finding a love scammer's real identity?

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Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:00 pm

how do people find the real identities of love scammers, or scammers in general?
i have seen some identities published in this forum, and wonder how the technique can be applied more widely against other types of scammers.

with love scammers, i imagine they can hide behind a bogus defence that they were genuinely seeking love.
that would make it hard / pointless for the police to prosecute them
but with other scammers (eg, fake cheques) the fraud is more obvious,
so getting a real name might help the authorities arrest the scammer.

i can't find an faq on this, but i may not be using the right keywords.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:42 pm

Love scammers? It's fairly rare to find the real identity of a love scammer, with the exception of 'pro daters' from the Ukraine, some Filipina scammers, and a few stray wierdos or newbies.

If by 'real identity' you mean we know the public identity is fake, then that is easy.

Razz

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:44 pm

Vlads would have trouble claiming that they're legitimately looking for love, seeing as how they're usually men pretending to be women. And even if they were women, the former Soviet nations generally don't allow single women to leave their countries.

Lads would seem to have it a little easier on that count, since they're more likely to be men pretending to be men, they generally want you to go to them, and a lot of African countries allow a man to have multiple wives. But I think the fact that they use fake names, forge documents such as ID, and constantly ask for money to be sent to them in untraceable ways kind of negates all that.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:53 pm

WTF???

How many Lad love scammers have you worked, Bombast, and how many really wanted you to travel to where they are? Smile

Finding out who Vlads really are is not possible usually without people on the ground, usually in Mari El. Even then, prosecution is unlikely.
You may be able to see who is picking up the money, but it's not likely a member of the male gang, but a local student, prostitute, or druggie paid a few rubles to do the pick up, and who knows little or nothing about the actual gang.

The few Vlads who are caught, and usually plea bargain to escape prosecution are newbies/small timers, with the exception of the occasional roundup done for PR or god knows why they do it?
(Bribes slowed down?)

Single women can leave most FSU countries, but few western countries will issue visas to them easily, since they assume (correctly) that the lady will not go back home to Vladsylvania, but vanish.

(with the exception of affluent or business types)

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:15 pm

Myself and a few other baiters have managed to get the real identity of lads who are romance scammers, but it is the exception and not the norm. Sometime it takes a lot time or work and other times it is quite easy. Romance lads tend to beg or attempt to create pity so they're not doing anything overtly illegal. They request expensive gifts like computers and cell phones. Their reasons for needing or wanting the gifts may be a lie, but they are straightforward with the request. Some of them actually want to get married as a way to improve their life and believe marrying a rich western woman is a way to do it. Usually their worse offense is lying about being in love with your baiting character. If this is enough to get you arrested, half of the world would be in jail. Wink

The lads often reveal their identities as a way to build trust and prove they are truly in love with you. Some will provide a lot of personal information about themselves and family members such as home addresses. Sometimes it is fake and other times it is real and can be verified to a decent level of certainity. Until a lad does something out-right and unambiguously illegal, nothing will happen if you forward the information to authorities and that is assuming the authorities would act on it anyway. Most of the time, a lad's RL information can be used against them as part of the bait, thus the reason for getting it.

Vlads are crafty enough not to reveal themselves especially since their scams tend to involve more deception, out-right lies and illegal acts. For this reason, any personal information they give you is not true, thus of little value to the authorities.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:02 pm

@Stephan: It may be rare, but it does happen. Example.

It's possible (though difficult) to bait for real identities. I've seen members here get their scammers off script and work an angle like "helping" a lad get a visa. If the scammer is serious about getting to wherever it is he wants to go, and not just interested in making up visa related fees for you to pay, it can be done. The problem is, once you have it, there isn't much you can do with it. Without evidence to show crimes have been committed, the authorities won't take action. Connecting their attempts to scam you, say to one of your baiting characters, isn't enough because if you never sent any money, a crime has not occurred.

All too often with real victims, justice is just as intangible. For example, the victim in the link I posted above had an enormous amount of information about her scammer and his accomplices: names, addresses, photographs, etc. As far as I know, she was never able to get anyone arrested.

That isn't to say we shouldn't try for arrests. I'm just making the point that it is very difficult to accomplish.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:45 pm

Like I said, a few wierdos or strays.
Wink

Elite Baiter Joined: 11 Jul 2007 Posts: 1979

I have a rather large collection of real identities and am finding it easier and easier to out them these days. What's creepy is that most of these lads like to . . . ahem . . . show their wares on cam, so my collection is becoming pornographic in nature.

Like PRSGG said, it takes time, perserverence and patience to do it. With mine I actually appear on cam to them. Even though I'm an older woman, for some odd reason the cam is kind to me and takes off years. I am also blonde and the lads are oddly drawn to white women with light colored hair. That too is creepy but I exploit it.

I convince them that I have money, am only interested in black men and am fixated on the rumor they all have oversized equipment. Like moths to a flame, they can't seem to resist that temptation.

I guess it's not likely you male baiters could use my techinques, but it works for me. I usually use the video and pictures to expose the lads as a deterent to future scamming. I work hardest to convince them that I am not a lone example of women wise to their scams and predict lots of baiting and maybe even prosecution in their future if they don't desist.

My latest one has been a lot of fun. He is still insisting that the pictures aren't really him and he knew I was a baiter all along. I'll let you be the judge. Sorry the quality is poor as the resolution was lowered to post it. WARNING!! RATED X FOR FULL FRONTAL MALE NUDITY!
http://romancescambaiter.com/videos/kelvinmark/kelvinmark.htm

This guy has dozens of identies on the net but I got him as Kelvin Mark. He's also the infamous Mark Smith that MurryGuru and I baited last year. I matched up his phone number when he gave it to me. That was a small surprise. I've since found several other of his identities by his phone number, as victims have posted it on romancescam.com. This is one scammy bastard.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:30 pm

hmmm, lots to reflect on here.

i can see that getting real identities is more difficult that i'd hoped,
and that it can't easily be transferred to other type of scam, which is what i was hoping.

thank you all for your answers to my question, and for the discussion.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:38 pm

I suspect there is a little bit of a stereotype of FSU countries and their people (especially the girls). This is understandable and to be honest, it is very rare to find a modest eastern European girl. That is at least how it is from my experience of living here.

I have, however never heard of single women not being able to leave their country. From experience, I can say that getting fake ID in eastern Europe is like buying cigarettes in America. No challenge at all. Quality does vary though and I have myself had an offer of a fake US passport for $5-10,000. (That's 5 thousand, not 5). I do not know how well these are made, but they are considerably better than the lad ones.

Also on very bad thing about immigration in Europe is that once you get into Shengen you can travel anywhere you want within the EU without any ID. Of course you should always have one with you, but if it was good enough to get you in, it is good enough to keep you there.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:58 pm

Always a pleasure when you stop by OBL

Just adding to the info on Mark Smith, he is currently using the name James White, I know this because he is the latest lad in the Spooners thread to show any promise.

You will be pleased to know he seem to have fallen for us (joint bait and we both write as time permits) and his daughter little Jane that you so kindly helped with her problems last year, she hasn't grown a day older since then Wink

You will know how to find the detail I have on him at SW if you want a look.

It is also nice to know what the scamming piece of crap actually looks like, one of his victims didn't want to believe he was anything other than a white guy laid up in hospital, that picture is posted in SW as well. I was contacted by one of her family members and it took months for us to stop her from sending money, even though we could show her most emails she received, date stamped prior to her contacting him, even though I showedd her taht man in hospital picture posted elsewhere, even though I showed he the picture of teh ring he had supposedly bought for her (incidentally the same one I gave to my baiting partner).

Since the I have been contacted by several of his victims and they are all completely heartbroken when they realised he was just some scamming piece of crap.

It always warms my heart to know that one of these lowlives had been baited to hell

BTW
sometimes, just sometimes, scammers will give you their real names when telling you where to send your WU payments to, problem is knowing when they actually use their own names

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 1:59 am

Well... looks like I came to a few mistaken conclusions.

I thought I'd read somewhere here that there was actually more difficulty on the Russian end as far as international travel goes, but I can't find it now. Must've read something wrong. I guess I was inclined to read it that way because it'd make sense with Russia's population problems and with its government that's still run by a lot of those old Soviet bureaucrats.

As for my belief that lads generally want you to go to them, I guess that came from the fact that a lot more of the baits I've read here lead to that than to the lad wanting to leave Africa. I suppose I should've realized that the baits that lead to an attempted kidnaping are just much more likely to be published, as they'd seem to make for more interesting reading and probably lend themselves to safaris a little more easily.

Sorry about giving wrong information there. Stepan is definitely in a better position to know all that stuff than I am.

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:52 pm

No, my comments were made in relation to the typical 'love scam', not a love scam turned 419 or immigration scam.
Smile

'Real identities' are lovely, when you can find them, and publish them.
It may lead to shame from friend or family, or the same friends or family showing up at the door with palms outstretched.

Better, still...other scammers, or corrupt cops recognizing the face and paying a visit.
While prosecution would be nice, a shake down, or beat down is ok in my book.

Smile

(Not meant to encourage violence....)

Elite Baiter Joined: 15 Sep 2008 Posts: 1006

Quote:

As for my belief that lads generally want you to go to them, I guess that came from the fact that a lot more of the baits I've read here lead to that than to the lad wanting to leave Africa.

Bombast - contrary to how our mutual safari makes it appear, I think a majority of lads (if not all) don't want their vics coming to Africa at all. That's because most of them are African men pretending to be white...I think that's the sticking point we are at with our lad..he looks nothing like the pictures he sent me. Very Happy

And he is not willing to admit that even though I have given him plenty of opportunity to.

What the love lads want is to get their vics to send them money..over and over. And reship merchandise paid for with stolen credit cards. And accept WU payments from other vics in the US, creating an aura of legitimacy, and pass them on.

Sometimes it's fun to force their hand by "coming to Africa"...I'm having fun with our shared bait and I'll bet lad is too...but I'm sure lad never considered asking me to come to Africa. I kind of maneuvered it. Twisted Evil

PS - Not to say that some horrendous things haven't happened to vics who have traveled to Africa with money..and if my character had been a real person and had actually met up with lads "brothers".... well, these are criminals.

Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 7:03 am

I'm having fun with that one, too, Becky!

Is that how getting our characters out there for kidnaping usually works? We generally suggest it ourselves? I guess they would prefer one WU payment after another, wouldn't they? I'll have to keep that in mind.

Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 12:52 pm

how i got the real identitys of 3 scammers, were by being realistic, have a life for my charactor, and it was believable.
they fell in love.

so then they told names, addresses, family and so on.

but i know this is not happening all the time..

patience, and being realistic was my way.
matching, followint the flow, humour, chats phone, laughing being sad.. well was tested also and yes i know how denmark is and our culture.. so no problem writing danish, or speaking it..

or catching them in using google translator..

and when i said i am sad, i also wrote that way, and i know the consequences of breakdown, that she had had, and every time they streswsed her, she broke down.

natural ofcourse.

i stopped the baits when i found out they redused to scam her as they were them selves.

1 desided to get a job

Other baiters were not able to bait him then. He had desided this was not him.

He by the way blesses her marriage and love later, though he was sad. Had him too on webcam..

another desided to scam on, as my charactor desided to marry another ..

he showed in cam, and send funny new year pictures:) had a good humour actually..
but nothing could make him stop.

He had made his mind up, when he could niot get her. and well he did not care for consequences. i dont know what make some people totaly block for reality, and cheat others for cash. he did not try to scam her.. also he did not want money from her.. only those he did not like.
Criminal mind. and actions.

i told all the scammers the same storry.

if she was in love with one, all knew.

but she did not tell them the name;)

so they were really curious who it was she was visiting the last time when she wanted to marry a nigerian.

well that nigerian offered to send money to her as he cared.
but also he had told so much about scammers, hin self, on webcam and about family, that well.. i felt like a scammer..

he really was deadly hit by cupid.

Got allot of trophies then,
things happened in nigeria.
and i heard some went to the police for a visit.

some mails ipps and things were mailed to the real efcc and so..

It ended there, with her.
she flew to usa, for a meting about her milions ..and after she dropped all.

one of the fiste is begging to come again..
kenneth.. this was the longest i had.. he never revieled anything.

Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 1:32 pm

Quote:

My latest one has been a lot of fun. He is still insisting that the pictures aren't really him and he knew I was a baiter all along. I'll let you be the judge. Sorry the quality is poor as the resolution was lowered to post it. WARNING!! RATED X FOR FULL FRONTAL MALE NUDITY!
http://romancescambaiter.com/videos/kelvinmark/kelvinmark.htm

This guy has dozens of identies on the net but I got him as Kelvin Mark. He's also the infamous Mark Smith that MurryGuru and I baited last year. I matched up his phone number when he gave it to me. That was a small surprise. I've since found several other of his identities by his phone number, as victims have posted it on romancescam.com. This is one scammy bastard.

Wooooh thats Kelly Mark or MArk Smith.. hmm interesting.. That one i never got to see real idd on..
have had both idds through my year with the very sweet one.

What a extra large ahem.

he was the doctor in the kenneth bait ..that held his son hostage on a hospital for ransome. really drama.. i wish you had sound on, as kenneth and kelly had different voices and accents. and i knew other idds when they called, as i recogniced the voice.

Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 1:54 pm

Bombast:

As stated above, the vast majority of scammers don't want you to travel. This is especially true of romance scammers, because they are most likely pretending to be white.

For other types of scams, however, you may be asked to travel. The truth is, most of the time they still don't want you to, but they are setting you up for a new fee, as in "ok, since you can't come to visit and complete the transaction, you can pay these extra fees and we will pay a barrister/banker/etc. to get this done."

There are a few scammers out there that do want you to travel and are looking for victims to kidnap/rob, but those are actually pretty rare. There is a much larger risk of getting caught (and a much larger penalty) if there is any kind of face-to-face contact with a victim.

The vast majority of scammers are non-violent and they are not major risk takers--they stick to the "minor" crimes for which they have a low chance of getting caught. --their goal is to sit on their butts in front of a computer while the money comes to them. The only time they want to get off their butts is to travel to WU and puck up their money.

The problem is you never know when you may be dealing with that rare violent lad, so we assume all lads are capable of violence.

Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 3:21 pm

Another way to look it real identities to think like the lad. Think "What advantage or benefit do they receive by revealing their true identity?" Revealing RL information is a risk if they are doing anything illegal or started the scam off with a big lie. In my experience so far, once a romance scammer gives up their RL information, they are looking for a relationship and not only to scam for money and gifts. They may beg and lie to receive gifts and money, but they are still looking to snag a rich western woman to support their lazy asses. Once it turns into a pure romance scam, all you have to do is offer to come visit and they will often readily accept. This is when it becomes much easier to safari their sorry carcass all over the place. If you don't have their RL information and they want you to travel, as previously mentioned, it is a ploy to get some money from you. It is too risky and complicated to have you there in person. While kidnappings and such are rare, it has happened when there is enough money involved.

If you manage to bust a lad as a scammer and he admits to lying, on occasion he will try to shift to a pure romance scam. Getting their RL information is easier once this happens. They have to gain your trust again, thus are easier to manipulate at that point. It is unbelievable they think you would still be interested in them after all of the lying and deception. The combination of arrogance and stupidity is amazing sometimes and can be used against them.

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