My friend is beeing scammed, please advise

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Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:02 am

How is she going to be traveling with that amount of cash? You are only allowed 4,000 USD in cash leaving Brazil. Everything points to this being a scam and I'm really confused as to why you would believe this.

THIS IS A SCAM!!

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:12 am

Scorchisio,

May I welcome you 30,000. times Smile

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:28 am

mrJazz wrote:

(Imagine it all being true, her coming her with. 30.000, and then I would just stand her up.)

Okay, imagine it IS true. My question to you is, why would you accept $30,000 from someone you've never met? That just seems unethical. Even if she IS super wealthy and this is a drop in the bucket to her, it's still just plain wrong. What person with all her mental faculties would DO that?

You don't know her, she doesn't know you. You've never met. You are strangers. Now, once you MEET, if you fall in love or whatever, if she still wants to bestow such a generous gift on you, fine...go for it. But I personally wouldn't feel right about accepting that kind of gift from a stranger. And the bottom line is, she's a stranger.

So the ethical thing to do would be to tell her to hold onto her money for now, and come meet you so you can get to know each other. And if she wants to financially gift you later, there are far less risky and bizarre ways to do it.

One way or another, one of you is acting unethically. Either you are, by being willing to accept such a huge sum of money from a stranger (who is either unbalanced, naive or foolish), or she is, by trying to pull some kind of complicated scam (the details of which are unclear at this time).

That's my take on it.

Based on what Lotta just pointed out, my vote is on scam.

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 4:54 am

Ok, call Lotta a cynic but she may be right.

IF this is all true and not a troll-trip, then you're probably as curious as everyone else as to how it will play out. However you say

Quote:

And I'm not meeting her on the airport either

which is a bit odd. If you don't see her coming through the arrivals door, how do you know the person you are to meet on the street hasn't spent the last few days sitting around the city you are to meet in thinking you are an idiot?

And why meet in a nearby city? After coming all that way is it too much to go to your city? Or do you think it makes you more anonymous than meeting in your own? Strange story; I vote troll but will tune in on Monday for the next instalment.

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:19 am

GordonBennett wrote:

I vote troll but will tune in on Monday for the next instalment.

Make that 2 votes.

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:40 am

Let's assume for the moment that this isn't a trolling attempt, and the situation is real. You've indicated that you've taken precautions (meeting in an open area, bringing friends, not giving out your home address). Unfortunately, there's still a few problems that could arise from each of these if it is a scam.

1. Meeting in an open area: If this does end up being a scam, I highly doubt that this would be the first time this person has done it. People committing crimes of this nature can be very good at finding ways to lure people away from their predefined route. It could be "before I give you the money, I'd so love to see [random landmark]" and then lead you in a circuitous route to where they want you.

They could also insist that your preplanned money exchanger has wronged them in the past, or they just don't want to use it. At this point, it's easy to feel obligated to help, and they may propose another "money exchanger" that, again, isn't in an area familiar to you.

2. Bringing a friend: The assumption in this case is that, if it's a scam, she's coming alone. Plenty of people have been killed during scams due to hidden gang members showing up when you are distracted. One extra friend isn't going to help you in this case. Remember: if it's a scam, the woman is a criminal. Criminals don't act rational or reasonable, and they don't tell you that they're going to scam you or get you in a situation that you can't escape from. If they did, they wouldn't be criminals, they'd just be stupid.

3. Not giving out your home address: Again, this assumes that if you say "no," she'll leave it at that, and/or there aren't other people involved. Imagine this: you get uncomfortable and say "no," and she accepts this or storms off angrily. Eventually, you'll have to go home or someplace else. What's to stop someone, angry about losing their chance at a successful scam, to surreptitiously follow you around and rob or kill you somewhere else? Again, criminals don't broadcast their intent.

Scammers make their illicit living on getting money from, or revenge on, unwitting people. If they've invested time and money in getting this far, they're not going to write it off as a tax deduction and move on. Imagine you worked all month for an employer, and at the end of the month, they told you "sorry, we decided not to pay you." Would you be happy? That's what'll be in their mind, only on a much larger and much more devious scale.

So, in summary, if this is a serious situation, please keep these things in mind. I agree, with many others, that there's something seriously questionable about this whole situation. I think all of us here agree that safety is the first thing that anyone should be concerned about. No amount of money, or success in baiting, is worth putting yourself in an unsafe situation where bad things can happen. Robberies and murders aren't urban legends; they've actually happened before. So, no matter how much you feel you like this woman, or want to be a nice guy, keep your safety in mind first.

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:45 am

I dont mean to come accross all high and mighty, but does anybody have evidence of a troll?

Let us see what happens on Monday.

This is all unusual and like nothing I have seen before but I have been given some information that I have looked into with the help of another experienced researcher amonst us.

What we now know;
The name given for the aledged scammer is in fact the name of a real person, it seems that her identity has been stolen presumably by a scammer

All the hits found on the details given were in Portugese, unusual in itself, I would have thought I would find some English hits but no

The information given detailing the scammer does not fit the description of the person's name but there are many similarities, the actual person is a professor while the alledged scammer is studying nursing.

I have seen a picture of the aledged scammer, I bet it looks nothing like the girl seen on webcam, Jazz, would you mind giving me a brief description of the girl you saw on webcam, hair colour and approximate age will suffice
My gut feeling is that Jazz has been taken by the lure of easy money and partially believes because he wants to, luckily for him he is still somewhat sceptical and has taken precautions.

I would presume that tomorrow there will be an accident of some kind and the girl will not make it to the airport, from there, there is a whole range of options, we only have another day to wait so let us wait and see

@Jazz, The girl isn't showing, but in the interest of you easing your mind, see what happens, try to get her to email if you can and we can get an IP to tell you where the emails are coming from

Other than that, can we all please remain civil and stop sharpening those sticks Wink

If I am proven wrong, I will be the first to want to use my already sharpened stick, I have spent about 4 hours on this myself and I know others have spent time as well, lets just see Wink

Edited for typos

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:42 pm

^^Okay, you're right. Fair enough Smile

Not quite a Newb Joined: 08 Sep 2008 Posts: 66

Jazz, I see you have already decided to go for the meeting, but preparing yourself well. I just wonder, have you ever met face to face with a professional scammer, not one that persuades you to send him money by WU, but one who operates in interpersonal environment.

You know, I've seen people, who entered the stupid hat game and lost hundreds of dollars, even they knew well before it is not a game at all. They tell as any other victim later "I have no idea what happened to me, they made me join the game". You can not be prepared against those people, who are extremely good in psychological manipulations and have no barriers, that you DO have. Imagine you do suspect it is a scam. You will never tell it directly to that girl, it's risky and still you will not be sure. But than you can not have any excuse to turn around and walk away.

You will suspect, you will feel the things go wrong, but you will have a barrier of taking the risk to accuse her, and you will have the normal social barrier, that makes it impossible to disappear without an excuse. You will have to stay there and let her take you directly to the trap.

Or let me just make up a story, a situation, very possible in the scammer's world. She shows up with a suitcase full of cash - 50,000$. 30,000 to you, 20,000 she needs for her own matters. Do you have any excuse to refuse and leave her alone on the street in this point??? No. Now, you are the man, she is a woman, you are local she is not - please carry the suitcase, it will be safer. Can you refuse for this??? Never. Than she or something else will distract you for a moment, or you will be slightly hit a motorcycle, while crossing the road... Her colleagues will disappear with a suitcase before you understand what happened, or even leave you very similar one, but empty. The result?
Hey, man, you owe her 20,000$. And she needs it now. And you know, 20,000$ were her debt to some other guy in your city, well known criminal, that is about to meet her in the next corner. Oh, here he is! So you better find how you give it back for him.
HOW CAN YOU BE PREPARED FOR THIS KIND OF SCENARIO??? And look, I'm not a professional criminal - they of course have few tricks better than this.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 08 Sep 2008 Posts: 66

and something else, Jazz
You know why the hat game, though it is so old and well known, works so good? Because the victim has an illusion of having control at each point of the situation. It seems him, he voluntarily joins the game and does not realize he is violently thrown inside by sophisticated manipulations. It seems him, that HE does the decision, HE chooses the hat where the ball is located - the situation is under HIS control.
This the main point of successful criminal (and secret services). Any victim or any recruited agent is sure HE did the first step, he did the choice, he is in control. Vaanunu flew to Rome and was kidnapped there by Mossad agents, following his new "girlfriend". He was sure she couldn't be an agent, as that was HIM, who did the first step towards her, when she almost left the place where they spoke for the first time.
This is what means to be a good criminal - to lead the victim into making the wrong choice, to set enough traps around, so the victim steps in one of them, to know how to turn any step of the victim into a "profit situation", so the victim stays with an illusion, and the scammer with his money. If you had a different story - you would find yourself in a different situation with this girl, but all of these situations lead to the same result.

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 4:08 pm

If we are going to stop insisting on the troll theory, I also believe that everybody should also stop trying to convince this guy Mr. Jazz that this is a scam and that he is going to get screwed.

I think more than enough reasons have been given to him not to pursue this. So if he still wants to go ahead, he is either bullshitting us or he is very dumb. And in either case he should then deserve what is coming to him.

Can I suggest that everybody wait until Monday? (I just hope we don't then get another fantastic story to keep this going on).

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:22 pm

lol, just my 2-bits...

A.) Where did Jazz go? I don't think we've heard from him in a while.

B.) If it IS a troll, it's surely a fun one, I'm enjoying the discussion.

C.) It if IS a troll, it's the best badger impression I've ever seen Wink

Monday will be a fun day indeed...

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:27 pm

Without an IP address, we've no idea where the scammer is. Could even be Africa as Portuguese is spoken in Mozambique.
Assuming this isn't a troll, my money is on "her" being arrested at the airport for having $30,000 in cash.

419Eater is my life Joined: 08 Aug 2008 Posts: 475

so short before the very moment - letting down the trousers (
sorry for, it's a babefish translation)

- my kudos goes to: ..... Joaquin... & .... paraguay ....
yepp!!

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:45 pm

Paraguay - what's the "Hat Game" you're referring to? Is it something like a 3-card-monte/'find-the-lady' card game?

All I could find was this...
http://www.activityvillage.co.uk/hat_game.htm

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

Hello, all.

I've been away this weekend, on an island (yeah, you heard me, an island). I'm back and sunburnt now. Razz

However, I still haven't heard from her. She was supposed to give me the details about the time and location for the encounter, but nada.

To explain better the practical bit. Supposedly she left Brazil on Thursday. On Friday she was to withdraw the money from her bank account in Portugal. And then she was supposed to travel here on Saturday. Tomorrow (Monday) we were supposed to meet up, and then afterwards she would leave the country, the same day.

Like I said, there has been no sign of life since early morning, Wednesday. I'll have to check again later this evening/night and tomorrow morning, but if she doesn't contact me soon, then I guess the story won't have an end. Really don't understand what's taking her so long, if she IS in fact in the country now.

I guess I am as excited as you are when it comes to what will happen now. Razz

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:29 pm

Mr. Jazz wrote:

I guess I am as excited as you are when it comes to what will happen now.

I am not sure "excited" precisely describes how we all feel right now.

I have a gauge that has measured exactly what is going on here. But as agreed I will wait until tomorrow to show you all the gauge's reading.

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:20 pm

mrJazz wrote:

I guess I am as excited as you are when it comes to what will happen now. Razz

Very possibly the following will happen:

1. A Dr. will contact you to say she's been in a terrible accident, is in hospital and needs money for the bills.

2. Someone will "rob" her and she will have no money to get to you (please send money)

3. The hotel manager is keeping her captive because she can't pay her bills (due to being robbed)

4. She has a friend who owes her money and can help out by sending you a check - you cash it and send it to her via WU. - the check is fake.

etc...etc...etc...

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:57 pm

Personally, I don't think the girl will ever show up. There will be some reason why she could not. I'm sure all the baiters can make up a huge long list of the reasons Smile

I put 50 quatloos on "accident and is in hospital" and the hospital won't release her unless you pay money.

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:01 am

2. Bringing a friend: The assumption in this case is that, if it's a scam, she's coming alone. Plenty of people have been killed during scams due to hidden gang members showing up when you are distracted. One extra friend isn't going to help you in this case. Remember: if it's a scam, the woman is a criminal. Criminals don't act rational or reasonable, and they don't tell you that they're going to scam you or get you in a situation that you can't escape from. If they did, they wouldn't be criminals, they'd just be stupid.

thats what i was thiking of too . someone mentioned a wash wash scan earlier . if thats what i think it is does'nt it take more then one person to run it . whather this si real or fake it has made some infromative reading .

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:21 am

^^ Made some interesting investigating too Wink

I do ask again, put your sticks away for now and consider this.

A genuine scam victim comes along and wants help with a potential scam, they wonder where or if they should post and come accross this thread.

They start reading through and see what some have to say.

Would you post your problems here after reading this if you knew no better and were unsure if what you have been through is a scam? Wink

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:41 am

Still don't rule out the fact that it could be a baiter. Neutral

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:00 am

Corona you're right it could be, but the evidence I found does not suggest that.

Of course, a rogue baiter might use the real name and occupation of a real person to bait but I dont think that's the case here although I may well be wrong on that

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:06 am

^^^Thanks for your reply and you know the situation better than me.. Wink

Also, thanks for all you do, SweetCakes! Cool

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:18 am

For a newcomer with only 14 posts, Mr. Jazz sure handles himself very swiftly around the Eater ... And already knows many things it has taken some of us slow learners a long time to pick up ...

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