Australian newspaper article

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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:11 pm

Who managed to get a whole village to pose with arse bandit signs??? Legendary effort!!!

I've looked but cant find the link. There was a story 2 days ago in the Melbourne Herald Sun about a baby products shop that was scammed out of tens of thousands of dollars by a Nigerian advance shipping scam. Pretty obvious scam, but not to the husband and wife team running the shop.

I agree with the other comments, Emma seems very concerned about protecting the very same people who would strip her of everything she has given 1/2 a chance. If she can arrange for the global internet fraud community to go easy on victims, then I will happily agree to go easy on Lads. Until then bring on the trophies.

Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:51 pm

I sent her some fan mail, it took me 2 minutes on Eater to find 3 examples of heartless bastards at work. shame Emma hasn't got that long to do research.

Quote:

Hello, Geeky Cohort here.

While I think you're hot, you got my back up with your sympathy for the 419 scammers.
I'll treat them more humanely when they stop crap like this:

Quote:

This is the reply to your mail, we are so sorry to herring about you having breast cancer, but we went to let know that we will help you by asking you to pay us$ 1,550 ,because of your problem but you will promise us that as soon as you receive your boxes you will sent back the balance to us ,so use the same information to send the us$1,550, that is what we can do for you.

Quote:

My dear now that you lost your mother, you needed this fund I will advise you to urgently send the fee through western union tomorrow morning to enable me program your fund before I will go back to Ghana, because arrive in Nigeria last week.

Quote:

Once this is done, you shall make arrangements with them and the funds would be transferred to your location. I beg of you to deal with me honestly and render me your assistance to the fullest of your capacity. You would be helping a dying man. Most importantly you would be touching the lives of a huge number of people. I hope I would be able to count on you as my happiness rest in your shoulder and please you have to be close your computer for fluent interaction between us. My bones are slowly cleaving to my skin. I hope to hear from you as soon as possible. May God continue to bless you and your family Warmest Regards,

Rees Vivian Paul

Have a nice day

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:59 am

I also read the Melbourne Herald Sun about the baby products shop that was scammed out of tens of thousands of dollars by a Nigerian advance shipping scam, it seems they got some stuff back.

Just goes to show you how folks can get caught, but then again they did not check out the two credit cards they were given properly

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:15 pm

In a sentence. Those who can - do, those who can't - write crap.

To elaborate - write regurgitated banal superficial crap.

Send her back to doing the cartoons.

Trophy Videos · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:14 am

I guess Emma hasn't showed yet. Too bad. I think she would like Nurse Nasty's new sporty avatar. Laughing

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:12 am

That Shiver's a problem. I remember the name from somewhere though. Wink

Nice plug for us though!

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:59 pm

Tommo Shanter wrote:

I do like the digilante quote though.

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=digilante
"Internet-based crime-fighter, above or not necessarily in conjunction with the law.
419eater.com is a good example of a "digilante" "

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:02 pm

I think Emma, and most other people for that matter, see 419 as spam. An inconvenience akin to junk mail, and that's it. Well yes, to her, us and most people on the net, that's all it is. A pathetic attempt at a con job that none of us would dream of taking seriously, and therefore our retribution for such a minor crime seems really harsh.

But then she goes on to quote figures that prove some people do in fact fall victim to these scams.....(Note to Emma: This is when you should have stopped to consider that not everyone who uses the internet is as clever as you are, and that many lives have been ruined and even ended because of this minor crime.)

As for homophobia, the reason why we get the lads to hold up signs advertising their gayness is because they are more often than not very homophobic, and this seems like a suitable way to mock their petty prejudices.

Racists we are not, I really object to that one. I'm white, my partner is of Pakistani origin and some of our closest friends are black. Baiters don't deliberately target Nigerians, they target us, we just play along with whoever tries their luck.

I really don't think Emma is anti-baiter, she's just going through the stage we all went through, of asking "is it OK to do mean things to people?" That's a normal thing for people with a conscience to do. Maybe when she's given it a little more thought, she could write a follow up piece from a sightly more informed perspective.

Here's a little example to help her make up her mind.

Quote:

HELLO,
GOOD DAY TO YOU FATHER BRAIN , FATHER JACKS AND YOU BETTY, IT IS ME BOBBY SMITH FROM Bottle, LIVERPOOL...But doing missionary WORK here in PART of west Arica, nigeria. WE thank GOD for what GOD has been doing in our midst, and we are HAPPY. well a 5 year old girl who is suffering from a HEART PROBLEM which i attached her photo to this message, she is with us here, and her MOM AND DAD are unbelievers, this problem started not quite long and we were trying to bring the parent closer to GOD, but they didn't yield, moreover we tried every other means but we are sure that they will be good vessels for GOD.. but we realised that the man was SAD because of the little CHILD, so we picked up the child and promised to do everything possible to help her out of the problem... the operation fee will cost $2,355 USD. and we are hoping that you will help us that will that because most of the money we have, we've used it in buying food stuffs, material need and other important things for our CHILDREN in the charity MISSION. we are hoping and believing that you will HELP US OUT WITH THIS... I already discussed this with my other colleague and they are happy about it THAT YOU WILL HELP US OUT and they are PRAYING AND HOPING THAT GOD WILL HELP YOU TO HELP US ... THANKS AND I AM PRAYING THAT THE LORD GOD WILL SEE YOU THROUGH IN YOUR CHARITY WORK, GOD WILL BLESS YOU MIGHTILY, BELOW IS OUR DETAILS WHICH YOU WILL need to send the money to VIA WESTERN UNION

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 08 Nov 2008 Posts: 7

Very insightful post, Roger the cabin boy.

Dear Emma might also be shocked at all these "sexist" avatars used on the forum...

At any rate "dark prince of baiting" seems like a nice custom tag.

Nurse Nasty: That is a pretty tragic avatar you've gotten yourself, and so soon after switching from your first one. Even more so because I didn't realize what image you used at first, yet laughed my baiting buttocks off! Smile

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:00 am

Quote:

Dear Emma might also be shocked at all these "sexist" avatars used on the forum

Noun 1. sexist - a man with a chauvinistic belief in the inferiority of women
male chauvinist
antifeminist - someone who does not believe in the social or economic or political equality of men and women
Adj. 1. sexist - discriminatory on the basis of sex (usually said of men's attitude toward women)
discriminatory, prejudiced - being biased or having a belief or attitude formed beforehand; "a prejudiced judge"

I'm pleased I haven't fallen into that category. There's a really sexist pic of a squirrel in here at times.

It was just a bit of newspaper filler, ok, she could have done more research, which I'm sure has been poiinted out to her by most of us in this thread already. Hopefully she will be doing a follow up article soon, with a bit more information instead of one sided lad hugging waffle.

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:31 am

She wrote a book called In Bed With. Laughing

To be published by Penguin. Wink

This is from her own webpage.

Quote:

Read about the year Emma Tom was convinced she had pagan-induced leprosy in Voices of Disbelief, an anthology of essays on atheism edited by Russell Blackford and Udo Schuklenk.

I am very tempted to use one of these images as my avatar. If anyone puts me up to it I will.
Just to let Emma know- I personally have zero tolerance for racist activity of any sort and have not been a master baiter for almost two years. Laughing

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:00 am

@Connie - I'm putting you up to it - use the one with big teeth Laughing

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:07 am

Ah crap.

I was going to crop the blindfolded one. Oh well, I said I would. Next question. Should I email her for permission after the fact? Laughing

Edit: I have a really bad feeling about this.
<-------------------
If anyone asks, including Emma, I will reinstate my sword yielding kitty avatar.

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:14 am

<----- I've been wearing her face for days now. It's on the internet. It's public. Not much she can do about it.

I think we've given her enough rubbish about her poorly written article. As long as we keep giving her facts, rather than hunt down her every published article and comment on it. It's all good.

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:26 am

NN change the hair to blonde and put a bottle of vodka some were and you will look like patsy from absolutley fabulus Wink

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:54 am

You mean like this?

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:05 am

you know, i think she looks kinda like danni minogue.

and yes, i'm pretty sure that's an insult Wink

so has anyone had any replies to their emails to her?

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:16 am

No reply here, but according to her website:

Quote:

At the moment, she is way too busy drawing on kitchens with her daughter to do anything that might make her any extra money, enhance her career or involve dressing in something other than a full body ugg boot.

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:42 pm

well i guess that's why she hasn't got time to do proper research, either.

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:42 pm

I am not often moved to write to a journalist but on this occasion I was, I was also moved to cc the email to [email protected] as well as a man called 'Editor-in-Chief: Chris Mitchell"

I basically broke down the article and replied to each section, it is long so lets hope they enjoy

Quote:

Hi Emma,
I was reading your article recently regarding 419scam, I am involved with a scam victim support group and regularly deal with victims of these horendus scams, as I have a fair bit of experience in this area as a regular volunteer I thought I may point out some things regarding your article.

Please see my comments below

THE WRY SIDE: Emma Tom | November 13, 2008
Article from: The Australian

A NEW generation of guerilla fighters is stalking the planet. These brutal underground warriors are vastly outnumbered by their enemies but still they battle on, armed only with their wits, their supportive websites and their ability to make Nigerians they've never met photograph themselves with "sheep shagger" signs and toilet seats on their heads.

At this point I will point out that in order to learn about the scams I offer free advice about, it is very important that I actually learnt about the scams and the scammers I was dealing with, the best way to do that is to engage in email with them, by pretending to be another potential victim, I was able to learn about them, I was also able to post their details on the internet for others to see which acts as a warning to those who use google to search on the person they are involved with, this fact alone has saved many victims, we see them stop by our sites often and thank us for saving them from being scammed, what I mostly did with baiting was straight baiting that you talk about.

This hardly sounds to me like guerilla warfare but it does make a huge difference by educating the potential victims while wasting the time of the scammer.

Wasting the time of the scammer brings me to another point, the more time I can keep him occupied, the less time he has to scam real people and the less money he has to pay for the internet cafe time so it stands to reason that wasting their time and resources is a valuable prize for scambaiters. Having your scammer travel great distances to get the money they think they are stealing from you waste loads of their time and costs them a fortune, thus keeping them from being able to scam many people, some scammers have been effectively put out of business for long peroiods of time because of this, again, keeping them from being able to scam real people.

One final point on your opening line is that scammers come from all over the world and certainly not only from Nigeria, I have baited scammers based in Russia, the Ukraine, China, the Philipinnes, The UK, Spain, Canada, The US,, Camaroon, Benin, South Africa, Ghana, Senegal, one from Australia and yes, as well as those from Nigeria,

They are the scam-baiters and their ruthless modus operandi reveals how easily the good fight can become an ugly one.

You say it's an ugly fight, scammers cause great misery to many people, they deliberately target those who are most likely to pay them, that is their only criteria, they have preferences to lower income, the elderly and the less-abled, they will seek out the most vulnerable and if that means stealing the money a man needs to save his childs life, they will happily do it, think I am exagerating, think again, there have been many cases where I can show you proof of this, you say the fight is ugly and I have to agree, there is nothing at all glamorous about what scammers do to people.

You say baiters are ruthless because we get them to hold a sign for us, come on!

If you use email, chances are you've received one or two squillion poorly punctuated offers of abandoned fortunes that can be provided AT NO RISKS TO YOU TRUSTED GENTLEMANLADY WHATSOEVERS. All you have to do is send a substantial advance fee to a suspicious bank account and voila, Bob (well, actually Prince Fayad Bolkiah, eldest son of the former finance minister of Brunei) is your uncle.

Ok, this is good, you, in your own way have highlighted that these scams are going on, we appreciate any media coverage and thank you for that but you should keep in mind that many scammers are actually very good with english and there are a great range of different types of scams, too many to list them all now but if you would like to take a look at www.scamwarners.com you will find a range of different types of scams with many examples of each, romance,scams, cheque scams and hitman scams all targeted to a different audience

If you think no one would be silly enough to be sucked in by such shamfulness, you are sadly mistaken. In 2006, it was estimated that this sort of hustle was costing the British economy pound stg. 150 million a year. According to the US Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, unwitting victims have even been kidnapped and murdered.

Again, thank you for highlighting how prevailant these scams are but I do question who you are refering to in regards to the "shamefulness" victims of scam coming forward and telling their stories goes a long way to preventing others from being scammed, victims being too ashamed to talk about what has happened to them prevent many people from hearing about it.

I also note that you have quoted figures from the UK and the US and wonder why you would not quote "The Australian" (after all that is the name of the paper you write for) statistics, the ACCC is the Australian department that deals with online fraud and the ymay be able to give you some accurate and recent figures if you were to ask.

Enter the digilante.

According to the Urban Dictionary,
"Internet-based crime-fighter, above or not neccessarily in conjunction with the law.
419eater.com is a good example of a "digilante"

It appears the Urban dictionary shares that view
Beginner or "straight baiters" usually just waste scammers' time by engaging in long and surreal correspondences in which money is promised but never materialises.
One baiter featured on the www.scamorama.com website chats at length with 22-year-old Queen Amina from the Congo who, as is so often the case these days, is at a complete loss about what to do with her $US10.5 million inheritance. Using the nom de scam Lady Fapina Tyuksar (apparently this almost means something rude in Hungarian), the scam-baiter eventually directs Amina's "barrister" to her receptionist, Donna Nytrocks, whose number is actually an S&M phone sex hotline.

At 419 Eater, there is strict rules about engaging an "Innocent Third Party", for that reason it is certainly not acceptable for a baiter to have his scammer phone a sex hotline, as it is for having them call the pizza shop or any other person who is not involved in the scam

The correspondence survives this outrageous development but tails off shortly after Lady Tyuksar sends a photo of herself that bears an uncanny resemblance to Lwaxana Troi, Daughter of the Fifth House, Holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx and Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed from Star Trek.
Straight-baiters rarely get any nastier than childish sneering in their final "ha ha, I tricked you" message. But elite practitioners (or master baiters, as they like to call themselves) treat scam-baiting as an out and out blood sport.

Firstly, in regards to your comment, "childish sneering in their final "ha ha, I tricked you" message" We actually much prefer not to ever tell them they have been baited, this only educates them and makes them better scammers, see, there is another thing we are big on encouraging, "DO NOT teach your scammer anything to make him a better scammer" by not knowing if they are communicating with a baiter or a victim, they sometimes actually drop other victims thinking they are baiters.

As for it being childish, yes, telling the scammer he has been scammed is childish and certainly not something we encourage

They boast of "safaris" (trips they've tricked scammers into making to remote banks to collect nonexistent advance fees) and "trophies" (photos scammers take of themselves doing stupid things or holding obscene signs in desperate attempts to prove their credentials).

To right we boast of safaris and trophy pictures, these things have wasted the scammers time and resources and will also make the scammer more suspicious of any new person they meet online

English computer engineer Shiver, the founder of www.419eater.com, is the dark prince of baiting. He has duped scammers into writing out Harry Potter books by hand, carving computers from wood and falling in love with him pretending to be Gillian Anderson from The X Files. Apparently he and his geeky cohorts have also succeeded in getting more than 50 scammers arrested.

I figured Shiver would prefer to defend himself here

Geeky cohorts? you would be surprised what many of us do outside scanbaiting and scan victim support, we are normal everyday people who have seen an oportunity to help people and taken it, if it is geeky to help strangers then so be it, I am a "geeky cohort", however I would think the dictionary would have a different word for what I do.

As for the arrested scammers, again, being arrested will turn the odd few away from scamming and yes, 419 Eater members are very proud to be able to achieve that

The trophy room for contributors to Berry's site includes photos of scammers in suggestive poses and bearing signs with slogans such as "I love cocky sucky". Most of the subjects are black, grim-looking and situated in dusty village tableaus that are a far cry from the spectacular fortunes discussed in their emails. One woman seems to be missing an eye.

There are also many photos of Russians, Ukranians and Philipinos, also take another look and note that many of them are certainly not poor villagers

This, of course, is where scam-baiting starts to look crass, cold-blooded and possibly even homophobic and racist.

I dont know how you arose at that conclusion, Scammers are heartless thieves yet you call scambaiters cold-blooded, many scambaiters are homosexual and of various race, race, religion and sexual preference is something most scambaiters could not care less about, I have helped victims from a very wide background and thiose things are certainly not considered, what is considered is that hey are a scammer, what you are refering to is the African scammers prejudice which causes them much more embarrasment for being refered to as gay, as for race, I am equally happy to waste the time of a scammer from any background, it just so happens that most scammers are African males.

"The scam-baiters seem almost like a spontaneous evolutionary response to a threatening predatory species ... the T cells of the internet's immune system," Ron Rosenbaum writes in The Atlantic. But "what started out as a good-natured form of rough justice has become, in some respects, a theatre of cruelty".

I am sure you will find a wide and varied range of quotes from people in regards to scambaiting, why you chose to quote that one shows your own prejudice

It's an intriguing, quintessentially 21st-century ethical dilemma that brings to mind far more serious war-related debates about ends, means and justifications.

Ethics, ethics is something regularly discussed on various baiting sites, where do or should we draw the line, each baiter will draw that line somewhere that suits themselves, scammers on the other hand have no ethics, the only important thing is to prey to god for a good maga

Perhaps, like non-cyber soldiers, spam-baiters should agree to treat their PoWs more humanely.

Interesting opinion which appears to be based on your own ideas of what scambaiting is about, I am sure that if you did some more research you would see things much more clearly

Persuading Prince Joe Eboh of the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation to convert to the Order of the Red Breast and paint a red No9 over his nipple is one thing. But conning what looks like an entire village into posing with "arse bandit" signs seems to be taking things an Abu Ghraib too far.

An entire village who the scammer has most likely paid money to to pose for such photos now has money to feed their families, the scammer on the other hand will have wasted a lot of time and resources, it certainly has not crossed my ethical boundary but then, I have not had the opportunity to have a scammer do this for me.

Do you realise that many communities are heavily supported by income derived from scamming, it is fact you can easily verify.

I hope one day you will get the opportunity to do a follow up on your article and when you do I will be happy to show you the truth about scammers and scambaiting, as well as the scam victim support that so many scambaiters are also involved in, I can show you real cases where people have lost money and had their lives ruined by scammers and perhaps then you will understand why we do what we do.

I would very much appreciate your reply
Regards
one of my many names Wink

I got an autoreply from the letters addie

Quote:

This is to acknowledge that your letter to the editor has been received. If you haven't already done so, please include a contact telephone number and home address. Letters sent as an attachment cannot be processed and will need to be resent in the body of the email. Your contribution is much appreciated.
Best regards,
Letters Editor,
The Australian

Like that's going to happen

Now, lets see if I can get a reply Laughing

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:14 pm

well said murry clapping

standing

that was a good reply to emma .Or was that a enama reply Wink

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:00 pm

Murry, excellently put!

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:41 pm

I personally think the avatar NN sports is kind of hot. Connie's... not so much.

She seems pleasant enough. I am quite convinced that if she spent 15 minutes with me she would totally dig me. So, Emma, if you are reading this, what do you say we have a nice chat. Me thinks you would be taken in by my charm. Don't mind what these other Eater ladies say about me, it's all a big lie.

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