Help my hubby understand. *edit*

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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:41 pm

He thinks this whole thing is wrong, and not matter what I say, he still thinks it, so I'm thinking maybe if he has someone tell him, who's more experienced with it explain it to him, then maybe he'll understand it better.

please & thanks!!

EDIT:

He says "they send them on trips(safaris), that's wrong. the people are too trusting, they should harden their hearts."

yea. *sighs* he thinks no one should be trusting, but what he doesn't get is if I wouldn't have been trusting of him, then we probably wouldn't be where we are today.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:58 pm

Of course scamming is wrong that is why we are here to take up the scammers valuable time and resources, hopefully to eventually deter them from continuing a life of crime which is a fenoly even in their own countries eyes. I suppose some have the view that fraud is alright, but we have special places for them in our hearts. Wink

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:02 pm

We deal with thieves here. All the people we write to are actively engaged in theft or are attempting to steal. Many of us will not write to anyone who did not target us specifically. While they are engaged in trying to scam us, they are busy NOT scamming a real victim. We protect people who do not know we exist, and this is a good community of great people. On top of that, it is fun. Whats not to like?

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:15 pm

Hi omgwtf09!

Maybe it would help if you had your hubby read some of the stories posted by victims of these crimes? Certainly our sister site, ScamWarners, would be an excellent place to start.

Why does he think it is wrong? What doesn't he like about baiting? There are so many different things we do here on Eater; shut down fake sites, report bank accounts used for fraud, give potential victim information to people that can do something about it (mods), take fake checks off the streets, etc. Very Happy

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:16 pm

"Wrong" is such a broad term. What part of what we do is bothersome?

Through baiting we entertain ourselves and irritate criminals, but we also raise public awareness, support victims, shut down fake sites used in scams, occasionally help coordinate arrests, etc. Seems like good stuff to me. Very Happy

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:03 pm

I think he needs to narrow down and justify what specifically he finds a problem. He may fish and you may be a vegetarian, but would he accept you telling him not to do it ? Is there a specific issue he has a problem with or is it a case of him just not getting it ?

I'm not trying to start a relationshi argument, and we don't kidnap members and force them to participate. The security issues are minimal if you follow the simple rules, which will be good to learn and follow for internet usage outside this forum. Few people join this forum with a full knowledge of all the types and forms of internet scam, so it is a valuable and learning process, and through our work we both amuse ourselves and protect the public from criminals.

I'll mention one scammer who used the picture of an Indian baby that was skin and bones and he pretended to be the mother and was begging money for medecine. I tracked down the place he had taken the photo from and the baby had died five years previously. The baby had lived a life of misery and was being abused even after death - and he tried the same scam with the same photo several times - but we dogpiled him with baiters and ruined his efforts.

Do we need justification ? Some things are just the right thing to do. It's an extreme example and unfortunately there are many of them - the NOMA charity being another, which was being abused by a scammer too.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:45 pm

If he's concerned about the morality of what we do, he can be assured that anything illegal is totally against the rules here.

Any qualms about what we do are put to rest by reading some of the stories. I've been on scamwarners.com and romancescam.com, and what we do here is nothing compared to what I'd really like to do to the pieces of s**t that scam others. Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:51 pm

I echo everyone's commentary. My wife used to be freaked out, but I had her read some stories about actual victims and she understands now. I guess seeing what we do in context may help your spouse out. Good Luck

Master Baiter Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 192

Mine doesn't like it either. His reasoning is along the lines of "two wrongs don't make a right"
He says "Just tell them what they are doing is wrong" "Say a prayer for them." bla bla bla.......

The thing is, what we do is not wrong. These guys aren't innocent people who are just trying to feed their families like some would have you believe. They aren't people who don't know any better. They are scum. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they don't care. They will steal from you, your mother, your grandmother and your children if they get the chance. You know this, but I guess your husband doesn't get it...neither does mine. Tell your husband to send an email to one of these guys himself. Tell him to pretend to be an 11 year old child with a little cash in her piggy bank. He'll see how low they can go.

Like the others said, we do entertain ourselves at their expense. I won't deny this. But, they have it coming. We are Karma's soldiers. Twisted Evil

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:08 pm

I used to throw out the "I need my money for chemotherapy" angle. Not ince did oe of them say "Keep that money. You need it" they ALL said, "when they payoff comes, you will have enough to cure your cancer". Nothing we do here is too bad for these people.

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 619

I could see some people having a problem with baiting due to strict religious beliefs as in "thou shalt not lie". Is this the type of thing your husband brings up?

Lying to lads is of course most of what we do around here, so strictly speaking, baiters violate that rule. In the big picture though, the baiter's lies are fighting against a group of criminals, making their kind of evil less wide-reaching. I don't see baiting as wrong for that reason, but everybody needs to come to their own conclusion.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:11 pm

@ Irwin Fletcher - this is truly magnanimous!

Quote:

We are Karma's soldiers.

That belongs in a sig line!

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:31 pm

As other have said,it would help to know what he feels is wrong about what we do.If he wants to know about the character of those we deal with,2 recent examples come to mind.I told one lad that I was baiting that the money he was promising me was a godsend,as I was having great difficulty taking care of my elderly mother.He inquired as to how she was doing,and assured me that I would soon be able to take care of her properly.
I also recently received a scam attempt via a relay service for the deaf.As it turns out,this has been a problem for several years,and some places refuse to deal with a deaf relay service because of the abuse by scammers.Think about it-people with a genuine need may be denied the use of a valuable service because of some scammer.
I could go on,but it is rather pointless.We are not dealing with some poor individual in a mud hut trying to eke out a living.These are people with computer skills and internet access.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:53 pm

@limburger, I don't lie when I bait a love scammer - I write romantic fiction. Mr. Green

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:26 am

Titania says

Quote:

I don't lie when I bait a love scammer - I write romantic fiction.

Perhaps the 'significant others' fear that fiction may turn to fact?

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:44 am

Point him at this topic.
http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=169070
Scammers are evil people who know they ruin lives and push people to commit suicide, and just don't care.

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:34 pm

Tell your husband to let us know exactly what it is that he disagrees with and I'll address that/those issues directly (as I'm sure some other members will too).

Everyone has covered just about everything with the exception of murder and madness. I would like to add, though, my very blunt view on scambaiting:

These "men" are criminals who are responsible for more pain and destruction than most people in our county jails (and even some in our prisons). Despite this, they are safe from the law. Completely insulated, in fact. Bulletproof. They will never feel the consequences of their actions in any way. I, as well as many other baiters, intend to unbalance the scales a bit. The way I see it, "two wrongs don't make a right" is the very antithesis of justice.

Many baiters are uncomfortable with this label, but simply put:

Quote:

Main Entry: vig·i·lan·te
Pronunciation: \ˌvi-jə-ˈlan-tē\
Function: noun
Etymology: Spanish, watchman, guard, from vigilante vigilant, from Latin vigilant-, vigilans
Date: 1856

: a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate) ; broadly : a self-appointed doer of justice

Emphasis added.

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 1440

Your husband needs to see the pictures of burned children and terminally ill people the scammers use in their scams. They would literally use said burned child as a stepping stone if someone were waving a dollar at them.

Get a copy of the short film "419: The Nigerian Scam" and show him these people aren't just harmless petty crooks struggling to buy bread. They're murderers as well.

If they could all be baited by the people here into drinking poison, I would applaud. They are ruthless, merciless and dangerous criminals and as such, I fail to understand anyone having sympathy for them.

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:17 pm

I forgot about the abuse of the deaf relay system that doc holliday mentioned. In bygone days people have romanticised certain criminals like highwaymen, and gunslingers from the Wild West, but no one has ever shown them trying to dupe and steal from the elderly, infirm or sick who are favoured targets of 419 scammers. They are little more than hyenas or vultures, except they don't have the excuse of being dumb animals.

Our protection isn't just for WASP's either. Our work protects people of all faiths and nationalities and colours, as those less sophisticated may provide less cash, but Lads don't care how little they steal, though they'll always ramp up the demands after the first payment.

A student from China studying close to my home city committed suicide over a lottery scam last year, and that's not a unique situation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7380093.stm

What do you say to the parents who probably scrimped and saved every cent to send their only child to a foreign country ?

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:50 pm

@omgwtf09

I say take hubby through all the links all the other members have posted. Then, I hope that will change his mind.

Just recently, my mother in law recieved a "check" from a Key Bank account. I caught another victim as she was ready to write a deposit slip for it and saved another potential check mule. She couldn't believe that someone would scam somebody from a respectable "LOTTERY." I walked her through the letter, showing her the various hallmarks of a scam: Addressed to "Dear Sir/Madam, questionable punctuation; a postmark from Ontario when the Lottery was supposed to be from Quebec, etc." And I asked her the biggest question: If it was a Canadian lottery, how could an American be a winner when citizenship is of Canada is necessary to win? And if it was from a lottery, why wasn't there a "Canadian Lottery" brand anywhere on the check? She got the picture.

I am very thankful that I got to her in time. Share that story with you hubby, too. Scammers will stop at nothing to make money (ie chop your dollar). There is evil in this world. We face it everyday and try to do our parts to stop it.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

It's been a while since we've had a "how low will they go?" thread but in the past we have had several. I suggest having your husband read those. Many people think they are just petty thieves. They aren't.

Here is one: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140867&highlight=low on which I posted links to two others:

Ima Baeder wrote:

Over time there have been several "how low will they go?" threads.

One of my own bait stories was a lotto lad who urged me to steal my ailing mother's medication money for the next month (she would die without her medication), assuring me that I'd get my lottery winnings in time to pay for her medication.

Another member had a lad urging her to prostitute her young daughter for the money to pay off his hitman scam.

If members here ever have pangs of guilt or feel sorry for the lads, just run a bait with these angles to test a lad's moral compass. Unfortunately, they never fail to crystalize the concept that there's nothing they won't stoop to.

Edit: here are a couple of examples: (Don't necro)

"Never feel sorry for lads" http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118800&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

"Scum of the earth" http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118575&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=tony+hitman

I also recommend having him read at Scamwarners and/or read the victim's stories here: http://www.scam-info-links.info/scam_victim_news.html

Master Baiter Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 192

Quote:

He says "they send them on trips(safaris), that's wrong. the people are too trusting, they should harden their hearts."

They are not trusting at all. They are naturally suspicious of us. Being liars and thieves themselves, they trust noone, not even their family. The baiters that send them on "trips" work hard to establish themselves as believable. The scammers go on these safaris for one reason. Money. The money they are going to steal, lie, cheat and in some cases kill for.

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:45 pm

Baiters don't "send them on trips" - the scammers travel of their own free will. Actually, getting their behinds on a bus and riding 200 miles or more is more work than they have probably done in years. It's good for them! Wink

Besides, many times the scammers after money the baiter says is meant for charitable purposes. Do you suppose the scammer intends to use the money as proposed? Oh, maybe he'd have given an offering to his church because the pastor and congregation prayed with him for a rich maga, but the bulk of the money would have gone for fancy cars, loose women, and drugs.

And the time spent in travelling is time NOT spent scamming other victims - victims who may send real money. Twisted Evil

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:27 pm

Another how low will they go story - I've been in a coma and the first thing the scammer asked when I got back in touch after regaining conciousness was "When will you make the payment".

I have also seen victims from poor families in places like the Philipines being taken advantage of when all they want is a legitimate job.

Scammers are just scum and nothing we do is too bad for them.

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:53 am

Tell him that you are playing a "victim" in a role-playing game.

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