan 2010 Posts: 31

I dont mind if he just says it is a theory. But selling tickets to space is not ethical. I studied CIMA accountancy and learned about ethics. This man is breaking the code of ethics in business. He can say he has a theory and those who agree can buy his book and donate to the cause. But selling tickets is over the top.

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 689

So it's okay to sell tickets for space flight if you base your technology on the currently possible and vaguely understandable technology like that of Sir Richard Branson's plans but not if you base it on something you (or us other mere ignorami) don't understand.

How about if he said "warp drive" ??????

As for your problem with trust in other people I hate to think how you will get on with a potential life partner ....

You need hard facts Spock123 not personal belief even if I am strongly on the side of Fraud/scam in this case.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 11 Jan 2010 Posts: 31

Its true I am suffering from depression and schizophrenia and have trust problems but that is not the issue here. As for warp drive actually he says his system is capable of going faster than light and can travel to other galaxies in hours. How does he know? He hasn't tested a working spaceship and he already knows how fast it will go. Also he has not got his papers peer reviewed. He has provided no maths to support his theory. He just uses fancy and new terms. It looks like a put up job to me. Actually initially I believed him but then one day while on the forum I just gave a suggestion that he should provide some videos of the reactor operating on the website so as to speed up adoption of the technology. The guy went beserk on me. He scolded me and said I was criticising him and if I didn't believe him I should get off his forum.
This made me suspicious. Even after I apologised he still scolded me once again. Just for suggesting he show videos. This made me very suspicious.

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:12 pm

N N N wrote:

So it's okay to sell tickets for space flight if you base your technology on the currently possible and vaguely understandable technology like that of Sir Richard Branson's plans but not if you base it on something you (or us other mere ignorami) don't understand.

Sir Richard Branson does not throw scientific-sounding terms together as marketing speak that don't make any real sense. The matter/antimatter/dark matter reactor is the best example here. Taken from simple.wikipedia.org for those who may not be astrophysicists:

Quote:

Antimatter is stuff within the universe that is the equal and opposite of matter. It looks just like matter and acts just like matter, but cannot touch matter. If the matter and the anti matter touch they will explode and both cease to exist.

In other words, you can't put them in a reactor together, and anyone who claims to have done it is full of crap.

Branson has already built and tested his spacecraft, and it's much more provable that it exists and works. For example, the picture of it isn't obviously drawn by a 12-year-old and inspired by a flying saucer. The technology behind it is solid and based on already existing spacecraft. A comparison between this guy and Branson is contrived and irrelevant.

And so what if Spock123 has something against this guy? Don't we all have something against someone? He's not a bad person for attempting to take down a scam most of the others here won't touch, or for crossposting to a few other forums where others who might have the knowledge might also take up the same fight.

Minor update: GoDaddy responded to redirect me to another email address where I should send my complaint. Done.

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 689

^^^ Yep his is a much better scam, far more beleivable. Smile

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:00 pm

This is an AFF and a person's delusional state does nothing for a victim. The deposits are not fully refundable. I wonder if the 5k Euro weightless experience option is refundable. The point is that the science involved is similar to that of a wash-wash scam. I've seen websites built by scammers that describe in similar detail the chemical properties of their product.
Where I come from its very illegal to collect taxes without a license. Its also illegal to obtain income without paying taxes. I found it interesting that the shorter flight has a 19% tax on it but the trip to the moon does not. He wants 21% tax for his book. I wonder if the Belgium government would be interested?

Edit to add=
This is his email - [email protected]
You have to tell him in advance if you want chicken, beef, fish or the vegetarian meal option. Meals are included but alcohol is not. I will ask if he charges a corkage fee. I would never consider going to the moon and not opening up a nice bottle of champagne. What else are we going to do while we spend two hours looking at Neil Armstrong's footsteps.
He does accept WU.

Quote:

You also can use an alternative to pay by a transfer with Western Union. Make in that case the transfer to "Mehran Tavakoli Keshe - Belgium" and email the password to us.

What about pimping out his FAX number to scammers and saying that its your SAT phone. The FAX rings, the scammer hears some tones, loses credits and your bait progresses. Everyone wins. Laughing

Belgium
32478493628

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:17 pm

amandahuggenkiss wrote:

That's what I meant. You don't have hard evidence that he's afraud, it's just "most likely".

Like I said earlier, I really wouldn't have a problem with him spouting off cobbled-together technobabble on a website. I'm from a technical background myself as the name suggests (although I won't claim any knowledge of building spacecraft!), so it would be good entertainment Wink

But this guy is using his patched-up story to take people's money on a promise he can't deliver on. That's the part that bugs me.
If there are people who'll fall for a scam E-mail with mangled spelling and grammar from the other side of the world, then there are inevitably people who'll fall for what is a very professional looking site to anyone without the scientific knowhow to realise that it's wrong.
I'm not saying he might not truly believe what he's saying, but he needs to be prevented from taking money over it.

If he does really believe this, he sounds more like one of those bizarre cult leaders actually.
People like that make me nervous Shocked

@Connie
Would using his fax number in a bait be veering close to the ITP rule?
(Not sure of that, but I'm wary of making that mistake if it is)

Not quite a Newb Joined: 11 Jan 2010 Posts: 31

Richard Bransons technology has been proven and has also won the X prize. You cant compare Richard Branson with MT Keshe. I havent heard MT Keshe won the X prize.

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:47 am

Just got a reply from PayPal. Classic example of them not reading what I wrote.

me wrote:

First, let me say that neither I nor anyone I know has sent any money to this person. I am merely reporting something that is obviously a scam which is making use of PayPal's services.

PayPal wrote:

Please follow the instructions below to report any suspicious activity associated with your PayPal account:

They then proceeded to give me instructions for disputing a charge in my account. They also did this when quoting my original message:

Quote:

We recently had a scam site (http://www.keshespace.com/) brought to us for investigation (forum thread at http://forum.###eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=######). I have posted a longer review in that thread, with the username foo###, in the second and fourth posts

Sigh. I'll keep trying...

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:56 am

^^^
Did you report it here? https://www.paypal.com/ewf/f=sa_fake

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:59 am

^^ Yes, that's the page I used (although I did it with my non-baiter email; I had a good reason for this but I forgot it).

My reply:

Quote:

(CC'ing to [email protected] as I'm not sure whether replies to this address are monitored, and I want this message to make it to at least one person.)

As I said in my original message, neither I nor anyone else I know has actually dealt with this site, and therefore I have no transaction to dispute. I was only reporting clear abuse of PayPal's services which has, as far as I can tell, gone unnoticed for months.

Also, it seems that somewhere, something converted all the numbers in my message to #. The correct URL to the forum thread is:

http://forum.[FOUR ONE NINE]eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=[ONE SEVEN SEVEN SEVEN FOUR TWO]

And the URL to the rogue site is, again:

http://www.keshespace.com/

Please look into this site. Thank you.

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:06 am

^^^
Well done!
They might be forced into action if a bunch of us reported it.
We can't do a mass bait but we could do a mass complaint...

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:16 am

I wouldn't mind additional complaints being sent in, but good luck getting past the canned responses. Also the Martian flag in the signature is mine Very Happy

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:59 am

@Technomancer-
This space lad (splad?) is not an ITP. Someone needs to get an investigative media organization on him.

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:31 am

Connie L. Gus wrote:

Where I come from its very illegal to collect taxes without a license. Its also illegal to obtain income without paying taxes. I found it interesting that the shorter flight has a 19% tax on it but the trip to the moon does not. He wants 21% tax for his book. I wonder if the Belgium government would be interested?

He is asking the belgian tax for his book
His space flight however is going by the dutch rate (19% instead of 21%).
I think his book is 21% because he is selling it via a Belgian company (unibook). Actually , i have no clue why he is charging 21% on his website.
The paypal account might also only be for the selling of his book (unibook requires you to have a paypal account).
It might be some minor tax evasion. I'm not sure if the foundation has been so kind of telling the Belgian goverment (or the Dutch) that kesh is running a bussiness from Belgium. I can't see that because the dutch Kamer van Koophandel charges for asking any records on the company. Then again , i'm no lawyer/booky so might be wrong about the tax evasion. My basic course didn't cover it.

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:52 am

Dennis Lee has been pulling this same old s**t for decades.

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:17 pm

auguste wrote:

Connie L. Gus wrote:

Where I come from its very illegal to collect taxes without a license. Its also illegal to obtain income without paying taxes. I found it interesting that the shorter flight has a 19% tax on it but the trip to the moon does not. He wants 21% tax for his book. I wonder if the Belgium government would be interested?

He is asking the belgian tax for his book
His space flight however is going by the dutch rate (19% instead of 21%).
I think his book is 21% because he is selling it via a Belgian company (unibook). Actually , i have no clue why he is charging 21% on his website.
The paypal account might also only be for the selling of his book (unibook requires you to have a paypal account).
It might be some minor tax evasion. I'm not sure if the foundation has been so kind of telling the Belgian goverment (or the Dutch) that kesh is running a bussiness from Belgium. I can't see that because the dutch Kamer van Koophandel charges for asking any records on the company. Then again , i'm no lawyer/booky so might be wrong about the tax evasion. My basic course didn't cover it.

If he's charging the Dutch BTW tax then he must be registered with the Dutch chamber of commerce. If he is he must have a KVK number and is obliged to put that number in every letter he writes and sends, thus allso his emails. I'm not sure but he could allso be obliged to put that number on his website. If you have the KVK number you can check it at the KVK site for free. If you don't have the number but just a name it's gonna be difficult. Tomorrow i have an appointment with the KVK and i could ask some questions. Maybe when i'm registered i can find out some more.

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:48 am

Looks like I've gotten somewhere with PayPal.

Quote:

Dear Mike Smith,

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

We appreciate the report of possible fraud with one of our users. We
will investigate the issue immediately. Please be assured, if we do
confirm the user is committing a scam or fraudulent acts, we will take
appropriate actions. Due to the privacy of our users' accounts, these
findings are not shared with the person who reports it, unless a claim
is filed.

Still nothing from GoDaddy.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 11 Jan 2010 Posts: 31

Glad you managed to get paypal to investigate Kesh. What we need is to get some real good journalist to check out this company an investigative journalist. These free energy antigravity and UFO propulsion guys are just making fun of the people. They cant say something false. I believe a man must stand by his word and not tell lies. The world is such a frustrating place and these guys even make it worse by promising phony stuff and then nothing materialises.

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:49 am

@the vampire

Quote:

The Keshe Foundation is a fully independent research organization after Dutch Law. The official name is: "Stichting The Keshe Foundation".

The registered office is located in The Netherlands, new address: Jubileumplein 3, NL-6161 SR Geleen.
The registration number is: KvK Nr.14089728 . The related online file can be found on the website of the Kamer van Koophandel of The Netherlands at: http://www.kvk.nl/handelsregister

The sole director of the Foundation is Ir. Mehran Tavakoli Keshe, the founder.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 11 Jan 2010 Posts: 31

I checked out the link provided. It turned out to be a broken link. Anyway an organisation run by only one person is obviously just a fake organisation. Even I can set up a research organisation in London or Denmark or anywhere else. But he is breaking the law by selling tickets to space without a spaceship and must be stopped.

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:28 am

Fixed the link for you. And an organisation can perfectly be run by one person. Its taxing , but one-man bussinesses can become something great.
And by that i don't mean that this person's claims of going to space are valid.

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:59 pm

Checked the kvk number online and it shows non exsistent.
Could be a bug on the site as the people at the kvk are not allways that bright. They didn't make a note of my appointment so i went there for nothing! Evil or Very Mad

The tax rate for public transport is 6% and not 21% or 19%. Or is it rated thesame way as amusement parks.

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:02 pm

@ vampire
The site (kvk) search gives me back this : ( i searched on kesh)
Naam: Stichting the Keshe Foundation
Vestigingsadres: Jubileumplein 3
Vestigingsplaats: 6161SR Geleen
KvK-nummer: 14089728
Soort Inschrijving: Rechtspersoon

Not quite a Newb Joined: 11 Jan 2010 Posts: 31

Keshe claims he will demonstrate his device to scientists. How come I have heard no scientists have come forward supporting him. Also he can demonstrate it to someone like Richard Branson. The fact is he has no device only the cola bottle which is a pure fraud. A person like Richard Branson or any scientists wont fall for the cola bottle experiment.

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