Need help. Scam victim

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 5

Hi there!

I became a victim last week (I'm stupid, stupid, stupid!!! Mad

)
This week ATM ate my debit card. What should I do now? I mean, what should I do with the bank? I suppose, I have to give all the money back. But how can I do that if I don't have any money. Is there a way to delay the payment or not to pay at all ?

I've got problems with police as well. Court will be on 21st of November. I'm charged for "possession of fraudulent checks" - 329 of Proceeds of crime act 2002. What can be consequencies? How can I prove that I'm a victim, not a criminal?

P.s. : I'm in UK. My bank is LLoydsTSB
P.s.s : I'm a victim of travelcheck fraud.

Thanks in advance
Deniss

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:54 pm

Hi dinja.

Deniss? And you're in the UK?

It's normally spelt "Dennis", bobo.

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jan 2007 Posts: 2922

Regarding the ATM card-could it just be a co-incidence, ie you kept asking for money and they took your card-rather than they found out in a week?

Go see a solicitor-most give free 30 minute consultations (see the yellow pages) also if you have no money/limited income see if you can get legal aid.

As for the bank-you need to speak to them get copies of all emails from the scammer and you (including headers**) any other information you have-packages, tracking numbers etc etc and ask to speak to the manager. Chances are you may have to pay the money back-but they should be reasonable and arrange a schedule to do this.

If it was me (and none of this advice should be taken in a legally way) i'd start looking for a solicitor that gives 30 min free consultation and does legal aid (saves having to look twice) whilst gathering and printing any evidence. Arrange an appointment with the bank for after you have spoken to the solicitor.

Hope this helps.

** Here's how to find a header http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11462

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7103 Location: Yes

Dinja -- I am sorry to hear about your being scammed. It sounds like you passed a bad check? We would need more information than what you have provided.

That said, we are a baiting site and as such, are not really equipped for victim issues (not to say we aren't sympathetic). Our sister site, Scamwarners.com, has more information that may be helpful to you.

Moreover, it sounds like speaking with a lawyer will be much more helpful to you than seeking advice from this board.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:55 pm

Hi dinja,

I'm sorry to hear you got scammed. Your best course of action is to be as honest and cooperative with the bank and authorities as you can. Print out all of the emails you have and bring any other evidence you can when you speak to them.

You should also check out www.fraudaid.org. They are set up to help people such as yourself.

Edit to add: JMR's advice is good. You should probably speak to a lawyer before talking to anyone.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 5

Thank you for advice.

1) Deniss is mine name in my country. I'm not British.

2) I'm not sure about the ATM, but I think it;s not a co-incidence. What I did is just checked my balance and it ate my card. PIN-code was correct

3) I've arranged an appointment with a solicitor on Monday, but the appointment will be next Tuesday only. But I think it's better to solve problems with the bank as soon as possible.
I think I will be able to get legal aid, because I don't have any income right now. I'm a student.

4) I've provided my e-mail conversation with the scammer to the police, gave them my mobile phone with text messages from him.

5) I've passed a bad check, but I'm not sure how much do I owe to the bank. My Internet Bank states that I've managed to cash only 4000$, but I cashed 5500 $ (stupid Mad

)

Thanks for help and links provided!

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:20 pm

A Balkan name.

Ok. Another link for you. www.scamwarners.com.

Sign up on the forum over there and go to the Personal Account of Scams section.

And like someone here said, you need to get legal advice as soon as possible. If you can't afford it, go immediately to your local Citizen's Advice Bureau. There should be a number for them in your local telephone directory. They'll give you free advice about your legal options. You could also try to contact your own country's embassy or consulate and see what they can do for you.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:25 pm

Did you send money to the scammer, or are you only on the hook for depositing a bad check? Was it an overpayment scam? A job scam?

Again, check out fraudaid.org. They don't charge for their services as far as I know.

Elite Baiter Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 1407

The bank MAY have eaten the ATM card if the account has been identified as engaging in fraudulent activity. For example, if an ATM card is reported stolen to a bank, the bank MAY have an ability to "eat" a card that is inserted into a machine to further prohibit use.

Also, as stated, find a lawyer, print/keep all copies of email correspondance, and don't try to evade the authorities. You certainly are not the first victem, but if you try to hide you will make yourself appear a willing accomplice versus an innocent participant thinking you were engaged in a legitimate (albiet not the most plausible) business transaction.

Good luck!

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:31 pm

You are asking legal and financial advice, and it would be best to get that from your solicitor and Citizen's Advice..

I presume that the ATM machine 'ate' your card because the bank set it up to do that to prevent it being used any more due to the cheques being worthless (stolen or forged).

How you get along will depend on how these cheques came into your possession, and of course, even an innocent victim can appear guilty if the story sounds too unbelievable.

I am sorry to say this it's the problem victims face with handling forged or stolen cheques. What they do will often appear quite stupid to most people, though we understand that is quite common, especially to people who are short of cash.

Saying you got them from a stranger you don't know without some credible evidence of what happened, won't help you. It seems clear that the bank have already reached a conclusion, so you need to be as honest as possible.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:08 pm

@ Luckey.

I'm not sure if fraudaid can be of any help in this case.
To my knowledge, they only deal with US victims of scamming.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:15 pm

Are you sure?

Fraudaid's mission statement wrote:

Our Mission

Our mission is to provide support and guidance for fraud victims and their families worldwide; to serve as a deterrent to fraud everywhere; to spread easy-to-understand fraud awareness, recognition, and prevention education throughout the world community; and to develop efficient tools and support systems for public and private investigators, fraud examiners, fraud attorneys and defense attorneys.

Perhaps it's only the support and guidance bit that is worldwide. Still, that may be of value here.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 5

luckey wrote:

Did you send money to the scammer, or are you only on the hook for depositing a bad check?

Yes, I did send money.

I think fraudaid provides help to victims in UK

Code:

https://www.fraudaid.com/forms/arrested.asp
THIS FORM IS FOR FRAUD VICTIMS IN THE US, CANADA, UK, AND AUSTRALIA

But I don't know what kind of help. Anyway, I'll submit this form.

I think I'll go to my solicitor tommorow, despite the fact that I've got an appointment with him on Tuesday. And will go to the bank afterwards.

Thank you for help. I think I should start looking for a normal job to pay to the bank.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:30 pm

The crucial information is what is the transaction that led you to receive 329 'fraudulent' travellers cheques ?

That's a heck of a lot of cheques and money, and it appears you wouldn't normally be handling such large amounts. You are going to appear quite gullible, but that's better than making up any story that will confirm that you are lying. Better to appear foolish than guilty, but you will need to back up what you say with whatever evidence you have.

It's not the time to feel any sense of loyalty to the people who got you in this mess.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:36 pm

^^I think "329" refers to the section of the crime act he mentioned.

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jan 2007 Posts: 2922

@Dinja-just a thought, you may want to tell your fellow students and countrymen (once you've got the legal stuff sorted) about this kind of scam so they don't fall for it too.

Oh and guessing that money will be tight for a while you may want to borrow this from your library.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:54 pm

@ Dinja.

If you were corresponding with the scammer through email, take all copies of that correspondence with you to the solicitor. If you've got any envelopes or other false cheques around, take those with you as well.

Make sure you see the solicitor before you go to the bank. He'll hopefully give you advice on what to say when you get there.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 5

GomerPyle wrote:

The crucial information is what is the transaction that led you to receive 329 'fraudulent' travellers cheques ?

329 refers to a section in the crime act.
it's here:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2002/ukpga_20020029_en_22#pt7-pb1-l1g329

All the documents - Western Union receipts, envelopes - I gave to police officers, so I don't have anything now except e-mail conversation.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:08 pm

Thanks luckey - clearly my thinking is impaired without regular caffeine.

This is a useful link

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/proceeds_of_crime_money_laundering/#_Criminal_conduct

It sets out various defences that can be put forward, but the bad news is that if the cheque(s) were forged or stolen, they probably don't apply. That leaves your main defence being the mitigating factor that you were duped, and you're going to have to get any scrap of information or evidence you have to support this. If you seem evasive or appear to be withholding infomation the defence I mentioned will lose credibility.

Of course I'm no legal expert, and your solicitor is the only one who can properly guide you.

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jan 2007 Posts: 2922

Quote:

All the documents - Western Union receipts, envelopes - I gave to police officers, so I don't have anything now except e-mail conversation.

Get the emails (including the headers) printed out. Get a copy for the police, a copy for your solicitor, a copy for the bank and a copy for yourself. I'd also reccomend copying them onto a cd (or similar) and keeping that in a safe place.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:35 pm

Keep in mind that life will carry on when this is all over.

You'll still have problems with credit and getting a bank account, but there's nothing that will prevent you enjoying your life. So don't get sucked in too deep to all the bad things that have hit you all at once.

Most of us make at least one major bad decision in life and you just have to deal with it the best you can, so you can look forward to the good stuff in the future.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 5

Yes, being in a good mood is difficult now. Feel shame that I'm a Computing Science student and got scammed by somebody over e-mail. Before the incident I laughed at my relatives, that they reply to scammers, asking details and told them not to think about it. But in my case, being in need of money I just wanted to work. I just wanted to earn money. And I didn't realise that it was scam.

Greed kills. Sad

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:49 pm

^^Needing work is not greed. The scam you were targeted for snares a lot of people. You shouldn't feel embarrassed. We all make mistakes, it's what we chose to learn from them that defines us.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:29 pm

I'm with Luckey.

Unless you knew all along it was a scam, you most certainly were not greedy.

Computing Science student means nothing. We've seen Lawyers, Professors, Doctors, Teachers, people from all sorts of "academic" walks of life fall to scams. Scammers wouldn't scam if people didn't fall for them and they wouldn't make the money they do unless at least some educated people paid up.

And Gomer's right too. Life will go on once you've got this out of the way. There will be light at the end of the tunnel. Remember that thought.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:36 pm

@dinja, repeat this to yourself until you believe it:

I AM NOT STUPID. I AM NOT GULLIBLE. I AM NOT GREEDY.

Each of those is true. You are a person who was in a tight financial situation. Perhaps you didn't do a thorough job of checking out the "job offer" that led to this situation, but you were not stupid, you were not gullible, and you certainly were not greedy. Don't be hard on yourself. Hold your head up high - you are facing the music, and you are being honest about what you did. It is the best you can do now, and if you are open with the police, the bank, and your solicitor, things should go better for you.

The important thing is what you have learned, and now what you tell others about this scam. Education is the key to saving people from scams like this. Smile