Okay so if I want to report a scammer what do I do?

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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:26 pm

Ooh.. Well, there's also the fact that they're lads... which means that subtleties don't work as well as on 'normal' people (like you (or me for that matter))... As greedy as they are you still have to whack them on the head with (false) opportunities for more profit because they won't notice them when you just dangle them a mere 2 inches in front of their head...

Them being lads makes it extra hard to make them see the theme, sure: them not seeing the theme of a bait makes it all the more funnier to read for others but it doesn't 'transform' them and is therefore not very useful in this case...

If you have any (more or less) concrete suggestion's, please let me know and I'll try them...

EDIT: I know that you know it's easier said than done... But we can't really do anything about it without anything concrete... Which is partially where all the annoyance about your arguments is coming from I guess...

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:27 pm

modernPrimitive wrote:

Sure, easier said than done.

Now that one line is the smartest thing you've said all day. Wink

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:32 pm

You'll find an identically worded copy here
Sometimes scammers claim it is their second email, and give this as the reason for not quoting the name of the deceased. So they get the victim's name before having to name the deceased.
This doesn't seem to be the case here though.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:34 pm

Master of Puppets wrote:

Ooh.. Well, there's also the fact that they're lads... which means that subtleties don't work as well as on 'normal' people (like you (or me for that matter))... As greedy as they are you still have to whack them on the head with (false) opportunities for more profit because they won't notice them when you just dangle them a mere 2 inches in front of their head...

Them being lads makes it extra hard to make them see the theme, sure: them not seeing the theme of a bait makes it all the more funnier to read for others but it doesn't 'transform' them and is therefore not very useful in this case...

If you have any (more or less) concrete suggestion's, please let me know and I'll try them...

EDIT: I know that you know it's easier said than done... But we can't really do anything about it without anything concrete... Which is partially where all the annoyance about your arguments is coming from I guess...

Okay can you keep me posted via PM and we can discuss some concrete ideas as the opportunities arises? Go ahead with your normal strategy of course.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:59 pm

Continuing negativity resolves nothing. The facts speak for themselves. Allow modernPrimitive to discover the frustrating world of scambaiting.

Edit: Removed the word anger to avoid confusion.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:10 pm

I agree with NN. No need to carry on with the topic of the locked thread into this one as well.

can I have an Audi now?

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:39 pm

modernPrimative-well you sort of got off on the wrong foot,but I can't say I haven't done that myself more than once in my life.Personally,I have no problem being an "internet cowboy"as you put it.Still,your approach may at least be informative if nothing else.I sent this one a reply mail,and will somehow try to work reform into my bait.I have no clue how yet,but as a great movie character once said,I'm making this up as I go along.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:16 am

blah wrote:

can I have an Audi now?

Of course you may! - enjoy as this is a replica of the exact same pink audi that our dear Nurse used to drive. Laughing

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:07 am

what, all you have to do is ask now? My lips are still sore from what NN made me...

oh, never mind.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:54 am

@ mP - Here is the ID of a real internet scammer. I had baited him for a few days, then had him off script. I offered him the chance of a lifetime and he latched into it with a firm and mighty grip.

He also sent me a copy of his birth certificate, letters of employment, official documentation from the Republic of Togo on visa applications. Everything. He even sent me his personal email address and confessed that his brother (the scam email account) told him about this opportunity. Of course it was him. He'd sent me most of the ID through his scamming account.

I then placed a few calls and emails to the Togo Police force, showing them all the evidence. I passed them everything. Copies of the scams emails and the ID. Nothing happened. He's still wandering around scamming in the net. I baited him from a different account for a few weeks and even rejected his application.

This is frustration.

Continued negative and unhelpful comments will be removed. We've all said our piece in previous thread to this person, now with facts we will prove the futility of turning scammers into real people.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:27 am

The danger with the opening question to this thread is that the answer is obvious. It's like asking the Caravan Club about cycling holidays.

Quote:

Okay so if I want to report a scammer what do I do?

One of the primary (but not sole) purposes of the site is baiting scammers, so adopting a 90 degree attitude, is bound to create confusion, if not a prickly response.

You have to ask why, if you don't feel you can bait for moral or ethical reasons, why you want to join a baiting site. We don't solely bait, and those who don't wish to do that, or that isn't their skill set, can kill fake sites.

To bait or not to bait - that is the question, for you. No animosity in the answer, just some puzzlement.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:39 am

hmm...okay. I've given this some thought.

Just to be clear, there's no animosity or negativity on my part. Everyone has their own way of baiting and I have to respect that. If I'm going to get involved then I'm going to do it according to my own morals and ideals and my posts here are as much a reflection of that as they are a questioning of how to go about this.

Now I realize that a "direct" reform approach (preaching) will not work - perhaps there were some misunderstandings about this. What I'm talking about is a cognitive approach. You can't tell someone not to touch a hot plate, most of the time they have to touch it and learn for themselves. What I see in many of the antics (such as safarying) is an opportunity for cognitive behavioral therapy. So what I need to figure out is how to use these baits as opportunities to cognitively teach the principles used in successful criminal reform methodologies.

Baiting does induce cognitive responses (any life experience does) - I mean look at the love sick lads who are willing to spend their last pennies on a promised romance. At least here they're learning some lessons about happiness, money and passion. Sadly one could also be teaching them that following one's passion doesn't have an emotional or financial payoff - whereas I personally believe that the true way to happiness is through adhering to one's passion, listening to one's dreams so to speak. That's my personal philosophy and please I'm not pointing fingers here. Bait according to your own standards by all means.

So the point is that for baiting to be viable for ME according to my own sense of ethics, I need to figure out how to apply the above ideology to the practical tried and tested methods of baiting.

Anyway, I hope I've explained myself properly this time. Hopefully we can leave the ethics debate behind us and move forward onto practical matters.

Any progress with our lad? Please PM me, I'm not sure how involved I will get as I probably need to play more of a spectator role until I understand baiting methodologies a little better. Of course I'd like to throw in some ideas from the sideline but within the scope of being a spectator.

PS: I'm going to have to change my nick if I'm going to get involved here, so please expect mP to disappear shortly.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:00 am

@mP (or whoever you become) - frequently new members have some sort of Welcome thread. Your first one was less than hospitable, so - welcome aboard! I'm glad you decided to keep up with us.

I would also suggest you consider trying a couple of straight baits yourself. It wouldn't necessarily involve a trophy or safari or anything like that - just a chance to run through the process and see what really happens. Paranoid's suggestion of getting a mentor is a good one if you try this, and he's probably not too bad a teacher.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:32 am

Fuck me. Lad psychology 101.

@MP. Just bait for a few weeks and you'll soon change your tune. Seriously.
The thing is though, we see a lot of guys come here, give the opinion that baiting is a big moral issue and then we never hear from them again - they either discover that they're wrong and slink off with their tails between their legs or preach from a position of ignorance not knowing anything about the lads or the way that they operate. The latter is just a fly-by-nighter who never sticks around long.

So regarding this statement:

Quote:

m going to do it according to my own morals and ideals and my posts here are as much a reflection of that as they are a questioning of how to go about this.

I'd say that there's absolutely no problem with that if you stick to the idea that you're questioning and not preaching. Preaching to people who've got years of experience in dealing with vermin isn't going to get you anywhere.

You're not the first to question ethics, morality and the psychology involved - in fact, I'd say that the vast majority of baiters here have dealt with those aspects at least once some time in the past.

Like Krona says: start baiting. It doesn't matter how you go about it - throw in your personal ethics all you like - but once you've got involved you'll probably find that your attitude will change and even if it doesn't, at the very least, you'll be able to give an opinion that is based on a bit of first-hand knowledge.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:50 pm

To avoid confusion mP has changed his name to GnarlySpoof.

I concur with my fellow baiters Gnarly. It's time for you to get your feet wet, then come back to us with verifiable data on your methodology of ethical positive baiting. I'm keen to see results. Just remember to avoid involving any innocent third parties, for example: Don't have your scammer contact a real church in the hopes he will confess his sins and give up his life of scamming. He'll only be doing it to get your 'money', and when he doesn't, he may believe members of this church are somehow involved. Err on the side of safety.

Give it 3 weeks of baiting, with a mentor, and then let us know what you think. I wouldn't mind help you out, although I'm probably not a great candidate for showing you how to convert a scammer. I opt for a more direct form of revenge through humiliation. Smile

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:28 pm

@gnarly - I think others have mentioned this before, but one very useful approach might be so-called "straight baiting". That is, just get into dialogue with your scammer, and try to keep the conversation going without sending him any money. This gives a very good idea of how scammers work these particular scams, and also allows you to take an angle that fits your own personality and goals. Trial and error is a good enough way to get this underway if you're inclined to do this without the guidance of a mentor (I get the idea you're an independent sort of person).

Of course I'm biased because this is my own preferred baiting angle: I don't do safaris, or trophies, or third parties, or anything else like that, just try to keep them on the line as long as possible. I once had grand ideas about gradually molding a scammer's way of thinking by my own subtle efforts, but these days I just try to keep them going as long as possible. There are all sorts of opportunities to try different psychological pressures and techniques just to see what happens. The biggest challenge is doing this in a baiting context, where the scammer is inclined to drop you if you don't pay out (or offer the promise of paying). You'll find that this has to be kept in mind just about all the time, in order to keep him interested in you.

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 518

Good luck with your baiting, Gnarly. Looking forward to reading your work. Smile

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:52 pm

Enter Mr. H3inus Ch4lm3r.

Erm there was a topic here somewhere that I can't find now - a way to get your catch account propagated without signing guestbooks. Can someone point me in the right direction please.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:01 pm

@Gnarly

Here's a huge list of scammer email addresses.
http://www.419baiter.com/_scam_emails/scammer-email-addresses.html

Just toss them in the BCC line and send a quick "That sounds interesting" reply.

I believe gmail limits you to 500 sent-emails per day, so keep that in mind when spamming these guys.

If you have any inquiries, just ask! Very Happy

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:35 pm

One of the stickies in the help-forum is about a 'shuttle', read the first post about how to sign up for it... It's set to 'launch' in april...

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:42 pm

Okay I've created a different mail account, i believe gmail strips IP headers (is that correct).

I've chosen the honourable Barrister that I mentioned in an earlier post. Perhaps it would be best to engage in some coordinated baiting with experienced baiters. I'm also going to have some time restraints on this one as I'm going to be traveling over the next few weeks.

EDIT:
Any progress on this guy?

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:51 pm

Gmail does strip your IP, but only if you use gmail through your browser. Using it through Outlook seems to include headers (or so I've heard)

I got a reply from this lad... But haven't thought of anything to reply to him..
My days just don't have enough hours...

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:40 pm

@gnarly:

I see this discussion is almost over, but before it ends I have a few comments.

Quote:

So what I need to figure out is how to use these baits as opportunities to cognitively teach the principles used in successful criminal reform methodologies.

Good Luck. Any behavioral therapist knows that sociopaths cannot be rehabilitated. Especially ones who specialize in criminology, and lads are sociopaths. When something is nonexistant, you can't create it, namely a conscience. You can't just start teaching morals to someone when there is no frame of reference to begin with. Sorry, but I think it's both ignorant and arrogant to think you can reform someone - no matter who it is - just because you think it's the right thing to do.

Quote:

Baiting does induce cognitive responses (any life experience does)

You're exactly right. Cognitive implies knowledge and awareness. Responses imply choice. Simply put, scammers are completely aware of what they are doing, and they do it because they choose to.

Quote:

I mean look at the love sick lads who are willing to spend their last pennies on a promised romance.

HUH?? What have you been reading? It's the other way around. The lovesick victims are the ones spending their last pennies, not the lads.

Quote:

At least here they're learning some lessons about happiness, money and passion.

Let me translate into real life what that sentence actually means: The only lessons they learn pertain strictly to how successful or not they were with their last victim, and what to try or not to try next..... their happiness pertains only to their passion, which is obtaining money by whatever unholy, deceitful, method they are able to conjure up.

Do they have any redeeming qualities at all? I don't know. Perhaps you'll be able to find some after you've put them through rehabilitation. Sorry for the sarcasm. I really need to avoid all ethics discussions.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:48 pm

Can we stop with all that and let him conduct his experiment in peace?

Wink

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:58 pm

Yeah..let sleeping dogs lie.

I've got an angle too - at least I think it's pretty good for a newbie, now just to find a whole bunch of appropriate "safari" pics (of my own).

PS: I need to be quite clever here and bait the guy before I get into trying to rehab him....I see this as an ongoing process of course.

EDIT: I think some serious annoyance from other baiters would seriously work to my advantage here. Drive him crazy and I'll offer him a "way out". This bait is also going to accommodate the time constraints I'm going to have regarding my travels. I'm going to have to play this carefully not to loose the lad tho'.

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