Is this how little we think of disabled

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train boi Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 697

I was at work yesterday, Going between two stations on a local stopper (Thanks to schedualing who put me on a service arriving in Liverpool and one departing from Manchester) I was messing around on my new phone I snapped these two photos.

I mean how can a luggage rack be a spot for disabled passengers?

I don't work for that TOC Wink

nor would I want to the way they treat disabled passengers

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:36 am

From what I can see it looks like somewhere to put a wheelchair. I don't really see the problem. Where else can you put one on a train? What were you expecting a 5 star gold plated carriage??

The able bodied have to put up with just the same standards... Shocked

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:49 am

Looks to me like the lower photo has a place to put a wheelchair... but not the person using it, unless they have no head...

train boi Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 697

Goldry Bluszco wrote:

From what I can see it looks like somewhere to put a wheelchair. I don't really see the problem. Where else can you put one on a train? What were you expecting a 5 star gold plated carriage??

The able bodied have to put up with just the same standards... Shocked

I work for another TOC, There are minium requirements laid out by ATOC this does not meet them. it states each train is to have room onboard the service for a wheel chair passenger, and onboard that service the luggage rack was that such space.

I don't expect gold plated carriages (3 other TOCS that operate from Manchester can operate a better rolling stock which meets all requirments)

You say able bodied people face the same least you can stand Wink

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:32 am

Perhaps if they wheeled in feet first and then lent back a bit, so their head wasn't in contact with the luggage rack.

They might just fit! They'd have to have bloody good brakes to ensure they didn't head butt it.

Jay, agree with you, it's appaulling. I was a ski buddy for a guy who represents GB in the Paralympics (hopefully in the winter olympics he'll get us a Gold! Very Happy

). It's not 'til you sit in a chair yourself or have to push someone in one that you realise how wheelchair unfriendly the UK can be.

Don't get me started on Kings Cross ticket hall (yes the new one). Whilst in France/Italy we got better service and attention than here. People were much more willing to help and more understanding.

train boi Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 697

When I am giving assistance as train manager, I have no quarms removing passengers from disabled spots (compared to the 0 on that train - mind you theres a minium of 2 required spaces the trains I work on has 4 in each carriage) if they are not disabled, It is designated priority under law, Ive never been in a chair, But I treat them as any other fare paying passenger, After all they are human aswell

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:52 pm

Speaking as a person in a wheelchair, I must say that pic looks outrageous. Evil or Very Mad

I am grateful that I live in the land of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), where if accommodations are not to be had I can complain to someone and most likely get something done. Actually, merely invoking or quoting the ADA without getting huffy seems to work miracles - it's how I got a ramp installed outside our apartment building.

Now if we could just convince the selfish honyoks who abuse the handicap parking spaces to leave them for people who really need them, we'd be doing something. When my roommate arrived to pick me up from work the other day, both handicap slots were occupied by cars with neither placards nor special license plates. Not cool.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:08 pm

The ADA is the best piece of legislation to come out of Washington D.C. ever. I agree Titania! I have never seen the term "honyoks" before, origin please! Did you inform the store manager of the problem with the illegally parked vehicles? I don't know about your municipality but mine has recently done an enforcement drive on abusers. A very ruthless drive. Hopefully it will teach the "honyoks"!

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:29 pm

Honyoks is a term my mother used to use. She would say something like "Some honyok opened his door too hard and put a little dent in our door." We'd say, "What's a honyok?" And she'd reply, "The kind of person who opens the car door too hard and puts a little dent in somebody else's door."

That's all I can tell you about them. Wink

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:49 pm

@Titania- put the number of the front desk of the police dept on your speed dial. When you see one, give them a call, but do it discretely. Yesterday I arrived at a park where exactly 50% of the spots were temporary marked off with handicapped placards as there was a free concert that night. I had to wait about a minute for a spot to open up. When I returned 4 hours later, the concert was two hours away and two ladies were citing the car parked in front of me. I had a concerned look as last time that happened, I got a ticket for not having a front license plate. Crying or Very sad

I knew that the parking meters do not charge on weekdays, only weekends but thought I may have missed a temporary restriction. They told me I was OK. I poke my head around to see the handicapped restriction and agree with the ladies that its terrible. A man next to that car comes running up and starts to give the ladies a hard time. One lady says he's OK as long as he moves the car. He continues to abuse them and I tell him "Sir, you are out of line!". He said muttered else and I told him I would love to dialog with him as his car got written up. I should have called him a honyok.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:56 pm

Preliminary research reveals the term to be related to honyak possibly of Baltic origin. A derogatory term for gypsies? I shall endeavor to crack this one!

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

http://www.rsdb.org/search?q=hunyak

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:01 pm

I'm glad I didn't.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 35

Speaking as a Brit wheelchair user - I'm struck by some of the very flippant responses on this thread...it shows how little some people regard this problem that the DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) which requires access to all public buildings and transport is quite often openly flaunted either through ignorance or just plain idiocy.

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:45 am

Sorry if this offends anyone. But every bus you get on in London has a similar space for wheelchairs. Or for mothers with buggies.

Realistically how far do you expect any even vaguely commercial operation to go? Its a designated space. What else needed? Belts - what pattern and mounting points? Wheel chocks? Which position? Or a porter to tend to every need perhaps?

I travel twice a day on rush hour trains and buses with a small child. Its difficult. Inconvenient. Designated seats for people with handicaps or small children are only rarely given up by those who don't have them. Can't remember last time it happened actually.

I deal with it and don't waste my time b1tching and moaning about a relatively minor inconvenience. Life has harder challenges than that surely.

At the end of the day. parents with small children and wheelchair users - as well as other disabled - are a very small proportion of the public transport users. I'd love to have a nice soft seat with a triple point belt for my daughter twice a day. But I'm not a complete idiot so I know that's never going to happen.

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:39 am

^^^ Having safe and accessible accommodations for those with disabilities is the LAW. Having a nice place to sit with your child is a nicety/convenience. There is a huge difference. And I think it is more than just 'a relatively minor inconvenience'. Confused

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:01 pm

Accommodations do not exist to make independent travel CONVENIENT for people with disabilities. They exist to make it POSSIBLE.

Elite Baiter Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 1407

I can agree with the folks that support the ADA (DDA in UK) and in some instances agree with those that don't.

For any new builiding construction/public transportation construction it should absolutely be given 100% consideration and implementation. I don't have any patience for people that park in handicap spots if they are not entitled to use them either.

However, for older buildings/historic sites I think that unfortunatly it isn't either cost effective/practical to make them 100% handicap accesable. And although I empathise with those that are disabled, I don't think it fair to force them (buisiness owners) to spend large amounts of money to serve a rather limited audience. However, if they choose not to update their older facilites they of course will lose out on potential revenue.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 35

Rorschach wrote:

Sorry if this offends anyone. But every bus you get on in London has a similar space for wheelchairs. Or for mothers with buggies.

Realistically how far do you expect any even vaguely commercial operation to go? Its a designated space. What else needed? Belts - what pattern and mounting points? Wheel chocks? Which position? Or a porter to tend to every need perhaps?

I travel twice a day on rush hour trains and buses with a small child. Its difficult. Inconvenient. Designated seats for people with handicaps or small children are only rarely given up by those who don't have them. Can't remember last time it happened actually.

I deal with it and don't waste my time b1tching and moaning about a relatively minor inconvenience. Life has harder challenges than that surely.

At the end of the day. parents with small children and wheelchair users - as well as other disabled - are a very small proportion of the public transport users. I'd love to have a nice soft seat with a triple point belt for my daughter twice a day. But I'm not a complete idiot so I know that's never going to happen.

That's not offensive - I didn't think I was bitching - just making a point having worked in disability groups and charities etc. In practice I'm very laid back about it unless someone is objectionable but on principle I would either contact the company/transport etc to suggest improvements that could be made IF NECESSARY

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