I think my father might get scammed. Advise please.

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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:47 am

A bit of a background story. My dad is a chronic gambler and have gambled away tens of thousands of dollars throughout my life time. (I'm 21) The last time this occurred was abut 3 to 4 years ago, so I guess he's doing ok now. However my parents argue every couple of months and it gets to a point where my mother wants to divorce.

My mother just told me that my father wants to borrow 15K in loans for a business that his two friends wants to start with him. These 2 friends have known my father about 2 to 3 years max. This business is suppose to be "under table" so they require 15K in cash and there's no contract or anything since it's "under table."

The business is suppose to be copper exporting/selling to businesses in China.

Already this sounds fishy to me, money in cash, and no contract. My mother doesn't want to give him the money but agreed to co sign a loan for him, if he and my mother would be divorced, therefore removing his name from any of our property; bank accounts, house mortgage, cars and etc. Do you guys think my father is on the tracks to being scammed? What's your take on this.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:51 am

Hard to say from the information you have, but "under the table" and cash only seem like watch out words to me. Given that he has known these people for a few years, it doesn't seem likely that it is a classic, email initiated advance fee fraud.

I'll move this to misc scams where, hopefully, it will get more focused attention.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:52 am

Can you post the exact text?

A lot of times, you can google key phrases of the text and locate duplicates of the letter in various scam repositories on the internet. That might convince your dad.

Also, there is a site called scamwarners.com. Can you get him to visit that site?

Bruin

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:08 am

This isn't a letter, it's a word of mouth. My dad isn't english literate. (FOB)

It's really hard to tell your father that he might be walking into a trap, especially since he's the type where the son should listen to the father and it's never the other way around.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:42 am

If your dad seems unlikely to listen to you, is there any person he would be likely to listen to - pastor, counsellor, etc.? If there is, you might go to that person and voice your concerns.

"under the table" and "cash only" ring warning bells to me as well. Even if it's not a scam in the "classic" sense, where are they getting the copper from? Around here, there are thefts of copper wire and piping all the time due to the high price that scrap metal brings in.

If your mother co-signs a loan that ends up being used for illegal purposes, she might find herself in trouble. Sad

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:09 am

There are two separate issues here - your dad possibly getting scammed, and your mum's position.

As for your dad, it is hard to say with the information we have, but I'd suggest to him that he takes professional advice from a business advisor at his bank, or someone in a local Chamber of Commerce or whatever your local equivalent is (is there some sort of association of business people in the town?). If the people he is going into business with are insistent on confidentiality and get upset about the idea of him taking advice, that's a clear cause for alarm, I'd say, and a good reason to back out.

Your mum needs separate legal advice as to the consequences for her if the business fails. If she co-signs to get your dad to agree a divorce and take his name off all joint property, she may see that as a good thing. However, she will be jointly and separately liable for the loan. That means if your dad defaults she can be asked to pay the whole lot herself, which may put in danger the very assets she was trying to protect from his gambling addiction.

You're welcome here at Eater, HookNBait, although I am sorry it's in such circumstances, and you have my sympathy for your position caught up in the middle of this. Sad

Edit for typo.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:33 am

I'm sorry you are caught up in such a tricky situation. Perhaps this isn't a scam at all but some kind of shady business deal being put together by your father and his friends? Are they setting up this deal or is there a mystery third party asking them for some cash upfront. We really need more details so we can work out what's possibly going on.

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:05 am

bring your dad to our world for a while. show him this site, and some of the scams that are out there. show him your concerns, and explain that you are only looking out for his best interest.
I have a neice that fell for evry sob story she ever heard online, because they came in fwds from people she trusted. and she would hapily send the fwd on to me,
sick kid in hospital, poor family over seas who need a thousand signitures for somthing or another.
you are probably going to have to fight throug the powderd but syndrone but get his dad (if living) to help.
under table is bad for buisness, especialy if you have to explain to the irs where all that money you made came from.

Master Baiter Joined: 08 Sep 2008 Posts: 113

Two things raise big flags for me. First is no contract. Implying his friends are going to take advantage of him might be met with the opposite reaction you want. But perhaps a question of, what if something generally goes wrong? With no contract (speaking from the US, but I imagine it's similar elsewhere) a victim with nothing in writing has virtually no leg to stand on. What if the Chinese businesses renege on the deal, perhaps?

The other is perhaps just my confusion. You say "my father wants to borrow 15K" and "they require 15K in cash". If this is to mean he's the only one putting up money, there's serious trouble. Perhaps an appeal to his gambling side? Think of how differently someone might play poker if they were gambling someone else's money? I imagine though, each one is putting up the same amount -- but if you're not sure, it's something you need to find out.

(but then, I'm just some random nobody on a forum.. things to toss around perhaps, but I'm no expert in anything at all...)

Not quite a Newb Joined: 19 Oct 2008 Posts: 41

~ HookNBait,

Are you certain you dad hasnt gambled for that period in time ? Its hard to trust gambler's but then people do change. It your parents are prepared to meet repayments for the loan ( which is not a huge sum) , your mother could proceed with it with the understanding that if the venture doesn't produce results for your father that he should not bother to ask for any more.

Your dad 'deserves' (?) the chance to make money through legitimate business as opposed to pre-occupiying himself with gambling to make money( pointless).
Duke Wayne
Howy'd Pilgrim

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:45 am

not that i know anything, but it seems to me that for that small an amount, they must be planning on buying the copper on paper (say from india), and then arranging for shipping to china directly. they would never even take physical possesion of the copper. while this seems to be in theory possibly legit, the under-the-table part says it definately isnt, and if i had to guess, id say that one of your dads friends is being scammed, and is recruiting his friends to come up with the 15-45k so they can get a huge payday (which will of course never come). where else would they even hear about something like this, if not on the internet?

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:52 am

Thinking about the current stock in the markets of every nation, where more than 50% of all products are labelled "Made in China" and maybe another 5% which are not labelled to be made there but still have been produced in China (yes, that happens) I cannot see any reason why China would want to import copper.

I don't know which country you are in, but if you cannot offer really really low prices I don't see a market for that business.

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:40 am

regrardless of how poor a deal they might get, they still may need copper beyond their own supply, for electronics manufacture. that doesnt mean this isnt a scam, b/c it most likely is

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:03 pm

China has been hit by the recession, too. Factories are closing, and one area in particular has been laying people off in large numbers. Is this such a good deal anymore, even if it's legit? (Which I highly doubt.)

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