My uncle's mail order bride scam...

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Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:55 am

My unlce is twice divorced from his wife of 20 years, and for the past 5 years he has been involved in this "mail order bride" scams. I believe they are scams, but am wondering how they work..my uncle was introduced to the first "wifey" Khanoakporn (YES that is her name),or Gunny, as we affectionately called her. He went to BANGKOK a couple times in 02 , met her and her family and began the process to marry her. He married her in BANGKOK (of course, the marriage certificate is in Thai) in 03 or 04, but for some reason she never was able to get a "visa" or"greencard" or any type of"pass" to the United States...not even to visit...all the while he pays a monthly "fee" to her or the company who set them up...well, he got sick of her crap about 2 years ago...but then was introduced to "Leah" who lives in some country in Vietnam..Laos maybe?? well anyways, "Leah" is a 41 y/o virgin, etc, etc, and he married her...still she cannot get a passport, visa, etc, ironically just like Gunny! And he still is paying a monthly fee, or "spousal support" as he calls it! And there is always some reason why she cannot come over...is anyone familiar with this type of scam? Mind you, he actually sees these "women" face to face, visits for a few weeks,etc but I am wondering how many "suitors" or "husbands" these ladies actually have. Please advise if anyone is familiar with this type of Mail Order Bride Scam...

Elite Baiter Joined: 11 Jul 2007 Posts: 1979

Hi Faerie, welcome.

I can't advise you but I can agree it sure sounds scammy. If he's gone to actually meet these women face to face and he doesn't believe they're marrying other men too, then it's probably not a scam on the scale the romance scammers are here.

So what's up with this guy that he can't find a woman on his own turf?

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:44 am

Well, my uncle is pushing 60 and was married for 20 years to a woman who was bi-polar, divorced her twice...he believes American women "don't work hard enough" ...lol....I am a mom w/ 2 kids and have worked 2 jobs at once plus college...but I think he really wants to find love, except is looking in all the right places...it is just fishy how there is always some "red tape" when it comes time for the "brides" to come over to the US...

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:45 am

oops, taht was love in all the WRONG Places...my bad

Elite Baiter Joined: 11 Jul 2007 Posts: 1979

LOL, so he thinks a woman peddling herself on the internet is working hard? I hate to dis your uncle but I think he's looking for a woman desperate enough to indenture herself to him.

You smell a scam and I smell a scam, but he doesn't want to. How's that old saying go? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. This sounds like one he's going to have to figure out the hard way.

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:27 pm

I have what is probably a really stupid question. Did he have to divorce mail order wife #1 in before marrying mail order wife #2?? Sure sounds like a scam to me.

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:20 am

Sounds like a scam to me... I wonder how many men each has "married" and collects "spousal support " from...and who her real boyfriend is...

you can get a visitor's visa fairly easily by just saying your friend is inviting you...I imagine it goes even faster if you say "wife"...that allows the person into the US for 6 months out of the year...

if it were in thai or vietnamese and he couldn't read the "marriage certificate" it may not have been one at all...I don't know about how likely he'd be prosecuted for bigamy if one of the women did come over & call the police...but I doubt a "spousal support" woman would be easy to find if he wanted to divorce her...

legally I'd consult a lawyer & get a divorce for her not living with him - most states that is 18 month wait from the time they stopped living together...
It's about 800$ and would definitely put him in the clear of any illegality

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:08 am

It screams scam to me, Pinays scam differently to most other romance scammers, their scam is closer to begging, that will be no comfort to your uncle as at the end of the day he is paying for goods he can not use.

It sounds like he has had a rough trott with women in his life but if he insists on finding love in another country he will continue his run of bad luck as there are many people out there using love to scam innocent people of their money.

If you could provide us with some details or perhaps better still, visit Scamwarners and provide the details, they will be able to look into it for him, the are some very experienced people not too far away who can do all kinds of things to find out how legitimate these girls are.

Things we could use are:
the email address
full name used
pictures
early emails
headers
phone numbers

If you can get me any of that I will personally pass the information onto Ralph from Scamwarners and ask him to look into it, he owes me a few favours so I can get him to look at it quite quickly for you Wink

While Ralph is investigating I will see if I can get any other proof by emailing the young lady concerned, dont worry, it will not look like it has anything to do with your uncle.

Meanwhile, the romance sticky has some useful information, in particular take a look at the Pinay section as it sounds like that is what he has found

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:15 am

It sounds like a well worked Pro Dater type scam. Very interesting.
I suspect this might seen again soon.

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:29 pm

Whether or not the marriages are legal, or not, needs to be determined.

Many ladies in SE Asia seek an older man to marry for financial support.
Many state openly they have no desire to leave the country, the man should be willing to move there.

There are abuses, scams, as such, but it happens there.

Visitor visas for ladies from SE Asia to the US are next to impossible to get for people who are not somewhat affluent, and have a good job or home to go back to the home country to. (Reason to not vanish in the US)

If your father married these women, while visiting them, then he is obligated to support them!

He should have used a 'K1' visa process, which filters out some fraudulent ladies, and means they don't marry until the lady gets a visa,
(If she qualifies) and arrives in the US. IF she comes and they don't marry, she has to leave the US within 90 days.

The K1 process also involves varying degrees of verification the relationship is real. (depending on consulate)

If he is really interested in getting the current lady to the US, he needs to find out why she was denied a visa.
Did he use an immigration lawyer? If not, he may need to use one now.

If her denial was solely a matter of some consulate jerk having a bad day, (it happens) he may need to contact his congressperson.

Slap him in the face and tell him to NOT MARRY THESE LADIES when he meets them, and do the K1 process, instead.

It may fail...but you are not stuck with a wife you may need to support in some far away, steamy city.

He may get some help at http://www.visajourney.com

This may not be a scam, just an opportunist.

It's not a 'mail order bride' scam since your uncle met these ladies in person.....(I assume from what you wrote.)

Not quite a Newb Joined: 09 Oct 2008 Posts: 70

Am I right begging and scams are a fine line apart? I have a couple that getting married seems to be their prime issue and goal,..

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:18 am

I suggest giving your Uncle a copy of the book Private Dancer by Stephan Leather. While it is written as a fictional story , the story is close enough to reality for it to be recommended as manditory reading for any foreign man coming to Thailand.

While your Uncle's wife ( wives ? ) may not be professional scammers , they are certainly not about to turn down a free meal ticket. And the odds of them having a second , legal husband of their own nationality are astronomical.

Best of luck with the situation.

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:06 pm

Trickster, most of the current 'begging' comes from the Philippines, West Africans do a bit, too. The west africans will be men, posing as women.
The filipinas are usually women, and often show a real face on cam.
Many of these girls LIE about the reason they need the money, and we've documented that pretty often.

There is a fine line, and a lot of gray areas.

What works best is to have multiple baiters work the 'beggar'.

She'll tell one she needs money because her father is in the hospital, an hour later she tells another baiter she needs money because her MOTHER is in the hospital.

We had one who said her house burned down, but magically kept appearing on cam from the same house.

One will claim to be an 'education major' in college to one baiter, then a 'computer major' an hour later to a different person.

THEN......you have the 'single, no kids' girl who turns out to be married to a local guy, with a handful of kids, who she is supporting via her computer activity!

The filipinas love the internet, and often you can find real life profiles and sites about them with a little work.

It's fun to dig a bit and find the 'friendster' or myspace site of a pinay, that shows her happily posing with her BF or husband and kids, after you've just chatted with her and she is 'in love', single, horny, and ready to 'do you', but....OH NO, I have a problem, I don't have money for the internet to talk to you!

Not quite a Newb Joined: 09 Oct 2008 Posts: 70

Yeah I have run across a few students needing money for final exams and such but they send some rather interesting pictures which I plan on using for a female persona later on down the road...
Is this a good idea to use their pics or not?

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:17 am

If they're just sending pics, and the pics aren't of a real face of the girl you've seen on cam, I don't think they have much value...or are of any use in baiting, any more than any other stolen pic.

Since the filipinas will often show a real face on cam, the real face is the real value. Post that pic (from the webcam) with a scam report and they start squirming.

FWIW, most of the viewership of pinay antiscam posts is from the Phils!
Other filipinas are reading or watching the videos. Sometimes they will tip off the scammer they've been outted.
Still, the videos are being viewed in the US, UK, by potential victims.

If the filipina hasn't shown a face, and sent interesting pics, they're probably stolen from somewhere.

If the pics are attractive or sexy, they aren't much use in baiting, unless you are going after perverts or real people!
The only bait you need with real scammers is what they will think is a warm body online, from a country where they assume the person can cough up some $$ at will.

Wink

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