My friend is beeing scammed, please advise

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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:39 am

Wow.

Nice work, all.

This sure is a great bunch of people.

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:08 am

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:44 am

I would advise that you not bait her. You did meet “her” on a RL email account. Also, and I hope this comes out sounding respectful, now that you’ve decided that this “nice girl” is more likely a criminal, if you ever find yourself in a similar situation I hope you’ll have a different view about meeting in person. </paranoia> Smile

Hey I just noticed who posted a few before me. Laughing

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:03 am

Does she have any of your real details? Has the dating site? If so, best not bait this one too harshly. Maybe report her profile on the site, starve her of oxygen at least.

If you've been proper safe so far (and read all the stickies), you could string it out a bit. As she has no intention of travelling she may have 'friends' in Europe hoping to do nasty things to you, so from now on don't travel to see her. You could instead say you waiter in xxx city airport for ages, you have to work on the day she's arriving, etc.,

At least we know the truth now, anyway Wink

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:55 am

Hi Jazz

I am so glad you now know the truth and that you will not be losing any money, as I suggested very early, this story is unlike any other I have seen but it goes to show that no matter how much we think we know about scams and those who are doing the scamming, there is always more to learn.

To those who may have been a little anxious in pulling out the sticks and more so to those who refused to listen to reason and put your sticks away when asked to, learn from this Wink

Not quite a Newb Joined: 16 Feb 2009 Posts: 78

First of all, if I offended anyone by my posts I apologize; I was wrong.

Second, I would not continue baiting at this point, simply because you do not know what RL information has been gleaned about you. If it is a money laundering scheme you are dealing with people who would not be amused by the whole baiting scenario.

I'd ask why are the bring me into this deal - trusting someone they don't know to do a deal and then be quiet about it. What do they get out of it and how will they assure I do not cause problems for them? Why should they pay me?

The answers I come up with lead me to believe the best course is to drop all interaction with them. You've had an interesting experience.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

She's supposedly travelling to Stockholm as we speak. I'm doing one more tracking attempt. To see where she's at when she checks her mail again.

Then I am going to contact authorities, to see if they are interested in pursuing this case. If the girl is actually in Stockholm, and is willing to meet me, again with all the cash, they might be interested in chatting with her.

If not, I'm calling her bluff, if I get in touch with her online. And my guess is that will be the last I'll hear from her.

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:42 pm

@Murry Guru: You reportedly spent a great amount of time and effort before, investigating exhaustively and extensively in order to prove without doubt that this was not a trolling attempt.

But now you strangely seem very eager to rapidly put a lid on the whole can and reach a final and undisputable conclusion of what happened here, based only on very slight information which can hardly be considered definite proof of anything either.

With all due respect I don’t think anybody here yet knows what is really going on. And in the best case scenario everybody was wrong. Because if nobody here was trolling, or bullshitting, neither is the “girl” a scammer, as you and others were inclined to suggest. If there is a drug dealing group involved here, they’re not scammers, because their objective would never be to take any money from mr Jazz. However, they could very well be looking for “mules”. But then again I have never seen these “drug chaps” recruiting mules over the internet. They need to have you by your short hairs and have full access to you, your home, your work and your family, in order to guarantee your performance, and that is hardly the case with mr Jazz, of whom they don’t know any real details. And they will never give any money to a guy that can disappear without leaving any trace.

So, I think there are many things still to be learned here before anyone can conclude what is really happening “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Therefore I suggest everyone keeps doing his/her homework until we reach the real bottom of this. The putting aside of sticks and/or the presentation of apologies can wait a while longer, in my opinion.

But, if at the end of the day, apologies have to be offered, I will the first one to comply, extensively and publicly.

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:54 pm

@Joaquin, I think a Shakespeare quote is appropriate here:

Quote:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy

In other words, whatever was going on will not continue with mr.jazz as a victim. And that's all we really care about here at Eater.

It would satisfy my insatiable curiosity to know what the deal was, but then I am an elephant's child. Wink

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:13 pm

Titania wrote:

In other words, whatever was going on will not continue with mr.jazz as a victim. And that's all we really care about here at Eater.

Well, let me, again, respectfully disagree. I believe that Eater is formed by many members, and many Mods, so there is hardly one common line of thought. So, what Eater cares about depends entirely on what side of the fence you are looking at the bulls from. (That was not said by Shakespeare, but rather by a now very dead bullfighter ...)

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:18 pm

Juaquin,

I will echo Titania and also point out that we do not focus on this type of crime at 419Eater. We focus on 419 scams, which this clearly is NOT. Hence, I see no reason for anyone at Eater to put another moment into doing any more homework to conclude "beyond a reasonable doubt" what is/was really going on.

The bottom line is, there was a potential victim of something that may have been a scam or, at least, some type of criminal activity. We, knowing something about scams, offered to help, and invested some time and energy. Turns out it was fishy...and the victim has now stated unequivocally that he has obtained enough information to not become a victim from this person. What he does from this point forward is his own business. And what the situation actually was with the "woman" is of no concern to most of us. We have actual 419 scammers to deal with...and I for one have no desire to delve into possible drug-related crime. Not my area of expertise.

I do believe the majority of us are quite happy with this outcome, and are comfortable moving onward with our usual activities. If someone wants to get personally involved in this situation, I would suggest they do so off the board. Exchange emails with the vic in PM's if you wish. Or go find a drug-crime message forum. But the fact is, we no longer have a victim in jeopardy, and we do not have a 419 scammer. So what is left to be done on Eater?

JMHO. I am, of course, not speaking in any official capacity.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

Well, I'll keep on telling the story as it follows, until I am told to shut up.

I did one more tracing attempt today, hoping she would not open it straight away. I spoke with her at 16.15 today, asking if she wasn't going to travel already. She had told me she was leaving this afternoon (thinking I didn't know she was still in Brazil). Anyway, I sent her another email at 19.10, which she (or someone else) opened straight away. It was, however traced more or less exactly to the nearest international airport from where the last IP adress was located. Which for me at least, was quite interesting. It also seems she was using her laptop, and is bringing that with her. Which I also find interesting, if she is to be apprehended by authorities. I'm sure there should be SOME interesting information on that computer.

Anyway, I'll do at least one more attempt. Because I feel the need to locate her in Stockholm. Hopefully she (or one of her friends) won't have access to the mailbox until she has arrived. It's limited how many pointless mails I can send her without her understanding that I am tracing her from town to town. It seems, however, that she wasn't aware of the posibility for me to trace her location that way. It's obvious that she didn't want to be traced with an IP adress revealed by an email header, and therefore she never sent me an email. Logically, since she actually lied about her whereabouts.

Like I said, I will call the authorities that deal with money laundering cases in the morning. Hopefully, they will take this as seriously as I am. It would just be a pleasure to see this girl getting behind bars. I feel like I owe it to the other suckers that are in risk of being fooled by her. Not everybody has a friend who's into scams and therefore more of a skeptical. I do realize this isn't a scam, but if it weren't for this forum, I would probably unknowingly be preparing to get deeply involved in illegal activities as we speak.

I should think that there still are some of you who would like to hear how this ends, and I actually also think there's still more to learn. For instance, about her (or their) intentions.

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:17 pm

Who said I am not investigating further?

The two previous posts have enough of my own thoughts to save me the trouble.

I may be wrong but it almost looks like now that Jazz has no more reason to be here you are looking for something else to be skeptical about.

I am fine with that but, I wont be spending any more time explaining my actions here except to say, If I was a victim wanting help from this forum and read some of the comments in this thread, I would be off looking for somebody else to help me,

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 577

^^^
Having a little edge is not a bad thing

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:41 pm

@Titania and @Cachuma: You have confirmed my point. With no more than slight indications, you have concluded that this is not the type of activities that your hobby is all about and so you have no interest whatsoever in going any further to find the truth.

And what I am saying is that I haven't the foggiest idea what this is all about, but it sure as hell is much deeper than what we have seen so far. And it should be in everybody's interest to get to the bottom, in order to know any new ways in which a victim can get in trouble, which could be far more serious than being scammed out of money.

But most of your comments sound like: "Don't confuse me with facts, 'cause I've already made up my mind"

And then

Murry Guru wrote:

... If I was a victim wanting help from this forum and read some of the comments in this thread, I would be off looking for somebody else to help me.

I agree. This could very possibly be what a victim could think ... But then again the same victim could read other posts and then become convinced that some people at the Eater are all for exhaustive investigation and undeniable proofs ... As long as these proofs support their opinion. But if the facts and proofs point in another direction, then these same people are in a rush to say "case closed".

Net, net, I am interested in finding out where this will keep taking us. And I now agree with mr Jazz that there is still very much more to learn here.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:09 am

Joaquin wrote:

This could very possibly be what a victim could think ... But then again the same victim could read other posts and then become convinced that some people at the Eater are all for exhaustive investigation and undeniable proofs ...

I agree. Thus the efforts to keep this thread civil. If this were only about helping out mrJazz, we could have much more easily sidestepped the friction by handling this with PMs. I'm glad that wasn't necessary because that's not the best use of the forum. For every member who posted here, many others, and lots of guests have read it. It will most likely be read again at some point in the future when another would-be victim starts searching for key words that might hit here. Even if mrJazz were a troll, and I'm not saying he is, there is good advice in this thread that may help others who never join and never post. That happens all the time with ScamWarners and other threads here. We rarely get the whole story, and we never get to find out how many people we have helped.

To Philo Kvetch's comment, I agree with that too, depending on the context. A thread like this is different than a typical baiting thread. mrJazz is an invited guest, and unless he stains the new couch, he deserves to be addressed with the same propriety he has shown us. That doesn't mean we can't disagree or express doubt. It only means that it is better to communicate politely. Thanks to those who have done that well.

@mrJazz, please feel free to post here and update us as you see fit.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

Thank you for that, I certainly will.

I've sent another mail now. This time it wasn't opened straight away, so it would seem that only one person is using the computer and the mail adress (whoever it is). I'm really excited to see where it gets located this time, and if it shows us that the same computer is being used, once again. I believe that could be of some importance.

I have some people investigating, trying to find some more information about this girl and her family. I even have contacts in Brazil now. Hopefully we'll get more proofs. I do however, believe that we already have a good foundation to suspect this having to do with money laundering. It'll be interesting to see what the authorities tell me when I speak with them.

Oh, by the way, I should clarify. I WILL contact the authorities, and I DO realize it could be dangerous. However, I can't be so selfish to let this one of the hook, knowing that she or they could harm others. If there is a chance of me contributing to this "gang" or whatever it is getting caugt, I feel like I have to do it. I wouldn't have the conscience to do anything else.

Hopefully, I'll have more to tell tomorrow.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:58 am

Joaquin wrote:

@Titania and @Cachuma: You have confirmed my point. With no more than slight indications, you have concluded that this is not the type of activities that your hobby is all about and so you have no interest whatsoever in going any further to find the truth.

Joaquin, since you specifically mentioned me, I will respond. I respectfully disagree with you. I most certainly AM interested. I was simply pointing out that although there's obviously something criminal going on, it's pretty apparent to me that this is not a 419 crime...so for those of us with limited time to spend on this site, I should think it would be understandable that we are moving on.

Just to make sure there are no misconceptions: I am just as curious as the next person in this thread as to what the real story is. But I am quite convinced now that we are not dealing with a 419 scam. And the simple fact is that I have no expertise in any other type of crime.

Given that I actually have another life outside of Eater, I have limited time to ply my "hobby". I feel that it is a better use of this limited time to focus on the areas in which I actually have some knowledge, and can make a difference - specifically, 419 scams.

But I wish to state that I am thrilled we were able to help Mr. Jazz avoid becoming a victim, and I welcome his ongoing posts. I will be eagerly following his updates. If he ever actually finds out what the truth is, I'll be happy to have my curiosity satiated.

In the meantime, I will be devoting MY limited time on Eater to fighting 419 crime. I do not in any way wish to discourage anyone else who might be interested in this to pursue it further. But the bare fact is that this is 419Eater, not DrugCrimeEater.

Just wanted to make that distinction. Carry on.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:21 am

@Cachuma: Thanks for your reply. As someone once said, "I may totally disagree with your opinion, but I will fully defend your right to express it". And as long as we all express our opinions in a civilized and respectful manner, I am sure we will all learn something. And have some fun while we are at it.

The truth of the matter here is that I am as lost as a seagull in Bolivia (the only South American country with no seashores, and that has now coincidentally come up in this story). I don't know what this case is all about. And therefore I do not completely believe anything, but I have not yet discarded any theory either. I cannot yet fully assure that no trolling or 419 scam is involved here, even though I am now more inclined to think that these are not the cases.

But then just because some reported tracking info indicates Brazil and Quechua, I cannot conclude that these are drug dealers either. Based on the little info I have been provided with, they could very well be Brazilian carnival folks looking to fund their Samba dance school.

So let's keep the flag raised and see who salutes it next.

Meanwhile, my regards to everybody tuned in on this frequency.

Master Baiter Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 179

I wouldn't even consider baiting this person if you suspect a drug connection.

Let me put it in the form of an analogy:
419 gangs are to drug cartels as goldfish are to great white sharks.

419 scammers occasionally entice victims to Africa and shake them down. Occasionally they are held for ransom. On very rare occasion is there lasting bodily harm (such as death). It's a good thing that the same Greek guy who was murdered in Durban in... 2001?... by 419 scammers is mentioned pretty regularly as the "latest" victim. If you insult a lad or cause his 'business' damage, the most you have to fear is learning new and interesting facts about your mother's sexual escapades with goats.

Drug cartels, on the other hand, are gratuitously violent. They don't tolerate screwing with their 'business', including their money laundering. They have lots of contacts and sources. My grandfather was poisoned and killed while acting as an FBI informant against a drug money laundering group. It's serious.

Never forget that, the standard line about 419 ruining lives and the few examples of physical harm notwithstanding, we deal with the least dangerous criminals short of insider traders. Just because we can screw with 419 scammers at will with no fear for consequences, doesn't mean that the same goes for other classes of criminal.

edit: by "least dangerous" I mean least physically dangerous.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:40 am

Quote:

It was, however traced more or less exactly to the nearest international airport from where the last IP adress was located. Which for me at least, was quite interesting. It also seems she was using her laptop

For the simple-minded people here - if there are any other than myself - can you say how you arrived at this conclusion? And please forgive the more sceptical people here; ontogeny recapitulates cynicism.
(That's for Eliza_Doolittle)

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

I'm just saying what seems obvious to me. The IP adresses given by readnotify indicated two different places in Brazil, the second one being close to an international airport. I do realize it's not gps tracking, but it seemed to me that it couldn't be a coincidence. I'm guessing that she's using a laptop, because it seems probable that it's the same computer. It has the same language, operative system, browser etc. And it's now been located to two different locations.

These are not proofs, but indicators that she's making the travel. By the way, she still haven't opened the last mail. And if she did in fact travel to Stockholm, I guess she should be there by now.

Edit: She did in fact open the email. It was traced once again to the last location, in Brazil. I guess I have to wait some more before sending another email.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:34 pm

Felix the Cat wrote:

I wouldn't even consider baiting this person if you suspect a drug connection.

I couldn't agree more. Baiting them should be out of the question. And even though it would be fun, I wouldn't recommend trying to get photos of the drug dealer with a fish on his head, sending him/her on safaris, or have their bank accounts closed. 'Cause anybody who does this, or rather his/her beneficiaries, will very soon be making HUGE claims to the baiter's Medical or Life Insurance, to say the least.

Of course no one wants to fool around with these big guys. But we should be aware of their modus operandis in order to identify a drug related internet connection and act accordingly (based on whatever everyone decides "accordingly" may be).

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:39 pm

I don't believe we have definitively come to the conclusion that this is a drug dealer yet though. To me, that would make less sense than if this actually turned out to be a 419'er after all.

Spending what would likely be thousands of $$$'s on last-minute flights to other countries to bring in a meager 30k doesn't seem like something a drug cartel would bother with.
And if they did, why Sweden?
Why not some other country that consumes copious amounts of narcotics, is easy to launder money in, is easy to travel to and from, and has a government that will turn a blind-eye?

There may be a lot of money to be had in drug trafficking, but they are no different than your average 419'er in the sense that they will always take the easiest and most cost-efficient route.

There is no reason they would go through more trouble for less return.

I am still holding to it that this is a 419 scam of some sort. With the only difference being that the scammer is clearly a complete moron/amateur.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

We do not know anything for sure yet. I BELIEVE this to be a case of money laundering, and I relate it to drugs because of the Quechua detail. She has been lying about some things. We know for sure that she has no connections to Portugal like she said. She is most likely not a student. And I am GUESSING that the details about her rich familiy is also a lie.

We are researching all we can, several of us, and hopefully in the end we will reach the bottom of this.

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