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ithor
Not quite a Newb
Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 37
Location: North
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Posted:
Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:38 pm |
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A Houston lawyer is suing Citibank after being taken for $182,500 by email scammers claiming to be a debt-chasing Japanese company, Texas Lawyer reports.
Howell is seeking "$182,500 in actual damages for Citibank's alleged negligence" plus "a minimum of $367,000 in punitive damages".
Citibank has denied the allegations and wants a "take-nothing judgment". The bank's attorney, Yasmin Atasi, insisted: "We are not liable for those funds."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/30/texas_lawyer_scammed/
And more details here: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202427717175
What do 'eater members think? |
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Mr Tambourine Man
Baiting Guru
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 3398
Location: Magic swirlin' ship
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Posted:
Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:34 pm |
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Quote: |
and advised the firm that one of its customers had agreed to make a partial payment of the amount outstanding.
On Oct. 7, 2008, the firm alleges, it received a "Citibank Official Check" for $367,000,
in allowing a wire transfer of $182,500 |
That's a very high commission for doing virtually nothing, Although he'd have lost more if he'd accepted a lower percentage.
I'm not a lawyer, but I dn't think he's a chance. |
_________________ is always Good when you have the zeal to be a hitwoman when you out of school,it makes you bold and reall and it makes you more high than any other of your friend.
NOW AMBACK FOR YOU AGAIN STURBORN SHIT
you dont have a phone.that makes makes you joe butt
Fuck you and go find something to do man. Stop disturbing me please.
This is definitely why you will remain and die in poverty, ignorant of good things and easy acknowledgment of bad things and words. Shame on you, you wicked generation children.
i went you to no that this is not a cheld pray. i went you to get back to me
we are not scammer,we hate scammer as you do.scammer make out life harder and harder,a lot of people think we are scammer,in fact,we are not!! please trustt us |
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irishemigrant
** REMEMBERED **
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 4933
Location: 40*45' S 172* 34'E
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Posted:
Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:15 pm |
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Quote: |
He says the HPD declined to investigate because it involved multiple jurisdictions, and the Secret Service was not interested in investigating his firm's loss, because the amount was too small.
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$182,500 may be too small for the Secret Service, but if the lads get 10 of those a year, they're doing considerably better than I am.
It's really annoying that the SS doesn't look at the overall picture, or maybe they do, and just decide it's all too much bother |
_________________ SeniorNet NZ Local Branch ongoing workshops about internet scams
http://www.scamwarners.com/ For when you want to remember why we bait
Goodbye Mike (Paranoid) Friend, confidant, partner. Till we meet again.
Personal Message From The Axeman
<-- Because you have earned them. x8 a few x 13 |
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Newdonym
Elite Baiter
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 1043
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Posted:
Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:35 pm |
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I bloody hate lawyers like this. I really hope the judge actually slaps him in the face. If s/he can't do that, then I hope he gets thrown out and maybe gets disbarred for douchbaggery.
He just doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions. I wouldn't say he's a fool for falling for it, but rather a fool for everything else he seems to stand for.
Do you think this is part of the big cheque scam ring we've been seeing on ScamWarners? |
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GomerPyle
Baiting Guru
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 8875
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
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Posted:
Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:11 pm |
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From a UK perspective, it would all come down to the exact wording the junior clerk used when informing the lawyer about the fate of the cheque.
In the UK, if the clerk just said it was cleared, then the bank would likely be found to have been negligent.
UK and US law are similar, but I don't know if this judgement would come out the same. As most banks record calls it's not going to be hard for a court to reach a judgement.
Without doubt the lawyer was, as he admitted, a dumbass, but a bank is also deemed to be a body whose advice and guidance can be taken as reliable, so a straight 'it's cleared' would be treated as something a customer could rely on. To protect themselves the bank should include some form of caveat warning of the potential outcomes.
UK and US law are not the same - but this could be a case where both parties are at fault. A lawyer should have some knowledge of the clearing cycle - so US law is likely to reduce any award if he did win.
Just my own thoughts. |
_________________ Fake sites killed 1 x 9 x 3 x 168 X
- the 'Asparagus Kid' - Accra to Lome - You Must surly Die in The Name Of Jesus Christ
- Steve - Lagos to Accra
- Frank - Lagos to Cotonou - co-bait with the vampire
- Shorty - Lagos to Cotonou - My Agro Base farming where i rearing chicken and other animals was set ablazed overnight and we do not know who is actual behinde all these evils! -
I and my crew was locked up for 3 good days….They wanted to charge us to court but later we are fined an huge amount of money…I asked them why did they arrest the men, they started laughing and saying all sorts mockering words! -
…because now, am left with nothing and remember i told you my Guy (Joe) gave up earlier this morning |
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Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.
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Posted:
Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:14 pm |
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It's very doubtful that a judge would find in favour of him.
If he did, it would open the floodgates for compensation claims. There's really nothing of any difference in this case with any other cheque scam.
I would be very, very suprised if he gets a single cent back. |
_________________
God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole |
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Ima Baeder
Baiting Guru
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 18313
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Posted:
Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:23 pm |
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I'm not familiar with UK banks, but know that US banks do have it in writing that you are responsible for all checks to your account, even if the money has been made available to you. I see no negligence on the part of the bank if that is in place.
Gomer: I don't particularly care for any victim being called a dumbass, even if he has previously said so himself. Some of these scammers targeting lawyers are quite convincing and smart, as we've seen on the thread at ScamWarners. |
_________________ 348 Fake Sites killed
x 100 2 Years |
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GomerPyle
Baiting Guru
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 8875
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
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Posted:
Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:59 am |
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I can't apologise for an insult a person levels at himself. |
_________________ Fake sites killed 1 x 9 x 3 x 168 X
- the 'Asparagus Kid' - Accra to Lome - You Must surly Die in The Name Of Jesus Christ
- Steve - Lagos to Accra
- Frank - Lagos to Cotonou - co-bait with the vampire
- Shorty - Lagos to Cotonou - My Agro Base farming where i rearing chicken and other animals was set ablazed overnight and we do not know who is actual behinde all these evils! -
I and my crew was locked up for 3 good days….They wanted to charge us to court but later we are fined an huge amount of money…I asked them why did they arrest the men, they started laughing and saying all sorts mockering words! -
…because now, am left with nothing and remember i told you my Guy (Joe) gave up earlier this morning |
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Mr Tambourine Man
Baiting Guru
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 3398
Location: Magic swirlin' ship
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Posted:
Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:51 pm |
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UK law changed in November 2007. See here
Quote: |
If the cheque hasn't bounced and been debited to your account by the end of the sixth working day, the bank or building society will not be able to debit it to your account unless you give your permission or unless you are a knowing party to a fraud. |
I suspect that a bank would challenge this on the grounds that a lawyer was negligent.
I'm with GP here. "Cleared" only means that there were funds in the account to meet the check, and that the amount had been credited. Not that the check was genuine. If a lawyer doesn't understand this, who does? |
_________________ is always Good when you have the zeal to be a hitwoman when you out of school,it makes you bold and reall and it makes you more high than any other of your friend.
NOW AMBACK FOR YOU AGAIN STURBORN SHIT
you dont have a phone.that makes makes you joe butt
Fuck you and go find something to do man. Stop disturbing me please.
This is definitely why you will remain and die in poverty, ignorant of good things and easy acknowledgment of bad things and words. Shame on you, you wicked generation children.
i went you to no that this is not a cheld pray. i went you to get back to me
we are not scammer,we hate scammer as you do.scammer make out life harder and harder,a lot of people think we are scammer,in fact,we are not!! please trustt us |
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mrsbean
Elite Baiter
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 1775
Location: North of the Rio Grande, South of Alaska
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Posted:
Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:34 pm |
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I'm torn. Yes, it seems like the lawyer should have known better and had better resources for educating himself than the average mark, but he did at least believe he was performing a service for a client that wasn't far outside the norm for him. And I have to point out, very much to his credit, he admits he made a mistake, and more shockingly, covered the loss out of his own pocket. That's some refreshing integrity that you don't often see these days when most people would be whining it's the firm's responsibility.
The way I understand the terms in the U.S. banking system, "fully cleared" actually means the check has been fully vetted and the money is legally yours, no backsies. Making the money available to your account does not mean the money is yours, yet, and many banks/tellers have a nasty habit of using the term "cleared" when what they really mean is "the money has been made available to your account pending full clearance". This confuses customers and the banks don't do anything to clear up that confusion unless it's to their advantage. The terms aren't interchangeable, but your average banking customer thinks they are.
Law firm account or not, I wonder why wasn't a temporary hold placed on a check that large? My bank puts a hold on anything over $10,000 and won't credit it to my account for several business days. They even did that with a cashier's check that was cut by a bank immediately across the street...
Anyway, I think it will all come down to the language they used, too, and what, if anything, was in writing. If the lawyer has something in writing stating the check fully cleared... the bank is probably going to have to eat the cost. If he doesn't, the bank seems to win every time. If the bank essentially lied or misled them into believing the check had been fully cleared, they should eat the cost of the check but not have to pay any punitive damages. Court costs, perhaps, but not punitive damages.
Much as I would like to see a few court cases like this force some sort of reform in check clearance, I doubt this one is going to come out in favor of anyone but the bank. Doesn't sound like they took any special precautions and the bank certainly won't admit a mistake if they made one. |
_________________ Night of the Deaded Banks - 6 x x26
I believe that you cannot get this type of opportunity again till you enter grave, you are such a bounch of stupid that I have never seen. - Jerry Gezi
Heaven help us, I've started publishing my baits in a blog... If you want to learn how to straight bait, thisaway...
Straightbait
Nifty anti-scam sites of interest
Artists Against 419 | Fraudwatchers |Scamomatic | Scampatroll Scam Victims United | Fake Checks Dot Org |
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mewing_ghecko
lad harasser
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1564
Location: I was born and raised in... oh look something shiny
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Posted:
Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:43 pm |
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a few common questions answered regarding fund availability in US banks.
http://www.helpwithmybank.gov/faqs/banking_funds_available.html#drop08
I am not an attorney, but I do have a few i call friends. we have discussed similar suits in the past and it was explained to me as such; cases like this often times never see the inside of a courtroom. in many situations, these cases are settled for pennies on the dollar with gag order stipulations put in place.
someone files files a suit for $200,000.00, instead of fighting, the defendant company settles for $50,000.00. it's cheaper than paying a team of attorneys to defend the companies reputation, investigate the claim, defend the claim, advertising & marketing to rebuild the reputation, etc.
often times, it's cheaper to pay than to fight. |
_________________ "nice try you want to spam my box asshole"
"fuck u and that of your company".
"ASSHOLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"FUCK YOU".
"I know person like you fucking scammer".
"FUCK YOU ASHOLE".
"fuck off" Mr Fr@nk Ch@ka
"You are nothing but a crook and a liar,how could you send a fake transfer receipt to me and think that you can fool me".
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x? (only Alan knows)
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jojobean
Baiting Guru
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 7586
Location: YOU WILL DRINK YOUR URINE IN A COMERCIAL BUS
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Posted:
Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:50 pm |
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Most banks (in my small experience) are pretty clear about the terms of check clearing, specifically about the funds being made available even though they are not necessarily cleared. I know that there does seem to be some vagueness to it though. Perhaps it should be a bit more advertised.
I am going to have to lean to the side of the bank in this instance. |
_________________
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Kenny 3k miles- dont f*ck me up about the payment plz. i have a policy about that. I JUST GOT A SMALL GOAT TODAY AND ITS IN MY HOUSE NOW. i lobve the goat.
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JMRazor
Baiting Guru
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 7103
Location: Yes
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Posted:
Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:08 pm |
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I actually defended a bank in a similar case (for less money). In the U.S., nothing the clerk says will override your written account agreement. Moreover, checks are never "fully cleared" -- they just haven't been rejected yet. There are rules on how and when checks can be denied intra-bank, but the point is that the checking system is really only present for convenience. As between you, your bank, and the person who wrote the check, the bank is in the worst position as to whether the check is "good".
Think about it, the bank merely processes a piece of paper promising to pay you a sum of money. The bank knows nothing that isn't displayed on the face of the check. Moreover, it's illegal for the bank to pry any deeper than that. Why blame the bank when you're the one who decided to cash it, not knowing the legitimacy of the person who wrote it?
Anyway, I was successful in defending the bank based on the (a) the above rationale, (b) some technical issues, and (c) the fact that these types of scams aren't exactly unknown these days. |
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Tastysnack
Elite Baiter
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 1407
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Posted:
Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:22 pm |
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It appears that JM is a Barrister. Did you happen to use any phrases such as
"I am writing today in a most urgent manner"
"I eagerly await your positive response"
"Please forward the appropriate documents including a nose print" |
_________________ "I DO NOT THINK WE CAN DO THIS TOGETHER. YOU HAVE BROUGHT MORE PAINS TO ME THAN GOOD." Mr. Wang Yan- After I attempted to rebait with same name as last time. 2-4-09
"you are the must fool i have ever seen fuck you like the 12.5 million idoit dont write me again" Radebe Gumede 7-16-09 after his bank transfer failed.
"Sorry we do not know Mr. Gomer. Send that email fromthe so called gomer to us for scrutiny."- Devati Mooleedhar
SON OF A DOG GO EAT SHIT AND DRINK WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOSERRRRRRRRR.GET A LIFE--Bakar Saud (After Mr. Gomer chopped his dolla')
YOU ATE OUR MONEY AND YOU START MOCKING US--Bishop Anthony
Fake Checks Received= $63,487 US |
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