Well, just got scammed

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Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:32 pm

Hi everybody, my first post and it's not good

I GOT SCAMMED.

Have been a member of the forum before - a couple of years ago and was aware of scam emails etc. and played a few lads along over the years following tips on here and previous baiter's baits.

Well, I got scammed through trade site - I sometimes import and sell products from various countries (not big business) and was searching for suppliers of a new line I am interested in.
Unfortunately one of the ads was by a scammer, had web site and had done a fair bit of background work ensuring his business was listed on different trade resources, even had site for local business and commerce set up.

So all background checks kept coming up legit.

Luckily only placed an order for a few samples to check spec and service level and made bank transfer (all followed the usual practice for buying /paying/ importing goods)
Unfortunately it wasn't and I was scammed - they are still advertising so now I am working on my plans to get my moneys worth out of scre**** them around so any suggestions, baits etc that anyone wants to throw in I will be happy to use them if I can, over the next few months.

Positive thing is that it could have been more money had they the sense to ship the samples knowing there was a bigger order coming through on the back of it so they actually done me a favour.

Keep up the good work everybody with the scam baiting and I look forward to your suggestions,

If anyone wants info on where to contact him / them for time wasting please feel free to ask and I will forward details on where to locate the info or send the contact info I have.

the bhoy

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:38 pm

Sorry to hear...

Regarding this:

Quote:

Positive thing is that it could have been more money had they the sense to ship the samples knowing there was a bigger order coming through on the back of it so they actually done me a favour.

If they are scammers, it's doubtful that the samples were even there to begin with...

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:51 pm

thanks for that,

re the samples - you are correct -they wouldn't have had any to begin with - my way of thinking is that as they were targeting 'trade' customers - people who would be ordering in larger quantities - that the scammer could actually have made much larger gains by sending samples and gambling on the big order.
From my past experiences over the years I could have been spending $5k on the first order (US Dollars as most business is conducted in dollars).

They are still advertising with their line now set on martial art products.

The bhoy

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:07 pm

Hi thebhoy,

Welcome back and I'm so sorry this happened to you. Evil or Very Mad

Quote:

had web site and had done a fair bit of background work ensuring his business was listed on different trade resources, even had site for local business and commerce set up.

My thoughts are that you should post the scammer's website, details and evidence in the fake banks & sites forum here and let someone kill it. Since it seemed quite legitimate to you even after researching, it would save others from being scammed as well.

You could still stay in touch & torture him by email with different characters after the site's killed, since he wouldn't know how long ago you saw it anyway. If he puts up another fake site, he'll let your character know, we'll kill it, rinse and repeat.
Also, if you want him to get some extra attention, as you know, we're a playful bunch around here and he'd get some great care. Twisted Evil

eta: You might post it in Scamwarners as well, to alert others.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:49 am

^^ I agree, post it on scamwarners too. Looks like this lad(s) are smart and have put some effort in their scam.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:47 am

Thanks for the support everyone.

I will list the info where you have suggested - hopefully it will prevent others being caught out and also it would be good if some of the forum members started playing this lad.
In the meantime here is some of the info for those who want to see just how much work this lad /these lads have done to make it look so legit.

The 'company' name is KISSANA LEATHER CRAFT if you google this you will come up with loads of links to the 'trade' suppliers.
Their 'new' website is listed as .. www.jaimsa.com

One of their business links is.....http://www.sialkotexport.com/industry/KISSANA_LEATHER_CRAFTS_details.aspx

The link to their Kissana Leather Craft website does not work now but the contact details (email) is still available on the listings sites.

I would like to hear views from any forum member who takes a look at them - just to see what you think about how well it appears to be set up.

Best wishes,

thebhoy

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:03 am

hmm, web site created 2 years ago, updated last year, valid for 1 more year.
Phone number traces back to same location as a geographical number.
www.kissana.com - still under construction.
canonical name: www.jaimsa.com
64.71.228.251 is from United States(US) in region North America
Updated Date: 18-jun-2009
Creation Date: 18-jun-2008
Expiration Date: 18-jun-2010

canonical name: www.kissana.com
64.71.228.251 is from United States(US) in region North America
Updated Date: 23-apr-2009
Creation Date: 21-apr-2003
Expiration Date: 21-apr-2010

hmm, locations are a matching pair.

Definitely needs further investigation.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:43 pm

Hi Inspector gadget

With the info available is it possible to tie them down to a specific location?

They had claimed to be in Pakistan on most sites but one I have subsequently found had stated they were in India.

re the kissana website under construction - they had another website running alongside which is now no longer coming up - www.kissana.com - this was one from the emails I had in my dealings with them.

Bank details - Pakistan address for bank -all details available if required.

The bhoy

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:11 am

Update:

Having had no reply to last couple of emails re my sample order and knowing I was scammed I have started my fight back based on the one principle they all adhere to GREED Wink

I have now sent an email with my next order quantities as I urgently need them for the Christmas sales rush Laughing

Well that sure brought a quick response and new pro-forma invoice for $6439.00 US Dollars and also news that my samples will be ready on Tuesday for shipping by DHL on Wednesday and tracking details will be sent immediately - NOW ISN'T THAT FANTASTIC CUSTOMER SERVICE Rolling Eyes

Obviously I expect to receive the usual excuses come Wednesday and one of them may be that I have not emailed back my new order confirmation as requested - I am holding back from replying to their emails as I will use their excuse (one I had set them up to use by suggesting it as an 'out' for them in my last email) that I have been on holiday this week and have only just returned.

Downside of this is that they have all my contact details as it started off as a genuine business transaction - before I found out I was being scammed -but hey ho that's life.

Have now found their address details linked into some 'golf' products and into a load more trade link sites.

Yet another of their fake sites? www.scci.com.pk
This site has been chopped and changed in the past six weeks and is still being changed as they add more to it.

Any more thoughts from the forum?

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:12 pm

I am the last person to discourage you from getting back at these lads but i'm wondering if you bait safe? Do you use an online email account like gmail which hides your IP and do you use a made up name? If not stop all contact with the lad and start a new bait using a made up character with a gmail account. Please read the sticky's and bait safe.

Welcome to the crazy world of scam baiting

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:32 pm

Thanks Vampire,

when baiting - I use a GMAIL account and also a HUSH mail account.

This particular issue was done on my genuine account as it was a genuine business transaction to start with before I realised I was scammed.
They have all my contact details so I will need to play it as a 'genuine' customer unaware that I was being scammed.

If I get the sample goods (which I doubt) I will then discontinue contact by declaring that I have decided not to pursue the product range I was trying to import and thank them for all their help with a view that I may contact them again in 2010.
I may introduce the idea that I was scammed by another lad for all my money but that the goods were never sent and that I can't get a hold of them anymore.
Perhaps I had the order shipped from the 'maker' to a 'customer' in the same country and having paid for the order the customers cheque or payment turned out to be a fraud and the police are now involved.

All thoughts coming into play for the long game.

If I don't then I will drop contact anyway as a disappointed 'customer' and then start baiting them from one of my baiting accounts just to waste their time.

the bhoy

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:38 pm

Hi thebhoy,

May I suggest again that you post the site in the fake scammer banks and sites forum here? The ultiimate revenge would be to have it taken down (if the registrar/host is cooperative, that is). But mainly, it will save others from being victimized as well. You could still continue baiting and 'placing orders' through email on your safe address. Even if the info@etc. on the site goes dead, he'll contact you from another address in anticipation of a windfall. You would just want the website down, not the email acct.

If you decide to post it there, you'll need to provide the evidence emails (sans your RL details) before it can be added to the database for someone to research and kill. You can do it yourself Twisted Evil

if you want to. The mods/experts are happy to help & guide you through it if you need any help. Very Happy

Meanwhile, have fun with those Christmas orders. Smile

419Eater is my life Joined: 30 May 2009 Posts: 298

Sounds like a pretty sophisticated scam.

Sorry about your loss too.

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:05 am

There's certainly a lot of work gone into the coding to make this look like a genuine site. Php, shopping baskets that seem to work (though [email protected] won't get back to me too quickly). A genuine victim would definitely be fooled. If I was into sport AT ALL, this could fool me too Crying or Very sad

As for the Sialkot one, a variation (which didn't work) was listed on wikipedia: http://home.scci.com.pk/

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:05 pm

Hello everyone - just thought I would update you on state of play.

Having continued communication with a 'next order' approach for over $6,000 US dollars, given them various 'outs' for delay - holidays, difficulty producing to my spec etc - the replies were based on these 'outs'.

Several emails with 'order is just being finished' 'shipping tracking number will be emailed shortly' and so on, I continued to play the patient stupid victim thanking them for their help whilst dangling the 'money is ready to be transferred as soon as I have the initial sample order'.

Well, at last, today I have received my 'order' - now they are waiting on $6k+ being transferred to their bank for my 'big' order that they will be making to be here before the Christmas rush.

I will have to disappoint them now - may draw it out for a few weeks - before telling them I have changed my mind.

They have even set up their website again - albeit changed from the last couple.

I will now forward bank details etc for the 'specialists' to look into and decide how to attack it.

Please advise what info I need to post next.

Thanks to everyone for their support and advice - it was very helpful,

kind regards,

THEBHOY

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:25 pm

^ are you saying that you actually got some samples through?

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:38 pm

Hi Inspector Gadget,

YES

I got some samples through - took three month of dangling the carrot after they got the first $169. US dollars.
They were so keen to get the $6k that I worked on the principle that they might try to source them somewhere to send to me as they were promised the money the day after they arrived.

With their website disappearing after they had the first lot of money, then the websites with their local business community membership disappeared, now another version of their website has reappeared in the last week - just in time for me to search for it when I am supposed to be sending more money - coincidence?

Welcome views from the forum............normal thought process would be that it is legit and I can send the money for the next order - but hey, we all know how these lads work and I may be wrong here but too many loose ends.

THEBHOY

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:57 pm

Well, their Chamber of Commerce and Industry site is now back up and running - again different from before - here's the link www.scci.com.pk

All just in time for next payment - NOT.

Welcome views on this,

thebhoy

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 10

Hi thebhoy,

Fist of all, welcome to our humble community! I think, to some extent, all of us here have experienced being scammed...whether by neighbors, 'friends', co-workers, family, etc. My only advice to you, at this point, would be to try to stay objective and to know when to cut your losses. There is an emotional connection anyone of us would have in a similar situation. I just say this out of concern for you...but just know that if you were to gain the upper hand, I would be the first one to applaud you!

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:48 pm

Hi thebhoy,
The Whois for www.scci.com.pk is:

The Domain record for scci.com.pk

Quote:

Domain Name:
scci.com.pk

Registrant:
Sialkot Chamber of Commerce
M. Sadiq Goraya
Sialkot
Pakistan

Create Date:
2000-01-27

Expire Date:
2010-01-27

I might be missing something ....do you mean they've reincarnated under another company name, and are listed on the site above?

also, thanks for the update on how things are progressing. Smile

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:11 pm

I notice a couple of spelling error s on the website which you would not expect from a company engaged in dealing in martial arts products. Martial arts enthusiasts tend to be picky about thinks like that

TeakWondo

and

Sewival

Not that it proves anything, but just thought I'd mention it.

Elite Baiter Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 1407

TeakWondo

Of course, that's the new version. The old version is Anteakwondo.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:34 pm

Quote:

My only advice to you, at this point, would be to try to stay objective and to know when to cut your losses. There is an emotional connection anyone of us would have in a similar situation. I just say this out of concern for you...but just know that if you were to gain the upper hand, I would be the first one to applaud you!

Thanks for this - I have now got samples and will not be out of pocket once I have them altered and sell on.
Having been initially scammed my plan was to continue communicating with them and dangle a LARGE £$ carrot - I had sent numerous emails saying I was in various countries on business etc - I then had a 'partner' who would be dealing with transferring the payment for my large order as I was out of the country.

Many promised shipment dates, tracking numbers will be emailed soon, order nearly finished emails, and my emails giving them 'excuses' they could use later, I eventually got what I wanted having told them I would be transferring the $6.5k for my next order the day after I receive my initial order.

They are now waiting on this money - I am letting them wait before sending any more emails.

Quote:

Hi thebhoy,
The Whois for www.scci.com.pk is:

The Domain record for scci.com.pk

Quote:
Domain Name:
scci.com.pk

Registrant:
Sialkot Chamber of Commerce
M. Sadiq Goraya
Sialkot
Pakistan

Create Date:
2000-01-27

Expire Date:
2010-01-27

I might be missing something ....do you mean they've reincarnated under another company name, and are listed on the site above?

They have changed this site several times in the past three months - at various points of time it just didn't exist ( not valid) then it would be up again with a makeover and different link to it, empty pages, bad links and repeated info on different pages.

Their business 'site' was set up likewise for initial order then vanished, changed, reappeared, changed again and so on and has not been available for about five weeks only to appear again this week when they are expecting me to pay for next order.

After I had paid and heard nothing the first time - the site vanished with a 'not valid' coming up on searches -then one click on the Kissana link they had supplied at the very beginning came up with a totally different site and name -With the same owner and address - this vanished the next day.

Spelling mistakes were evident on all their sites AND the Sialkot commerce site. another thing I picked up after initial scam was that they stated on some sites - started in 1979 whilst on others it was 1973.

What I was having from them was bee keeping equipment -gloves and suits - These no longer appear on their site(s)

Bank details.......
Allied Bank Limited
Wazirabad Road Branch,
Sialkot - Pakistan.

I know the experts on here know where to find all the info - for people like myself - I am blind to sourcing the background evidence -domain registrations and so on so all the info I read on all the forum posts is very valuable to those 'novices' like myself.

Very best wishes to everyone and thanks again for the help and support you have given me.

Thebhoy