Important: Maybe we ought to be carefull with trophies.

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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:26 pm

If that were true, there would've been a revolution by now in Nigeria.

Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:15 pm

Suvrat wrote:

The wheel of karma is always perfectly in balance.

If the "pissee" was coerced into the photo, he will harbor resentment and work against those who coerced him in the future. You can bet he and his friends and family will do what they can to oppose the mugu scammers in the future. I find the idea that he was coerced extremely improbable. However, what goes around comes around! Payback's a bitch!

If he was complicit, then he got what he deserved. Piss on 'em!

If he was paid, (the most likely scenario) then obviously he felt that the utility of the cash he was paid more than offset the disgust and humiliation he had to endure, and the mugu who paid him is out the necessary cash in the process.

I think it's a win-win situation personally. I have no pity for any involved unless there was coercion.

If the wheel is perfectly balanced then the baiter would be the one getting the bad end of the Karma. That is if the mugu found some innocent Nigerian and threatened them to do something awefull for a picture.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:19 am

Have fun, never mind the consequences, . . .

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:44 am

I for one am convinced that it was NOT the actual scammer in the picture, because from what I know, the guymen - at least the successful ones, not the wannabes - have quite a status in Nigeria and are feared and respected likewise by a wide part of the population. Those wouldn�t ever kneel down and be pissed upon, I can tell you that much. This is either, as has been suggested before, someone that�s been forced (the two pissing guys look like teenage boys, not men) or *maybe* paid to do this (I doubt it), or it must be the most desperate, honor-lacking guyman I have ever seen.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:04 am

IMHO, we can not really do any baiting if we worry too much what might happen and who gets hurt.

On some of my audio trophies you hear young boy or girl calling and older man giving orders what to say on background...

And how can I know if I get my mugu's to sent fridge to me that they do not steal it from poor family..

My point is: It is really up to mugu's and I am not the one to worry what they do. I just hope they get problems if they do something illegal (steal, force people to pictures)..

Btw, if the people were forced to those golden trophies Smile

Why the hell could they not avoid situation where they do the re-take. I bet someone paid for these or on the other hand - I have seen mugu's stupid enough to do that really..

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:46 am

Well, I guess you have a point there. If any immorality is involved, it will always be on the mugus side. We do not KNOW what really happened and under what circumstances the pictures were taken, but if someone was forced to take them then it was the mugu who did it, not the person asking for the picture.
I guess it is up to everyone to make up their own mind whether this is right or not.

*** BANNED *** Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 111

hoohoonick

I agree, these people live in poverty (third world nations at least) and it says something if they would go to such extremes as being urinated on in the hope of receiving money. I think its cruel, and that the baiter in that case should send them at least a few dollars.

Threatened or not, they dont deserve treatment like that.

I have also been pondering that they might conjure up negative feelings for Christians and western society in general if they associate us with being such bastards, and, well in a society like ours, the west doesnt need more enemies than it already has.

I think there has to be a line drawn in all aspects in baiting.. In the phone calls i think some of the audio files where that guy is screaming at them, is over the line. In pictures, the urinating and nude ones are over the line. The church scenes where they join "churchs of satan" and even though i dont doubt that they actually keep with there religion, making out that they join another - totally fake religion is horrid, why bother putting them through such hurdles, what does it achieve?

Yes, trick them, but done be inhuman.

I think that the people here are too captivated by the stereotype that they are mass murderors and that they are bad, they are, but they are still human, they dont deserve to be degraded. It is lowering our standard to be as bad as them, if not worse.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:52 am

1337Poster wrote:

if they would go to such extremes as being urinated on in the hope of receiving money. I think its cruel, and that the baiter in that case should send them at least a few dollars.

Urban legend about poor scammers. Nah - They are just stupid and greedy. If they manage to steal $60000 they will be asking for more next day - ALWAYS.

People who live in poverty can not afford to use internet cafe's and real photographers / etc etc.

Btw, Is that cruel if police captures thief who steals your car to get food for his family ?

1337Poster wrote:

Threatened or not, they dont deserve treatment like that.

You get what you order..

1337Poster wrote:

I have also been pondering that they might conjure up negative feelings for Christians and western society in general if they associate us with being such bastards, and, well in a society like ours, the west doesnt need more enemies than it already has.

I do not give a shit what criminals or their associates think about us since at the moment they see western society and christians as greedy, unbelievable stupid and potential magas..

1337Poster wrote:

I think there has to be a line drawn in all aspects in baiting.. In the phone calls i think some of the audio files where that guy is screaming at them, is over the line. In pictures, the urinating and nude ones are over the line. The church scenes where they join "churchs of satan" and even

If we do it softer - nobody pays attention to this. More extreme results we get (receive money and amazing photos) makes this hobby more popular = People hear about the 419scam and there is more and more people wasing mugu-time.

1337Poster wrote:

though i dont doubt that they actually keep with there religion, making out that they join another - totally fake religion is horrid, why bother putting them through such hurdles, what does it achieve?

Hey, what is wrong with joining Church of Satan ? I have always given them a lot of reading and itroduced my pets were well into satanic philosophy Twisted Evil

I achieve making the point: My pets will do anything I want and they do not think at all what they are doing.. It is good to show what kind of persons we are dealing with: They do not give a shit if their victim is sick or getting killed by their actions and they are ready to get pissed on if they get money.

1337Poster wrote:

Yes, trick them, but done be inhuman.

1337Poster wrote:

I think that the people here are too captivated by the stereotype that they are mass murderors and that they are bad, they are, but they are still human, they dont deserve to be degraded. It is lowering our standard to be as bad as them, if not worse.

Once again I totally disagree. IMHO: Most of my pets I have played seem to be totally senseless criminals willing to do anything to get my money.

My point is = If you try to steal my money, brake into my car or house - You agree to take a risk to be shot to your head. And YES - I protect myself and persons close to me with ANY possible way.

I have only one rule in this war - I try not to harm innocent = I do not ask them to kill chickens on photos / etc..

Btw, we should really go much more low than this to get on their level.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:00 am

Come on guys, lets be honest. all the people involved in the trophy pictures are probably just friends, family & fellow tradesman scammer mugus.

Do you honestly think someone would get hurt by just "posing" for a photograph?

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:03 am

I was thinking, a lot of people can't pee if they are nervous. So it's probably some of the lower ranks of the scammers.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 40

Lets not forget about the victims who have been scammed out of thousands of dollars already. A few have even been killed!

Scambaiting is a small way of fighting back and I see no reason why it should stop or be more careful.

These mugus are evil and will do anything to get your money, this is our way of saying "stuff you". Cool

WAAS

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:05 am

Quote:

Btw, we should really go much more low than this to get on their level.

You mean posing for Golden shower pics ourselves?? Shocked

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:07 am

Quote:

You mean posing for Golden shower pics ourselves??

Or even poo pics???!!! puke

Not quite a Newb Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 21

Let's look at it this way.... they volunteered to have that picture taken. Sure you might say someone was threatened into having the pic taken BUT I doubt it. If I asked my girlfriend to let me give her *CENSORED* and she allows me - am I really doing anything wrong? I haven't forced anything on her: so even the most degrading of acts when done willingly do not neccessarily infringe on a persons rights.

MOD EDIT: This is still a public board and we do not want google to index us with p0rn sites, so please consider our PG rating

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:34 am

Quite awhile ago there was a mugu/scammer/troll or someone complaining here that the people in the photos were forced to pose for the pictures, under the threat of physical harm or worse. No one took them seriously at the time. You can search for the thread if you like.

It is a possibility it occurs or could occur. The question of 'where to draw the line' is pretty straightforward for me.

Anything which is simply 'humiliation' (all trophy pics so far, including the pissing one) are fine. Anything where there could be actual injury or danger (sex for example) crosses that line, because you could have unknowingly caused an innocent person to be raped. If someone is just humiliated, it is the scammer who did it, and I really don't care, there is no lifelong damage or anything.

Elite Baiter Joined: 03 May 2004 Posts: 1008

I see it as they probalby promised somebody money for such pics. If they did not pay them already. If the person posing does not get the money he will probably go crazy and at least one good ass whooping would take some place, along with several verbal arguements. This will spread the seeds of hostillity and distrust among the scammers.

If nothing else, at least the mugu who agreed for them to take these pics will feel and look like a fool to everyone who knows about it when he fails to get paid. Esspecially if its made clear that he was playing with him from the start. It's to bad you cant CC all his buddies in an email.

So we have ass whoopings, arguements, and guymen looking like fools. Either way the result is good.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:00 pm

Well, you can always tell your mugu that you hired a hacker to brake into his email account and sent the pictures to all his buddys. I think he'll flip at the first queer look one of his buddys gives him for any other reason.
Other than that i go with Canucklehead. if the photographed people are really victims, they would probably be mugging victim anyway if the scammers were not busy with scamming.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:37 pm

I've got a feeling we are going off-topic here.

A few remarks:
In the last couple of posts, the conversation is about:

On extreme-trophy's, are the 'models' offered money, or threathened?

Let's be honest: we will never know for sure. All I know, is that chances are pretty high that they are not payed, but threatened.

Note that this topic however, is about "Because chances are there that they are threatened, should we be carefull?".

It's in general, not only about the warm-shower pics, that's just an example.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:03 pm

Most are said I think but anyway.

I have been thinking about this trophy business too. When we hang out a (scammer) with a sign or doing something embarrassing which aren't the scammer but maybe a poor innocent person, maybe they should hold a sign saying "I am being paid" or "I am not the real scammmer" joke. Maybe it is possible to find a way of getting the real scammer on photo? maybe not. Maybe we should make it clear that the person is not the scammer on the picture but one paid to do it, when we know it isn't the real scammer which it is not in most cases I think. This pissing business didn't amuse me at all. Trophies that really hurt the scammer or made them pay for something (not picturs) should be highly regarded like Janne Pekka`s for example. I don't mind someone poor earn some money not at all but.......... Confused

Charlie Fake`s idea a is good one Smile

Hurray For Norway

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:42 pm

Froya wrote:

Hurray For Norway

Thanks, but I only just moved here for a few months ago. I'm originally Dutch Smile

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:49 pm

Sorry guys, I think most of you have never seen really poor people. The guy in the warm showers photo may not be the scammer, but look at him carefully and what do you see?

In the UK and US most down and outs are alcoholics or drug abusers and so their blotchy skin and bloodshot eyes are not typical. However really poor people tend to have dirty hair and look unkempt because they do not have free running water. They often are not only be undernourished, but also mal-nourished with poor skin (vitamin A B and C deficiency) a pot belly and spindly legs. Their clothes are ragged and greyish in colour. Other factors are that their eyes tend to be sticky and they may look pale from anaemia. Think of the starvation pictures that assail us from time to time.

Now going back to the photos, all of the individuals in the last set of 3 are well nourished with good skin colour and tone. I think the 2 naked men may even work out and the guy in the middle is wearing an expensive shirt and has a decent hair cut with no traces of kwasiokor (the reddish tint to hair caused by vitamin deficiency).

On looking carefully at the original picture, a similar pattern emerges although the bloke on the left is differen with a fatter stomach and bigger backside and I think the bloke on the right is also different as his bum seems lower slung. The central figure is wearing a grey shirt but is I think the same guy with well nourished skin on his arms and a reasonable trim figure. The fake head is ridiculous particularly with the extra piece to cover the open neck of the shirt..

My analysis is therefore that no really poor people have been used. That leaves 2 possibilities.

1) The central figure has either been paid a significant sum of money to pose or has been blackmailed into doing it. In my view highly unlikely! These guys are merely jack-the-lad types.

2) The central guy is the scammer and his mates are having a laugh for a share of the profits when they come. At least I hope it is the scammer in the middle, otherwise he is likely to be severely beaten when the truth emerges.

A good trophy, but probably not for the trophy room.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:55 pm

@Old Coaster,

Thanks, that's good information and arguments on that specific trophy.

So now that we have established that the people in that picture or not poor, we can assume that they would not do it to get a few bucks. Thus, chances are higher, that they were (for example) some guys that come in the same internet-caf� as the mugu and got threathened to do it, is that what you are trying to say?

(of course, all this is 'probably' and we can't be sure about these things)

Note however, that the piss-pics is just an example of what this topic is about.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:20 pm

Sorry hoohoonick, but if someone wants to earn a few bucks by being peed on what is wrong with that? I must admit, it is not to my taste, but these ladies earn a good living from it NOT WORK and probably NOT HOME FRIENDLY either www.peelover.com

With the violence alternative, have you ever mixed with young Nigerians? The ones I knew when I was out there were good fun and had a great sense of humour. Minor scamming is a cultural thing - for example scamming fags and beers was considered clever if you could get away with it - hence my jack the lad illusion. Now the people who go regularly to the internet cafes are mostly friends and 419 scamming is seen as an amusing way to scam silly foreigners. At this level, the scammer respects being outscammed by the baiter so a baiter may be invited to join the scammer to make money.

It is when one gets further up the chain that the ugly violence appears - the kidnappings and murders are carried out by scammers 2 or 3 levels above the simple catcher who having hooked a fish, may feel he is getting out of his depth and passes it up the chain in return for a percentage of the final take.

These higher levels are professional gangsters with all the trappings and here scamming is no longer a bit of fun.

I would not lose any sleep over the vast majority of trophy pictures. If you want to worry think of Monica or Leslie Fountain.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:57 pm

hoohoonick wrote:

Thanks, but I only just moved here for a few months ago. I'm originally Dutch Smile

Oh what a shame. Sad

Hi Old Coaster
It poor and then its poor. Rolling Eyes

who is Monica or Leslie Fountain Question

And by the way i think you are right.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:36 pm

Quote:

Sorry guys, I think most of you have never seen really poor people. The guy in the warm showers photo may not be the scammer, but look at him carefully and what do you see?

I have been to favelas in Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay and Argentina and can rightfully claim to have seen some of the poorest of the poor.
And what you say is right, OC. Good observation.

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