One of the reasons I do what I do here

By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics and access other forums reserved for members. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today by clicking here.

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:23 am

Local news here. Sun City couple scammed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Link of news video below. My heart aches when I see this type of thing.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Sun-City-couple-scammed-out-of-hundreds-of-thousands-of-dollars-80023332.html

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:11 am

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:56 am

That sucks.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

They're losing their home. Crying or Very sad

According to the news person, advice on how to not be scammed: "Don't leave valuables in your car" Question

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:24 pm

Ima Baeder wrote:

They're losing their home. Crying or Very sad

According to the news person, advice on how to not be scammed: "Don't leave valuables in your car" Question

I saw that too and didn't understand the relationship to the story. But then the reporter (Frank) is not the sharpest crayon on the box either.

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:39 pm

That just makes me angry and sad. And it makes me want to abuse the first random lad to come my way. Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:47 pm

Wow. You know, I always knew that it hurt when people lost money to scammers, I just didn't think it would something SO hard and tough. Even though people should know better, it's still sad to see such stories. Crying or Very sad

Oh I hope those Jamaican scammers cross paths with us because I'm pretty sure we will give them pure hell. Twisted Evil

Not quite a Newb Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 39

Sad story for sure. I'm wondering something . . . not that it is the responsibility of Western Union to keep track of the money sent by people . . . but . . . wouldn't you think someone at the WU office would have questioned this couple about repeatedly sending money to Jamaica? And, knowing about scams, I wonder if any of the WU employees thought to intervene.

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:01 pm

Western Union outlets aren't staffed by WU employees. Usuially it's just a side line.
There's a computer shop near me with a WU sign in the window, and they get commission on each transaction. I doubt they do much WU business though.
Some agents must warn victims though, as lads sometimes tell victims to lie about the reason for the payment.

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:02 pm

The only place in this small town to make a WU transfer is a travel agency, staffed by bored school leavers. Off goes the money! We can't blame the staff though, any more than we can blame the clerk at the bank the money is drawn from.

Another sad story. I see someone's posted about the couple's 'greed' on that page, but given their age and their evident hopes for their family, I'm not sure that applies. What about the lads' greed? Mad

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:54 pm

If the reporting is accurate, the scam occured over three years.
During this time the couples' two sons repeatedly warned their parents of the dangers of this 'transaction' but to no avail.

I've been scammed- I'm not happy thinking it was my own 'greed' that led me into a situation which destroyed my marriage, my peace of mind and my family's financial well being.

But let's be honest- anyone who thinks two plus two is five is showing greed.

I was scammed over the internet very recently by trying to help out someone I 'knew' through a forum (not this one). I don't think I was motivated by greed, but by gullibility.

But then I didn't think I was going to earn oodles of dosh in that case.
And this couple did.

Anyway. I'm not posting a defense of scammers, just saying a scammer's greatest ally is the scammee's greed.

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:35 pm

Maybe sometimes, but just as often not. Most victims we see are hard-up and gullible, that's all. If someone in India thinks he's won a lottery and doesn't know better, he'll apply. India and the far east are known to be targetted specifically by a lot of lottery scammers, because a) they're not as informed as we are in the west and b) they'll see it as a chance, finally, to escape the crushing poverty they're trapped in.

We've seen Indian victims borrow from the entire community to send the 'agent' a couple hundred dollars. The bastards will settle for that, if it's all they can wring out of the mark.

This 'victim greed' thing bothers me, even if it's played a part sometimes, for example when someone who already has more money than he could spend in several lifetimes thinks he's about to make more the easy way. It seems to justify the scam, even if that's not the intention. Victim lack of information and/or common sense play a bigger part, as a general rule.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 39

psychicbait wrote:

Anyway. I'm not posting a defense of scammers, just saying a scammer's greatest ally is the scammee's greed.

But, the scammees, in this case the old couple, they wanted the money to help their grandson. You know what, if they already had hundreds of thousands of dollars, why didn't they help their grandson with THAT money?

That's interesting you yourself have been scammed. When did you realize you were involved in a scam? Did you feel like you were on a "high" during the early stages of the scam? Do you think you had become "addicted" to the scam? Sorry for all the questions and of course you don't have any obligation to answer them. I am curious to learn about what the victim is thinking and how decisions are made as the scam continues.

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:41 pm

There are also the victims who have tried to buy or sell something on-line. They certainly aren't motivated by greed.

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:33 pm

I see this a controversial subject!
That's good- discussion and airing of many different angles of this complex subject is healthy, as far as I can see.

@PsycheDelia_Smith - couldn't agree with you more about the scams to the poor.
They make my blood boil. Also the puppy scams. The 'help pay for an unfortunate child's operation' scams. And many others which as a newbie I shall learn about in time.

The scam here was an investment scam, IIRC. That's something very different. The couple was scammed over three years and their sons tried to open their eyes to what was happening.
I think that's a whole different situation.
But I'll defend your right to express a differing opinion!

@Come-On
No worries. If my shame and loss serves to help others, that's good.
What did I feel in the beginning? It's hard remember with hindsight because the damage was done simply by signing a blank piece of paper and the 'real estate' agent was going to fill in the 'correct' amounts I was going to pay monthly.

Then came the monthly installements at 20 times the amount agreed upon and my own bank legally sucked me dry.
I thought I was getting a fair deal on a decent retirement home. It wasn't about oodles of money nor 'getting away with' avoiding taxes, etc.

Perhaps greed isnt the right word, yet on some level it is, as I didn't do the sensible thing, which was to pay the fees for legal counsel to go over the contract.
I was vain enough to think I couldn't be fooled and ended up signing a blank agreement authorising my bank to pay such and so amount.

For want of a ha'penny of tar?
Something along those lines, anyway.

@Mr Tambourine Man- very often not and you are right there. The scam of this couple, however, was an investment scam.

Thanks for all the comments and questions- they helped me define my own perspective of what happened to me!

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:34 pm

Come-On wrote:

I am curious to learn about what the victim is thinking and how decisions are made as the scam continues.

Straight bait a mugu, run him ragged. He's the victim then, and you can study him. Keep him one step away from his payday at all times and you can have him do as many "one last thing"s as you like.

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:41 pm

This is also a good point in time to bring up charity scams. I dare say the victims have NO greed there, as they are already thinking the money is going to help people and they're already expecting nothing in return

Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:18 pm

psychicbait wrote:

Perhaps greed isnt the right word

From the scamees side, I think greed is totally NOT the right word.
Only hope. Which is what the lazy ignorant scum prey on by feeding the scamees dreams.

Therefore pushing any kind of blame squarely back on the scum.

I do so love the way that same application of manipulation can be turned back on them by their very same BS methods, causing the magnificent sh*t storm to blow up back in their faces. Oh sweeeet irony.
Laughing

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:11 am

Sorry to hear this has happened to them But I have to agree with the above who said if they had $100sK, why did they think they needed more.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

I don't think the couple had an extra $100,000. If they had, they wouldn't have had their car repossesed and wouldn't be losing their home.

I don't think greed is a good description of most of the scam victims I've seen. Many scams don't involve greed at all: Romance scams, Charity Scams, Craigslist/Auction Scams, work at home/check mule scams, puppy scams, hitman scams, etc.
Lottery scams: Is it greedy to try to collect a prize you've been told you've won?

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:17 am

They sent over $300,000 over 4 years. The scammers kept promising huge returns. The family tried to get them to stop. They wouldn't listen. They kept seeing that huge return just around the bend.

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:56 am

curlyearl wrote:

They sent over $300,000 over 4 years. The scammers kept promising huge returns. The family tried to get them to stop. They wouldn't listen. They kept seeing that huge return just around the bend.

Yes. And THAT is greed.

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:28 am

Don't think it's fair to call that greed. Only a natural human instinct to improve ones lifestyle. These poor souls were led deep into what they believed was a bona fide investment. Much like many pension holders / regular folk who are getting shafted by the large financial systems and banks in today's economic climate. Everyone is natuarally out for themselves in one way or another. But I see greed as being determined by how far you are willing to go to get it. i.e : Kidnapping, torture, murder.

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:50 am

It's a tough call. They said they wanted to help their grandson through college. Instead they were the ones who got an education. 300 grand is a pretty expensive college.

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:11 am

What a horrible thing to have happened to this couple, regardless of greed motives or not. I couldnt watch the entire link as it was to upsetting, I dont suppose a single day will pass without these poor souls thinking about there misfortune, lets hope they can live out the remainder of there days with some happiness and without blaming each other for what has happened. As for the scammers, could there be lower people on earth than these guys, and others doing the same thing, do they realize just what misery and heartache they have caused, I dont suppose so, it really pisses me off, makes me wonder why we do this (scam bait) when I suppose I should be thinking about re doubling my efforts.

Am I alone in thinking that this is like a real kick in the balls.

One of the reasons I do what I do here	View next topic View previous topic