My friend is beeing scammed, please advise

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Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

Quote:

She is studying medicine yet has $30,000 to give away ? to a person she has never met before.

Catherine, if you would have read the very first post of this thread, you would have seen that my friend does mention her stating that she inherited money when her father died.

This could be a lie of course, as could all the other things she've said.

The reasons for believing that this is a scam is not that she hasn't been able to explain her access to money or why she "doesn't need it", nor the reasons for acting the way she does.

It is, however, improbable that it should happen. That's what makes all the readers of this thread believe it is a scam. And, well, I do realize it is improbable. But that's not the same as impossible. And that's basically why I decided to respond to my friend's thread. Because I would like to hear if anyone have just any clue as to how I can reveal this as a scam. I would like to be more convinced that this is a scam, if you all believe that it is. But I'm still not convinced.

Like I said, this one's hard to put in a box. It just doesn't seem to compare to the more typical schemes normally used in a scam.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 24 May 2009 Posts: 60

A 30 year old "girl" CAN open a bank-account (even in Brazil), and use ATM or bank-transfer.. No need for carry that much cash.. It smells "funny".

Anyway, have REAL fun at the hotel-rom -remember fresh rubber.. Wink

Good luck!

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:07 am

@mrJazz, could you post some of the emails that you have received from her particularly the earlier ones when it is likely she would have been on script, including the headers (blank out your email address).

That way we can firstly workout where she is emailing from and also search the phrases that she uses to see if they are known scripts.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:10 am

A couple more thoughts from a freshly rested manbiteslion...

She's flying to meet you, right? See if you can casually get some flight details and just see who comes through the doors and with whom? I assume you have a photo or several of her, so put on your best disguise and spend a couple of hours just keeping an eye. If she arrives by plane you get to see her general demeanour, who she's with, etc. If she doesn't arrive by plane, or not that you see, it doesn't peove anything but is certainly suspicious. In that case, maybe casually and friendlily ask how her flight was, and see if she mentions not flying or being caught up at customs or something - see if the stories and evidence lines up, really.

Can you check which universities she's studying with and make subtle enquiries? Do the stories stack up?

Other possibilities - this could be some kind of laundering activity, she gives you dirty money to buy her expensive gifts somehow, but it would seem like a dreadful waste of energy

Hoax - a friend, or some internet arse, is playing you just to be a dick. They exist, they should come here and focus their efforts against scammers and do something useful.

Sentimental/Fantasist - your new loving friend may be just a little unstable or boundaryless, and is saying all the things that she hopes will make you love her. In a way I rather hope it is this possibility, she's not being dishonest per se, but may be morphing herself into what she thinks you need her to be to keep your attention as you started to cool off slightly. If it is a slightly excessive romantic gesture like this, it'll come down to how much you like slightly obsessive clingy women - even/especially without the cash she may actually be a good woman who has fallen for you from your long deep emails, and hopes when you meet it will all be fireworks. We see a lot of people here and on related sites who are so lonely and desperate and think they're in mutual love they do and say silly things. Her mind may be seeing a hotel meet as a chance to display her affections and win you over.

I really rather hope its that last option, its the one that fits most consistently with what I understand of your story. Lots of deep chats with an apparently real complex human personality - maybe she's just in love and is scared of losing you. I know women in the real world just like that, so once you add in the immedsiate safe intimacy of the internet, your clearly intelligent and good character, etc, she may be hoping to win your affections. I'm such a sentimental romantic at heart, so I really hope this is the case as it involves matters of the heart and the cash may be a distraction. Maybe she does have an inheritance and wants to help you (hoping you'll feel obligated to love her in return) or maybe she hopes you'll meet, and the cash will be secondary once she holds you in her arms and you both fall deeply in love forever - which could be a bumpy but fun ride for a while.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:59 am

One thing to bear in mind - having a friend nearby to call the police if things go sideways is not likely to protect you from physical harm. That part could easily be over before your friend finishes dialing. Just to be more of a wet blanket, wearing a disguise to an airport is not a good idea either. Shocked

But whatever course you do take, please post here after. And welcome to Eater (I've wanted to say that for a while now). Very Happy

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:39 am

Good grief!
Why did it take so long for somebody to suggest he check the ip in any email headers?
Check to see if the emails came from where she claimed to be.

Have you seen this person on live webcam and if not, why?

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 689

You've been hypnotized by this "Brazilian beauty", "she" makes all those warning signs of it being a scam go away, because you've had your attention diverted by those big brown eyes of hers (or another pair of big things a little lower down her body).

A bad scam can be seen through very quickly, a good scam is deliberately targetted ... and you have been targetted because you ticked all the right boxes ... looking for love ... in debt ... gullible ... in the right part of the world(?)

Reality check time Mr Jazz ... it's far too good to be true .... so it isnt!

Posting the email headers gives one of the baiter experts here a shot of telling you this lovely lass is in deepest darkest ... NIGERIA! (or at least not in Brazil).

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:47 pm

Same thought as Stepan here, well done B8er.

The IPS can give a lot of information and the early emails may provide a clue.

Flight details cant be trusted either, it is quite easy to get some authentic looking flight details together, the airlines will actually help them do it and a great looking document can be produced in about 10 minutes when you know how.

I doubt the person will show at the airport, there are so many variations to this type of scam that it is hard to pinpoint exactly but it IS a scam.

If you can tell us which email you and this "girl" use we can give you instructions on how to retrieve it.

I spend a bit of time at ScamWarners and dont recall seeing you there, if you are there perhaps a link to your post will help and I just know there are some experienced members who can help you

While not entirely the same scam this one http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=670 looks similiar in many ways

Just adding, a photo or 2 may help as well, they can be searched on too Wink

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:54 pm

I guess my theory is really no more valuable than any of the others here, we won't know for certain until you meet up with her I suppose.

Have you been communicating with her strictly on the dating site or has it moved to normal email now? If you are in normal email, where do her email-headers/IP's point to?
Has she called you? Whats her dialing code?

To me, this sounds like a wash wash scam. The amount of money is there (30K) to make it just barely believable. Who wouldn't invest $1000 for an immediate return of 30k??

I understand what you are saying in regards to you being economically unable to assist her. But this isn't always a precursor to being scam-proof.

Scammers will (more often than not) aim for people they feel may be in a desperate or bad state financially. These are people that really need the money and are willing to jump through hoops to get it. (NOT saying this is you by the way)
Victims will beg, borrow, and steal money from all of their friends, family, jobs, and associates to try and get their payoff. Scammers know this.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 3:29 pm

^^Good points. Even people who don't have a lot of money can have access to credit, friends, family, etc. Many scams require no financial resources at all. If a victim can cash a check and wire money off, or make a bank account available for flashing or money laundering, or forward packages containing stolen goods to accomplices, that's more than enough for a scammer to turn a dollar on. Romance scams are very often the conduit for those methods.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:21 pm

just want to add if you have fallen for a scammer there is no shame in it . romance scammers are pretty good . a friend of mine got hit by a romance scammer in real life . sweet talked her into love with him and took just about every cent she had . the advice you get round here is usually on the money . protect yourself .

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

Thank you all for your attention.

First of all, no she hasn't sent me an email, the communication has been through a chat client exclusively. And no, we haven't been speaking on the phone. I would have checked her location if I could.

The communication has been "live", meaning that we have been having conversation in writing all the time. And yes, webcam has been used. There's not an obvious script for all of this, which makes it a hard scam to reveal, if it is a scam. To suspect it being a scam isn't really hard, but proving it has shown to be a challenge.

I have tried to google her and her familiy, but it seems that Brazil doesn't have an exhaustive internet-based phonebook. I couldn't find one for Portugal either. If anyone of you are able to find either, please let me know.

The "scare attempt" I mentioned earlier didn't reveal any signs of her being a scammer. Like I said, I told her about the things she had to do in customs, declaring the money and everything. She did in fact respond, with an offended tone, telling me that she was well informed about the things she had to do, and told me to respect her ability to think for herself. That's not literately the things she said, but my interpretation of it.

It actually seemed that she didn't quite understand what I was talking about, she seemed to mix together the declaration for the airport customs and the "declaracion" telling that the money would be a personal gift for me, which she meant to be information I should give to the government to work out the whole tax issue.

I was telling her earlier about two forms, the first one for declaration in customs, and the second one which is an official document the government requires to work out the taxes when a person recieves a money gift. The last one mentioned would have to include a bunch of personal information from her, and I would have to see her passport myself.

I'll come back to you all when I hear from her again.

Edit: For those of you that make statements about me falling for her beauty, etc, please read my first post more thoroughly (although it's quite long) Shocked

My interest lies elsewhere.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:08 pm

@Jazz

When is this meeting going to occur? (sorry if I missed it's mention earlier).
You say you have seen her on webcam? Or were you the only one being viewed?

I don't want to intrude at all, but would you be opposed to coaxing an email address out of her?
If you can swing that, and want us to check it out, you can pm it to one of the old and wise moderators or myself. We won't make any kind of contact with her, just run some searches.

Don't post it here in the forums though.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:11 pm

There is absolutely no shame in using an internet dating service. In fact, it's a really sensible thing to do because it allows people who have hectic schedules and introverted people to meet others in a healthy and productive way.

That said, because internet dating allows you to meet so many people, your chances of meeting scum are increased by just as much. There is a reason why people are cautious and wary of meeting via the internet. It's not about anything other than risks are very real and very dangerous. Have you heard about the craigslist killer in America? This guy would meet women on the internet, meet them at hotel rooms, rob them, and murder them.

Here is something to think about: what's in it for her? If she is interested enough in you, there would be phone conversations late in the night, instant messages, text messages. You interaction would not be confined to the web service. Yes, you may have seen her on her web cam, but so what? Pretty girls can be schemers; in fact they have a better time at it since their beauty detracts the bait from their scheme.

Also, how is it worth the money to fly out there for $30K? if you're in such financial straits, wouldn't it be more financially sound to not buy a plane ticket just to see if she shows up? why can't she just transfer the money? Why is she so willing to give it away? There are too many "why"s and "how"s and "what"s that if this were a scientific study she would be proven a scammer. Repeatedly.

You seem like a very sweet guy with a big heart and trusting. I am sure that would be the reason she chose you. It's incredibly likely that she "opened up" and said all the right things to you because she's done this before and she's probably talking with 5 other guys in your position right now.

What I think will play out: she most likely the bait for a group of men. They use a pretty girl on a dating site and they know men will seek her out. From there it is her job to "pour her heart out" and convince men she is emotionally attracted to them. This works easily because men are biologically wired as visually receptive to stimulus (whereas women favor emotional). she sits back and waits for you to reciprocate, which you do with the best of intentions. What she is waiting to hear is that money is tight. The odds are in her favor right now; it's not like world isn't in financial trouble. She has the story set up like she comes from a humble background because that's relatable. You're not going to open up about your money situation to someone who brags about being comfortable after a generous inheritence. Of course, by the time you do become that comfortable to talk about money, you're so deep into conversing with her that when she "confides" in you that she's really training to be a doctor you don't even notice. (by there way there is a huge difference in the training you need to become a doctor - a lot of obnoxious bio courses and chem courses etc not to mention $100Ks school costs). Her admission seems like an equal one to your opening up, because at the time you're vulnerable. You're baring your soul to her and you don't want to believe she could be manipulating you. At this point she can ask you to swim across the ocean to find her and you would. But she still hasn't made the attempt to talk to you outside of the site. That's what keeps the happily-ever-after dream alive. Once you leave that bubble and talk on the phone it is very fragile and one slight move could burst the bubble.

At this point you are going to fly out and meet her. There are red flags and people warning you but you can't see it. Literally those rose colored glasses. If you do go out and meet her here is what will happen: She will remain in constant touch with you until the perfect last second. If she's working with a group of men she will at the last minute have an excuse about her "brother" or soemthing being with her. She might actually be there, but she wont be alone. (if this wasn't a scam, just as you're bringing a friend so will she). Leaving the airport with these people you don't know is where you will get into trouble. Airports are safe thanks to triple security. The parking lot? not so much. The hotel? not so much. At best they'll rob you. At worst? human trafficking.

You said they have nothing to gain from you since you have no money right? Human traffickers want you. there are girls going missing all over the world a LOT lately. Girls are reported more because men are seen as being more likely to run away, like with a girlfriend they met up with online. The chances of people notifying the authorites in time are incredibly slime. You have 48 hours from the time your kidnapped for there to be even a slight chance someone can find you. Male trafficking is on the rise. And if you bring a friend along? they now have 2 people to make money off of instead of 1.

Kidnapping for ransom is out because their travle information is easily trackable. Drug muling? Maybe. That's probobly the most likely but it wont be without a real threat. It could begin as "we need to do this or X will kill me!" and the next thing you know you're making your 4th trip across the Atlantic and are in too deep to get out. The worse situation could be that they force you with violence. It is way to common now a days And i would be that much more worried since you are aware you have nothing tangible to offer her like money. Except you do and it's your body.

I really hope you don't go, and if you do I'd really like to hear about it if you make it back. I think you should take a step back from the situtation and instead of trying to prove to yourself she's fake try proving it's for real. Look at it as though you KNOW she's scamming you and work your way from there.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

Hi again.

I do in fact have her email adress. Is it possible to reveal the location based entirely on the email adress, without having recieved an email? If so, let me know. I have my doubt though, that the sender would turn out to be from another location than Brazil. It just seems like such a hazzle getting a Portuguese-speaking person to contact me, since my English is a bit more advanced. Anyway, it would never hurt to check it out, if it possible.

Look, I sincerely don't think I'm putting my life in danger or anything just by agreeing to meet her. And if it turns out to be a hoax, I won't spent a big amount of money by traveling. I'm not going to catch a plane to get there, the distance is not that great. And I'm not meeting her on the airport either.

The plan is, as mentioned earlier, to meet her in broad daylight, in an area of the city which is quite safe, and walk a few blocks. I won't be alone, there will be others around me (various friends), who will, in case everything turns out to be quite the contrary of what the most of you thinks, take me to another city by car.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 2

Hello everyone, I'm new here. I've been lurking for a while, first time posting,yada yada yada.

Before I get back into topic, first I'd like to say that I'm not an iliterate dumb. English is NOT my first language, so give me a chance. Perhaps I'm just dumb. ;-p

So this chick claims she is from Brazil, huh? Oh well. Being a Brazilian (and also an Italaian) citizen, I must say that it does seem a little odd. You see, 30.000 USD is a LOT of money here.

If you would require help from someone here, I would be glad to. Perhaps, if she is indeed a scammer, we could bring her to Justice here in Brazil.

Anyways, nice to meet you.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

Hello, Spekkio.

Yeah, she claims to be Brazilian and Portuguese (double citizenship).

She told me right from the beginning that she came from a wealthy familiy, her brother being a lawyer and her mother being a judge. Her father supposedly had a life insurance, and passed away, which is partially why she have inherited a lot of money. Or so the story goes...

Edit: Spekkio, does Brazil have an online telephone listing, where you can look up the name of a person and receive the adress? THAT would've been great! Razz

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:44 pm

@Jazz.

Ok, just to be sure. SHE is coming to meet YOU in YOUR city right?n She isn't expecting you to go to her country/city right?
Friends or not, I would advise you to NEVER go to a foreign city for such a meeting. You never know whether they have the police paid off or not. It may be unlikely, but not impossible.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 2

Being a Law Student myself, I know for a fact that judges do make a lot of money. But 30K is still a quite a large sum.
Can you give me some info on her? Her city, her name,anything? Perhaps her family name?

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

blah: No, no, no. I'm not leaving my country, and I am not travelling very far either. She's coming here, to a city not that far from me.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 27 May 2009 Posts: 62

Spekkio, sent you a PM. Not here in the forum.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:58 pm

There are a range of searches we can do on the email address to see if anything comes up, often if it does those searches may show an IP as well as other useful information

We can also send an email to somebody else an ASEM Accidentally Sent Email and hope she replies.

Something like

Quote:

Hi name similiar to hers

I have been trying to remember your email address, I must have just had one letter wrong but glad it has gone through

Please let me know you are safe and well

Regards
John

Most scammers will jump at it and it wont make them suspicious, try yourself if you like but obviously you will need a new IP hiding email address to do it Wink

Just adding

I dont mind looking into this for you if you can give me some things to search on,
email address
name
where she says she lives
The more you can tell me the better chance I have of finding something

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:53 am

This is just my take on what I've read so far.

H,mm...
Dream girl wants to get to know you.

Dream girl gets to know you.

Dream girl wants to visit you.

Dream girl gets invitation to visit you.

Dream girl gets visit canceled by you, (because of other Dream girl.)

Dream girl forgives you.

Dream girl wants to visit you.

Dream girl wants to give you money. (she has lots of it.)

Dream girl can't/won't/didn't make a bank account? (so has you do it..)

Dream girl has lots of money, but doesn't know/isn't sure how to handle it thru normal/conventional channels? (so has you do it..)

Dream girl wants to meet in a hotel room.

H,mm...
Sounds like a dream girl to me...

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck...

Is there no way to meet at a bank, and just do the "deal" at the bank?
It just seems like that way you could get the money part out of the way
and get on with showing her the town and such.

I don't mean to pry, but this particular of your tale, caught my attention..

"She was interested in visiting me. I basically thought "what the hell" at first, but then I was starting to get more interested in a girl I knew, and well, the visit was canceled. "

The "and well, the visit was canceled" part could mean many things to
many different people,

"a woman scorned" comes to my tiny mind...

Anyways, just be carefull, bring lots of friends, (try not to scare her.)
And keep us updated on this whole thing, Either way your gonna be way
better of money wise, or just wise... Good luck to you.

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 5:56 pm

just out of curiosity , not aiming my comment at mr jazz per se , we all know that people who do dating scams may not be who they say they are . photos can and are stolen , id's and nationalities faked. how can you be sure who you are in contact with is the person coming to meet you .

mr jazz is meant to be meeting this woman . could it be possible there is no woman involved at all .

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:06 pm

If you look at the prior posts, he has seen this person on webcam, so we do know there is definitely a woman involved.

Assuming the scheduled meeting is this coming Monday, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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