Fraud Doesn't Have A Nationality

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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:34 am

My friend a US based Nigerian blogger had this article on his blog:

http://www.africanloft.com/scams-and-419-fraud-isnt-a-nigerian-thingwall-street-brokers-do-it-too/

It's not to make light of 419 scamming, but to put it in perspective.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 16 Mar 2008 Posts: 35

If innocent Nigerians are concerned about their ability to transact business globally then they should make 419 culturally unacceptable in their country. In the same way that Madoff's alleged behaviour is culturally unacceptable to the Western world.

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:59 am

I want to read that Obi Jolu was arrested on suspition of internet fraud along with his 50,000 friends Smile

Only then can we compare Scammers to people who commit fraud Wink

Edit: Scammers I think my S button only works sometimes

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:30 am

Quote:

Fraud Doesn't Have A Nationality

carlosq wrote:

then they should make 419 culturally unacceptable.

I couldn't agree more with these two statements.

Wannabe Baiter Joined: 30 Jun 2007 Posts: 82

Thanks Rudo2050,scams and fraud has a far broader to me personally,if you deliberately underperform in your job, thats fraud, if you are lazy and careless with your responsibilties, its a fraud.If you overpaid or rewarded excessively, you should be shot.

No one is a saint, fraud is fraud,Madof and Adamu are in the same flock.separating innocents from the rewards of their hardwork.

By the way 2050 is same as 2007 on the Thai calendar.

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:37 pm

The assertion that not all fraud is committed by Nigerians is certainly true. It's a bit like comparing apples and elephants, though. There are lots of different flavors of "fraud".

Fraud has a much broader definition than, say, a specific term like "advance fee fraud" or "pyramid scheme". Specific types of crimes flourish in the environments that encourage them best. China makes a wonderful base for counterfeiters and non-delivery scammers preying on people who want to buy cheap electronics/designer shoes and clothes and don't even know what "due diligence" means. Mainly because of the banking regulations being loose on personal bank accounts and the roadblocks to filing a criminal report.

Corporate and securities fraud tends to happen in Europe and America where there are loopholes in regulations and "corporate raiders/finance whizkids" are respected and people tend to believe that all their investments are "insured from loss". Classic advance fee fraud tends to originate from West Africa, largely for historical and cultural reasons. The numbers, presumably, are higher for Nigeria primarily because they have a bigger population, honest and dishonest. And unfortunately for the honest, they have few options available for dealing with others that helps distinguish them from the dishonest. (For example, it's near impossible, I understand, to get a credit card in Nigeria that will be accepted by foreign businesses.) At least with Chinese businesses, I can warn people that personal bank accounts are more suspect than corporate ones.

None of the above means that any of these countries are particularly apt to breed fraudsters, just that people who are willing to steal will adapt to their environment. China also does little to shut down poor quality counterfeiters and non-delivery scammers, and it definitely has a negative effect on the way they are viewed in some areas And with the corporate and banking scandals of the last few years, that's affected the way outsiders (and plenty of citizens) view the States.

I certainly wouldn't disagree that there's plenty of corruption and dishonesty to go around. Thieves are thieves, no matter where they are or how little/much they may steal. I'm just as angry about the fact that Madoff is facing so little jail time (20 years) and will probably spend what little time he does get sitting in a Club Med jail as I am that scammers in certain countries not only operate in the open but brag about their success.

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:04 pm

An article linked on that same page.

Quote:

The final straw was Oprah Winfrey’s show “What the New Scam Artists Don’t Want You to Know”. The show included the 20/20 host talking about their 419 busts and it included a woman who was supposedly a “victim” of 419 scam. Oprah depicted the woman as an innocent person who was scammed in the process of helping a poor man all the way in Nigeria that needed surgery. The woman was so taken by the “poor man” that she ended sending him $50,000 and maxed her credit.

Stop! My issue with all of this is I do not think that people who were swindled by these 419ers are really victims? In fact, most people who have fallen for these fraudulent gimmicks are just downright GREEDY. I say most because I acknowledge that there are some 419 tricks that do not promise their recipient money rewards.

Bad argument that disproves itself by the example quoted.

Let's say for argument that the point is true. Fantastic - then baiters need no other justiification. Scammers are equally greedy and deserve what they get from baiters.

I don't hold that view, but anyone who does, can't criticise baiters for what they do. We rely on the greed of the scammer, and with this argument, that justifies everything.

I don't see why Madoff got bail at all but my attitude to scammers is not related to skin colour. I recently took on some white skinned UK scammers head on at personal risk, but that wasn't a 419 scam so I took it off forum.

In my days of international banking any cheque or commercial document with the word 'Nigeria' in it was either a fraud or counterfeit. I never saw an exception to that rule.

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