Baiting is fun but - I am telling them the truth

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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:09 pm

A lot of people aren't going to like what I'm doing. I've received so many scam letters in the past month, I can't keep up with them. Don't tell me to pass them into the unused pile either so others can get their hands on them.

What I did was, -- I responded to the lad and got him going for a couple of days and then ---- Bang!!!!! I told him what I thought of him and his goat of a mother. Then I told him I've contacted the police in his area after searching his name, reported him to IC3 and the works.

I'm sick of playing with these turds. I cursed the guy into the ground and got my true hate out. Baiting and screwing these guys is all fine and dandy but, I want to tell them exactly what the F they are. Sick of pussy footing around playing them. It doesn't work. Maybe people need a hobby and keeping some idiot on a false string appeals to them. I'm going to berate them and report the bastards to the proper authorities.

419baiter is a lot of fun but, it isn't going to get these guys arrested and that's what we need done.

So, I'm going to get a ton of bitchin' from people here. I don't give a shit. There shouldn't be corrupt scammers on the internet in the first place. The government and Internet providers could do a better job at stopping this but they don't. Maybe we need to get after them as well as fighting the scumbags. Makes fucking sense to me.

I've had my computer infected, abused and have to put up with this garbage? Scammers are easy to track down and catch if the government would spend money to do it. I am going fucking Rambo and doing anything I can to stop these pricks. Sending one of them 1000 return mails for a start. What's he going to do? Report it.

send him his own mail back. send big files to plug up his mail. do what you want to do and have fun. I'm going to fuck with these guys on any level I can.

Steve T

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:16 pm

Hi Steve,

Whilst that is your decision to make, if you read a little more deeply some of the threads in the help & tips forum, you may find out why we don't bother doing that - it's just as easy for a lad to drop an email address and create a new one as it is for me to put on a different pair of socks in the morning (and despite what my wife says, I usually manage that after the second or third try Laughing

)

good luck with what you want to do, however don't expect much support here Wink

Baiting Guru Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 3551

lesabre101, many of us are frustrated with scammers who clog up our inboxes and cheat people out of money they can ill afford to lose. But take a deep breath here, calm down, and realize that your harsh words to them don't make an impact. Many other things do, like baiting and gaining bank accounts to report.

You've been here almost a month. If you haven't read about how to bait, please do. If you don't want to bait, then perhaps this isn't the place for you. Telling people here you don't give a shit about their opinions isn't going to go over well.

Baiting Guru Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 12237

They will just ignore your rant. If you do manage to scare a few, they may close their email account and simply open another. This is not a good thing because if there is a LEO somewhere conducting an investigation, and the lad closes his email account, the investigation is trashed.

I understand your anger, but your approach is not constructive.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

The number of scammers out there is frustrating. You swearing at them will do no good, however.

Here are a few thoughts for you:

If, by some chance, their email account was being investigated by authorities and your mail bombs cause them to abandon it, you're actually interfering with investigative work that may have been done. Additionally, if their mail address was published on anti scam forums/sites and you cause them to abandon it and open new ones, you're interfering with spreading the word, which is the most effective tool to fight them.

If you don't have the patience for baiting, but want to do something to fight internet crime, why not get involved in fake site killing, phone lad killing or some other activity?

Baiting Guru Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 12237

lesabre101 wrote:

419baiter is a lot of fun but, it isn't going to get these guys arrested and that's what we need done.

Your approach is going to get 0 arrests, and may hinder some potential ones. Baiting has netted a few, and provides a valuable resource for potential victims.

Have a drink and relax, if you need a mentor I am available.

Fixed Quotation Tags -- JMR

Baiting Guru Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 3123

Yes, I would work on what you want to achieve by joining this site.

So I couldn't give a shit if you don't give a shit about my opinion, but there it is.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7103 Location: Yes

lesabre/Steve T -- we can't stop you from doing what you feel you need to do. If the years of experience that the members here can't convince you of the error of your ways, then I suppose that is that.

However, we think what you are doing is not only wrong, but foolish. The authorities will never catch the lads based on your forwarding emails. You will never stop the lads by flooding their accounts with spam. We know this to be true.

If you want to go off on your own, god speed. However, we will not engage you in a series of debates. This thread will quickly pile up with voices trying to talk you out of what you are doing. It may get heated. You may feel insulted, or you may lash out at us for trying to "censor" you. You may suggest that we are stuck in our ways and suffer from "groupthink". Whatever your opinions, nothing you have suggested hasn't been thoroughly thought through already.

My point is this: if you won't listen to our suggestions and experience, then there's really no point for you being here.

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:35 pm

Quote:

Bang!!!!!

Are you sure you don't mean "Fizz!!!"? Because that's all the effect, if any, such an approach has. PFrank and Ima speak with wisdom. Listen to them, grab a beer to unwind as suggested, then sign up for a mentor and start causing lad pain, not lad giggles.

You'll find it even more satisfying.

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:47 pm

Quote:

I'm going to fuck with these guys on any level I can.

That's good, very good, apparently you have the time to do so, so take the offer of Pastor Frank and ask him to teach you how to set up an ASEM that will get you a Real Life bank account from the lad, that you can shut down by just sending his email+header to Allan, add a piggy to your sig and get the next one, while doing so you will slowly improve your scoring and get lots of their bank accounts shut down. They loose access to their money, might even loose it forever and you give them the most damage you can do. There are other baiters too that are very success full with this method and kill an account a day if not more.
Anger is good, now direct it to the right individual and you raise havoc there, no bank account, no credit, no credit card and keeping your cash on you will get you robbed over there Wink

And there are other ways to show your love to your new "friends" so you never get bored here Laughing

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:04 pm

I think baiting has quite a wide spread effect on the scammers.

To name a few baiters get bank accounts closed, stolen credit card accounts closed, fake sights shut down, arrests, etc.

I like your enthusiasm lesabre, pointed in the right direction i see mass destruction..

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:16 pm

Quote:

The government and Internet providers could do a better job at stopping this but they don't. Maybe we need to get after them as well as fighting the scumbags.

Which government? The victim is rarely in the same country as the scammer, and police forces don't cooperate readily with each other. Neither do police forces have the resources to deal with 419 scams.
In an ideal world, LE would put scammers out of business, but in the real world it isn't going to happen any time soon.
The amusement in this and other scambaiting sites is only part of it. We waste spammers time, warn and educate the public about scams, etc.
Personally, I think we do more to fight scammers than the police, and he hate them just as much as you do.
But we think our methods are more effective than the one you used.

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:22 pm

@Lesabre

I'm really new here too pal. I can understand your annoyance at these guys, every time a victim posts on these boards and tells their horrible story, I get raging pissed.
But if I just go to the email address the victim posts and cuss out the scammer, he/she is more like to just laugh at me and go on typing to a real victim.
It's about as effective as yelling at the sky.

The last thing they are going to worry about is you threatening them with police action. Most of their governments are either corrupt, or so busy with other problems that 419 is the least of their worries. And last I checked most countries don't extradite for fraud cases.

Really the only people you end up hindering or "screwing over" are your fellow scam-fighters. By educating these lads in ANY way, you make our jobs a lot more difficult while making the scammer's job infinitely easier.

Please don't take my post as anything other than me talking to you as a friend either. I'm not meaning to be offensive to you or anything.

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:29 pm

If you really hated the scammers you would join us in our fight and not distract other members from their efforts.

Master Baiter Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 108

I can get just as mad most days when I get dozens of emails offering me pills I don't need, or asking me to confirm credit cards details. You feel just like replying to tell them to ****-off, but on reflection it's quicker just to ignore and delete them, as all that you otherwise do is confirm that your email addy is active and that you are reading the trash!

I'm still much of a beginner, but I had the chance recently to help out in the most minor way on a bait...no more than watching a webcam for half-an-hour for another baiter. But when I spotted the scammer who had been safaried half way across England to collect a non-existant payment, I jumped up with pure delight....it really feels that good to score a point against these guys. But the baiter only succeeded in that through thought, patience and skill, not by getting mad.

Baiting Guru Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 12237

lesabre101 wrote:

A lot of people aren't going to like what I'm doing.

Prophetic. Perhaps we should give the OP some breathing room to respond.

[/backseat mod]

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:31 pm

Please don't mailbomb. I've been recently targeted with mail bombs by some do-gooder who thought my email address was a lad's. I'm still trying to sort out that box. The fellow who is doing this to me is also unwittingly throwing other non-scammers email addresses to the lads, so he's not accomplishing anything. He's only making it worse.

Besides, I'm sure the lads know how to filter their mail just like we do. Either that, or they'll just move their magas to another mail address. We see that happen all the time.

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:41 pm

There isn't really much more to add that hasn't been already stated. Trust me, I would gladly trade all of my safaris for just 1 shiny badge if it was possible.

I personally think the next best thing is to waste their money, and closing bank accounts and shutting down websites puts a dent in their wallets and makes them feel financial pain.

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:49 am

Quote:

Joined: 10 Dec 2008

Wow. You cracked early.

While your frustration is understandable - If you do come up with a new way of having lads arrested on a mass scale, then I'm all ears.

Telling lads how poorly you think of them won't achieve anything. They'll treat you like spam and delete. Your efforts will be wasted.

We do what we can with the tools we have.

I have also removed flaming comments with the intent to incite. Any more abuse will be removed, and my second PM will come with a warning tag.

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:16 am

I have complete respect for those who do bait but dont find time for baiting myself these days.

I have found others ways to help reduce the number of people scammed which occupies as much of my time as baiting ever did.

In order for me to do what I do now, I had to learn about scams and the way scammers work, the best way to do that is by baiting and keeping in touch with those who do.

No point in adding any other comments as the OP was expecting that we wouldn't agree but you wont get flammed from me for hating lads or having ideas, directing the ideas and hatred in a controlled manner will have much better results. Wink

Perhaps the OP should be directed to some mass insult baits and given the skills to avoid insulting ITPs

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:58 am

lesabre101 wrote:

I'm going to berate them and report the bastards to the proper authorities.

Okay, trying to be constructive here, I would suggest thoroughly reading the forums here and preferably at some scam information sites geared toward victims. For a few weeks, at least. I'm a big believer in sitting back and reading and soaking it up for a while. I lurked for six months before I ever registered, and probably read and posted a further few weeks before attempting a bait.

You seem to have the idea that the above will actually result in something constructive. Other than blowing off some steam on your part and maybe getting a scammer's dander up for ten minutes and getting him to waste a bit of cafe time insulting you back, it won't. It's sometimes a bit of fun, but it's not the most effective baiting technique.

I'm afraid the "proper authorities" aren't going to do jack because some person emailed you, you played along for the first two or three emails of an obvious scam script, then cussed them out. In fact, reporting it to the authorities would only waste their valuable time, unless they're just doing statistics-gathering. It might technically be "attempted theft", but the police have to use some judgment about using resources on cases where there is some realistic expectation of there being an arrest and conviction.

It's like insisting on going in and filing a report on every jaywalker you see, without even giving a decent description. "It was some guy in a coat this time!" Annoying to the police officer, and not much help in curbing the problem. The authorities aren't going to break out several hundred man hours and tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in crime-fighting resources to go hunt down the totally anonymous dude in a country where they have zero jurisdiction and the local authorities probably have zero interest in scammers except as a source of bribes just because a scammer annoyed you for two days by daring to land in your inbox. They've got more pressing problems in their own jurisdictions.

Plus, scammers use disposable, anonymous emails and prepaid phones, they use fake names and fake ID, they don't send their real passports or real documents. They don't hand you the address to their house and a mugshot, in most cases. If they did, I could have had about a thousand badges in my signature by now.

I've volunteered on a scam victim support site for some time. I regularly talk to victims who lost money in a real crime, sometimes several thousand dollars. They often get sympathetic looks from the police and not much else. Some even get turned away and told not to bother filing a report, because they are not going to break out the crack international investigation team for a $2000 loss. It simply isn't worth it for the .000000000000000000001% chance of actually getting past square one. And most police departments simply do not have the tech resources to handle the investigative side.

I often get the task of telling these people that, no, the police are not going to go all Jack Bauer on your scammer even if they did just lose their entire life savings. That's television. In the real world, we have to deal with things like burden of proof and jurisdiction and corruption. And the fact that the scammer has told you nothing but a bucket of lies, and no, that passport isn't going to help, because it's been created in Photoshop, using a celebrity chef's picture and name, and the fonts don't even match. I can tell you, it's not fun. It's also not fun informing them that the bank almost always has the law on its side when you cash a fake check and the victim is the one who gets the short end of the stick. Or that Moneygram and Western Union really mean it when they say they're the fastest way to send CASH, and that they aren't meant for business transactions, and that the warnings on the form you fill out aren't there just to take up space.

Quote:

419baiter is a lot of fun but, it isn't going to get these guys arrested and that's what we need done.

I agree it would be nice, what you're suggesting isn't going to get it done, either. Even less so than you seem to think baiting will.

Quote:

Scammers are easy to track down and catch if the government would spend money to do it.

Easy? So, you can identify exactly what dude was in what chair in a public web cafe that serves a few dozen scammers a day half a world away? Conclusively? Even without security cameras or individualized logins that at least identify the account that logged into the computer? And you can identify who picked up a cash transfer half a world away from where it was "sent" even though he had a fake ID with a fake name, or just gave the clerk five bucks to look the other way on the ID requirement?

And, you, as a taxpayer, would be happy with your local law enforcement blowing a few million extra a year in extra equipment, employees, technical expertise so they have a hope of handling the investigations? When maybe all they would net is, if they're lucky, a dozen convictions of some small-timers who couldn't afford the bribes?

And that's being optimistic about how cooperative the foreign authorities would be. Even if God almighty fingers the perp, if the local authorities tell you and your foreign victim to take a long walk off a short pier, there will be no arrest.

Quote:

Sending one of them 1000 return mails for a start. What's he going to do?

All mailbombing does is slow down the internet for the rest of us, mostly. And as a nice bonus, it might also get you banned by your own ISP. If the lad's with a decent provider, chances are good it's going to get marked spam and filtered out for him, anyway. Oh, and what good would it do if you mailbombed one of the rare lads that's actually being investigated by law enforcement? That just gives the poor, already overworked investigator a few thousand extra messages to filter through and log into evidence.

I also don't actively bait much, these days. I prefer the education/advising after the fact, ugly as it is at times, and I don't have much time to spare. Baiting and reading here taught me how scamming works, though, and hopefully it's made me better at the other method of hitting scammers where it hurts. And by that, I mean educating a victim before they lose money or at least minimizing the damage. I make a point to keep visiting so I can keep learning. Scammers constantly change and adapt, so we try to keep up.

Even baiting that doesn't directly lead to an arrest can save a victim. One reported scammer bank account that gets closed in the middle of a scam might be enough to rouse the suspicions of a victim currently on the hook.

If traditional baiting is not your thing, there's also shutting down fake bank sites. It takes a bit of time, research and training on how to write a good abuse report, but we have a forum dedicated to that and some people mentor bank killers. And that approach definitely hits the scammers in the wallet. They may spend a few hundred bucks paying a web designer and getting the site in place and hosted, and you can write up a nice abuse report in 30 minutes or so that yanks the rug out from under them and may tip off any victims they point to the now-defunct domain. And, as pointed out, there's also the phone lad forum, where shutting down the email account actually DOES make the scammer work harder, reseeding his new email address.

I definitely understand the frustration, but it would likely be better if you would channel that frustration into something that actually has an effect of some sort and/or doesn't also have the capacity to get you into trouble, a la mailbombing. Mass insult baits would give you the satisfaction of blowing off steam without any of that fussy details stuff that the other types of baiting require. If that's where you want to concentrate your efforts, that's your decision, but there are other methods that generally give you a lot more bang for your buck.

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:36 am

great post, mrsbean.

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:55 am

Yes, it was,

I would have said that except I didn't have the time for such a long post Laughing

Well done, I do hope your informative and educational post is not lost on the OP or others who seek to do similiar activities to stop the lads by mid next week Wink

@ MrsBean,
I have read a few very good posts by you on similiar subjects, have you ever considered writing a sticky or uni class on the subject?

Trophy Videos · Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:59 am

@LeSabre101 - I firmly believe that anyone who committed enough to try to hurt and disrupt these scammers will find a place somewhere in this site. We all have our special gifts and talents for helping in the group effort. Some of us bait lovelads, some just straight bait them to death to waste their time and money, others send them on lavish vacations. Our goal here is to hit them anywhere and everywhere we can by wasting their time and money and closing their websites and accounts. Arrests are extremely rare, and usually only occur if bank accounts can be traced, or the baiter happens to know an LEO and can get the scammer to them.
I think you should contact Pastor Frank and take him up on his offer. Maybe he can help you direct your energies to where your talents will be helpful and enjoyable for you here. After all, you have to like and enjoy what you do around here.
For instance, I tried bank killing early on, and I didn't get any thrill out of it. It was just too tedious for me, so I moved on. But I know lots of people here that love it. That's great. We need those kind of people here. There is a baiter here that doen't post much, but he really loves chasing down fake lottery websites and shutting them down. He's probably shut down hundreds of them by now. He sometimes shuts them down as soon as they go up. I know it must annoy the lads to no end. Smile

Give yourself a chance and try out a few things around here, and PM Pastor Frank.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 04 Jun 2008 Posts: 73

@Lesabre101: Can I have your avatar then?

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