How can you tell lies?

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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:30 am

I'm serious. I find it really hard to tell lies. I'm dealing with a Romance Scammer and I keep finding myself responding to him as if it's a genuine conversation. I almost tell him about something cute that my baby did today and then I remember that I don't have a baby - well not as far as he knows. You know what I mean.

Plus the spelling! I am acting as a 28 year old American woman and I'm actually British so I have to read through what I've written to make sure that I write 'center' instead of 'centre' and don't get me started on American geography!

I gave my postcode (or should I say zip code) as 90210 as it was the only one that I've ever heard of. I vaguely remember there was a TV show once that was called Beverly Hills 90210 so I know it is a genuine American post code so I just said that one as it's the only one I've ever heard of.

Am I right in thinking that if you're American you should pretend to be British and vice versa?

I'm so rubbish at telling lies. The only thing that helps me is to remember the sad stories that I've read about victims that have been cheated out of everything. That's the only thing that helps me. Because lets face it, if me and my baby son were starving and I didn't have enough money to feed my child, he would still try to take my money. That's my motivation to tell lies to him.

It's kind of depressing at times though. How do you guys deal with that? Just out of curiosity, what is your motivation for baiting?

Mine is that I hate that they will try to steal from people and I want to kick their arse for being so cruel.

I'd love to hear your thoughts?
Very Happy

Baiting Guru Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Posts: 2531 Location: AU

I look at it like this.

You are writing a Novel (fiction) in this novel you have one or a few characters who are variables. Where your novel goes depends on what these variable characters do in the story.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:49 am

Im an American and I play Americans. But they arent anything like me. Its not at all hard to be someone else completely different for a while...its actually a vacation for me. lol

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:55 am

Quote:

I find it really hard to tell lies.

Yes that's not strange, you are probably a very nice person and it happens then. I'm not a nice person (90% hermit) and had the same problem, felt that I couldn't do that, was lowering myself to their level. It held me back until I read a few victims stories and actually had a conversation with one, then I was willing to shoot them starting at their feet and slowly working my way up. They are criminals and working on the basic feelings of lonely people.(love lads)
It's normal to feel ashamed, embarrassed about it. (none English typist, can't get it all clear ) So start reading a bit on scamwarners.com and that might set you on fire. If not, there are ways to get back at them without directly talking/typing to them, killing sites is a lad free hobby that requires some skills and it really hurts them a lot.
I can't really help here, you're doing the right thing by questioning it, but believe me, they are willing to go over dead bodies to get to the money.
If their victim doesn't have any more money they will talk it into a second mortgage, no problem for them.
It takes a thief to catch one and knowing you're doing it for all the right reasons will give the piece of mind you need.
I hope this helped a bit, it's not you, it's them and they have to be stopped, even if you can safe on victim from that hell, you have done your good deeds for the next 25 years.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:05 am

just reading the posting you made.. a couple of things to balance your feelings:

First of all.. Anyone that pursues your fictional character, no matter what he tells you, no matter what his story.. are all lies. By the third email or Instant Message conversation -- Lad has tested the water enough to prove his feeble mind that you are another victim. And he will stop at nothing to keep that payday within sight.

Bill hit it right on. These people are scum, praying and life altering vermin that feed on naive victims that are searching for answers, gullible people who are looking to come into a windfall. This is why it is important to respond and act like a victim.

Baits are designed to entertain your self and to push a little public service by wasting time. Some baiters have created involved stories.. even designed websites to reinforce their background. Its all good.

Just keep in mind that your new friend is looking at you with a huge dollar sign over your head. And don't worry about making the proper spelling of words because you are in one part of the world and you made up character is in another. Laddie would never know the difference.

All he's counting on is a Western Union payout if he think that he can push you hard enough

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 1043

hmm, I'm a natural liar. I just love to lie. Well, about unimportant things to unimportant - to me - people. A couple of nights ago, I was a penguin trainer at the local zoo to one lady at the club, and a prison officer to another group of people, I think I had 4 names during the night.

If it gets really hard to keep your facts straight, you can always make a fact sheet for each persona and refer to it. As most have said, don't worry about the spelling, if he asks, you were home schooled by an English tutor or your dad was English and you were whipped if you spelt words "wrong". He won't ask. You may also just shorten your replies, you can't go far wrong in a one line email.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:34 am

I highly doubt that most lads are going to worry about US -v- Brit spellings or geography so don't get too bogged down with semantics. I'm a ex Brit, now full time Aussie and all my baiting characters are based in the UK so it's familiar territory at least but I have never once been questioned about it. The lad is only interested in my MONEY, and doesn't give a rat's about anything else.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:34 am

i thought of a fictional characater

any questions that are asked of him, the answers are made up on the day

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:50 am

I tell people I write romantic fiction. Very Happy

I write the lines for my character, and then as an actress I perform them. We are no more lying than is Meryl Streep or George Clooney.

And the more you get into baiting, the less you'll feel like it's "you" corresponding and talking with the lads. You'll begin looking for tell-tale signs that a money request is coming soon, or you'll begin ticking off little things that are so uniquely laddish. You will begin to be amused at his pretensions and lies, and you will begin to feel that the lies you tell him are nothing compared to the lies he tells you.

Whenever you begin to feel a little doubt, drop by ScamWarners again and read a tale or two. Or one of the sites specifically for romance scam victims (like romancescam.com). That should stiffen your resolve. Evil or Very Mad

And don't worry about the spelling. Every lad I've found who claims to be American has a "sence of humour." Wink

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:59 am

Hi Daisy,
I'm an american, never been overseas, yet the lads are so focused on the money, I've managed to travel the world in three months by using google.

I concentrate mostly on romance lads. The reason I started baiting is that I have a few RL friends that were scammed by these romance lads.
They didn't just lose money, but their self worth, and their sense of security too. These are intelligent, well educated wonderful women that were looking for love. They are embarrassed and depressed over what they have been through. I know for every story we hear about, there are thousands more we don't hear.

I feel that I am trying in a small way to make a difference, and keep these criminals away from a real victim.

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 1043

^ That's pretty much the reason I don't touch love lads. I can cut away from everything the other lads do. Even the really nasty recovery scams and loan scams don't get to me. They anger me, but I am always in control. Just reading love baits makes me want to take the sharp side of a shovel to someone's head and that's not a cool feeling.

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 5727

In real life I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning author and porn star, so making up things comes naturally to me.

Not buying that one, are you? Very Happy

Okay, seriously, I understand why you are struggling with the aspect of lying, but if you keep thinking that the romance lad that desperately needs $500 to purchase grandma's medicine, or the lottery official that must have $1,200 to release your million dollar winnings, or the inheritance lawyer that needs $800 to take your case before the high cour, or.... well, you get the idea, is more than likely a lad sitting behind a computer in an internet cafe, laughing at your misery, it gets a whole lot easier.

I think it just proved that I'm not really an author, as that was one hell of a run-on sentence. Either that or I'm really Thomas Pynchon. The porn star part is true though.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:48 am

90210 is a very nice place where centre is an acceptable spelling. I've never been to Milan but tell my lads when I'm off on holiday that I'm on an Italian clothing run. I put on the air not to show off, but to play the part of a rich victim. I really want the lad to spend the time downloading my photos and writing me and not scamming some grandmother somewhere.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:02 am

I'm a role-player as a hobby.

I've been a Russian mage, an Elf Adventurer, and a Troll wizard, a daredevil space pilot, and a cynical ex-cop turned spy from a city the size of Europe.

My baiter personae have included a petulant foul-mouthed Odin-worshipping photomodel from Sydney, a retired US Marine, a fervent Christian evangelist, two outback blokes - one a jovial tour guide and the other a secret serial killer - and a Russian mobster.

Being someone else must come naturally to me...

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:02 am

I see lying and baiting as an art form. Rather than bait for trophies, safaris, art and tattoos as I have tried and failed to do in the past, I see baiting as an opportunity to test how outrageous I can make a lie and still get away with it. It usually results in a good laugh, learning even further how to take advantage of someone's greed, and ultimately, become a smarter, keener person with a stronger mental defense. I see it as a learning experience, because I know the best liars also have the most finely tuned bullshit detectors.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:19 am

For me, it is "interactive fiction". I have been a scammer, a PI, an accountant, a doctor, a thief and a couple more that escape me right now. All of those were in the same bait! Shocked

I have read what these vermin do to their victims and my motivation is to discourage them so that they leave real victims alone. In a perfect world, I would see that scammers only talk to baiters!

If you con't like to make things up (lie) look into site killing or some of the less "contact sports". There is room for all kinds of scam fighters here. Very Happy

419Eater is my life Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Posts: 366

Google is your friend. I know an awful lot about West Africa just following a 5afari that sent a lad from Nigeria to Cameroon and later Benin.

My characters are based on RL cultural experiences as a way of keeping them straight.

Why do I do this? I am mostly upset at the truly innocent victims. The people who do things that are morally right or nothing at all that turns them into a victim.

The craft shop in Australia used by a scammer as an address. The retired man who returns the check overpayment. The friends who respond to a plea for help from a scammer who hacked a email contacts list.

I get involved in shutting down 2 or 3 phishing scams a week. Most of these victims are innocent. The typical phishing scam is basically identity theft designed to last about 24 hours before it is detected. A mass mailing misrepresenting a bank or credit card company is sent out with a link to a URL on an unprotected innocent web site that extracts information (account and passwords) and sends the information to a third location. The key is shutting down the URL on the innocent web site as soon as possible within minutes if possible.

I bait 419 scammers to go after their infrastructure.

p.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:52 am

I'm a Brit who baits as a Brit. To be honest I'm a bit of a scatterbrain so I have to keep things as simple as possible, otherwise I'd be caught out too often. My details, addresses, things like that aren't so far from reality. My characters are pretty far removed from what I am though. I even bait as a woman sometimes.

I know what you mean about lying.... it doesn't come all that naturally to me either, but in your case it looks to me like you should detach yourself from it all a little more. Don't see the scammer as a person, just see "him" as another job you have to do.

Trophy Videos · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:58 am

@daisyDuck - Just keep repeating to yourself, "It's only a movie. It's only a movie. It's only a movie." Wink

This line was from an old horror marketing advertisement for "The Last House On The Left."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068833/

In the opinion of a lot of the baiters here, lovelads are the lowest of the low, as they not only play with victims pocketbooks, they play with their trust of humanity and their hearts. If you are having trouble lying, just work on other types of baits until you have the confidence to tackle the lovelads. They are a special breed, and you have to be a bit more hardened emotionally toward them in order for them not to bother you.

Why don't you try doing some other types of baits, and practice "lying?"
Other baits don't require an immediate response, so you can take your time finding a good one. After baiting lots of lads, it will become easier for you to develop your own characters, and your characters responses will become more natural for you.

When I bait a lad, I always say to myself, "What would this character say back to the lad? Does the response fit his personality? How will the lad take this response? Will saying this move him closer to the story line, or farther away? What is more effective - ignoring him, reponding to only one thing, everything? When should I send this response-does it fit the timeline of where my character is supposed to be right now? Etc.
In order to know what to do, you just need experience with lads in general, and to go as farther in the bait, know you lad's mind in particular.

I bait for a lot of reasons. I stumbled on this website just clicking around the web one day, looking for a few good laughs. I started reading SP, YW, and BigWorm's safari's, following them minute to minute, and nearly died laughing. I couldn't believe what I was seeing happen, and I knew right away that I wanted to become involved with the funniest site I have ever seen on the internet. Very Happy

I later found out that the people here are not only the funniest people on earth, but also the some of the nicest.
Now all the members here are my friends, and I can't leave!

I can also see the affect that we are having on the scum lads, and the help extended to the victims, and I know we are doing a good public service. One more reason...TV is a vast wasteland, and baiting, interacting with friends here, and laughing my @ss off is a great feeling to have everyday. Very Happy

So, try to enjoy yourself here, daisyDuck, and have some fun!

419Eater is my life Joined: 25 Aug 2006 Posts: 403

Dear Daisy Duck,

Baiting is like Fishing........

trouble is that here in the 419 waters everthing is no good and thrown back. The fish on the other end would have no trouble messing up your life or anyone elses. You have to have the resolve to stick with it and stick it to him before he does someone else...

I have baited as an American, an Irish priest, A Brit, a Russian Woman and many others.... pick one persona... write out a fact sheet and be consistent.... Learn your character and the rest will follow.

Simon

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:45 am

Acting for me, too.... Smile

I feel like I´m slipping into a daily soap acting character during the minutes I type an email. The "different country of origin of your character" bit, I´ve found out simply placing a bit more mistakes (i.e. never proofreading it and writing extremely quickly) and knowing a basic vocabulary of "hi, good-bye, ok, brother, sister, money, how are you, nice too see you" has been sufficient for lads so far to buy my Turkish / Greek/ French origin...
Is this lying? I´d simply call it acting Smile

(MikeHawk called that "method acting"...but am I really changing my personality during these email-typing minutes?)
And like a daily soap, a longer bait might introduce more characters...for me it comes over time, only the main character is firm, the rest is flexible.
Only my fake addy and YAC number and fake bank details, i have written them down in a notepad. And frequently a reminder a la "Answer lad x like ... after the weekend".
Lying...hmmm....yes. It is lying. Lying for a good cause, however. Almost a service to society. You keep criminals busy with your characters.
And as Titania said, after a short while you look out for the lad´s scam anatomy, feeling more and more your character is working automatically and your own mind, your own personality becomes the referee, the overseer.
Do not worry so much. Smile

As long as you bait safe, everything is possible. See it as writing a real time daily soap opera script Wink

day after day after day, they interact with each other. I love that bit.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:00 pm

As I've been baiting longer, I've found it easier to lie to them.
I used to feel a bit guilty about it but I realised it would be a heck of a lot worse if they're scamming innocent victims.
It's the lesser of two evils I guess.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:04 pm

I consider myself to be an honest and truthful person, but when dealing with a professional liar and scammer, it is a great release to know I have no moral restraint.

My older brother went through a phase in his early years when everything he said was a lie and I noticed that people who lie are the easiest to fool, because they never expect honest people to lie to them. They are, in fact, bigger mugs than their victims.

Having a wild imagination helps, and it is very satisfying to stuff a pack of lies down a scammers throat.

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:21 pm

Lying is easy.
I just pretend I'm talking to JojoBean, Prof or some other person I don't like.

People I don't like don't deserve the truth.
They can't handle the truth!!!!

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:53 pm

Know what you mean. My parents are church-goers, honest to the very core, horrified beyond belief when I got caught in the local Woolworths eating a few sweets from the pick-and-mix at 12 years old. I was brought up to believe that lying was one of the most terrible things you could do. However, there were such things as 'white' lies, which could be used to protect someone. So you could say we use 'white' lies.