Author |
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emsjeep
419Eater is my life
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 349
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:42 am |
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I'm new at this and am currently running 3-4 scambaits. One of those has turned out pretty well. I’m at the point where I just made up fake British Airways flight confirmations from Philadelphia to London to meet these guys. I have to ask though, am I too committing fraud? indeed I have created a fraudulent instrument in the fake document...if I ever need to involve the Police by necessity (death threats) or by choice (set up a time and place to meet in London) could I be subject to prosecution? |
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Donato
Baiting Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 2922
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:52 am |
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1) afaik-and i'm not a lawyer-what we do is not illegal.
2) If you are saying you wish to involve the police if you get a death threat, then i might suggest that you just straight bait lads and slowly fade away when the time comes-then they'll be minimal chance of a death threat. Most people on here see them as badges of honour and display them in their signature lines. Some people, myself included actively seek them as can be seen in the insulting mass bait thread in the 'publish your work' section. The first one is unnerving, but after that it's water off a ducks back.
3) If you choose to involve the police, they won't be interested, they have too much to do with too little resources. Internet scams iirc are not a crime until money has changed hands. As you're a baiter and won't be paying there will be no crime for the police to investigate.
Oh and lastly get your self a document scrubber to make sure you don't leave any hidden traces of yourself if you send your lad documents... If you want fakey air tickets try here http://omatic.musicairport.com/ |
_________________ ^^^ damn tree hugging hippy. -imike
Your are a complete ASSHOLE!! Dont you dare mail me again BASTARD!!!-george harrison
- lots
<i><b>Free Pastor Frank!!!</b></i> |
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Gnasher
Baiting Guru
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 2849
Location: Centre Stage in the Theatre of Cruelty
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:56 am |
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Welcome emsjeep. Please don't be too alarmed about any death threats you may receive. They may seem intimidating but since your lad has no idea as to your real identity, personal details and location (right? ) you can't possibly come to any harm, especially as you have no intention of actually travelling anywhere to meet him. Baiters receive death threats all the time and we regard them as a bonus because it means the lad is getting really rattled and shows the bait is having the desired effect.
As for getting your scammer arrested, unless you can give the police a huge amount of specific and correct detail about your scammer and since all the information the scammer has given you will be a pack of lies then unfortunately there isn't much that the police can do. That's why internet scammers are so successful unfortunately.
If you can get the scammer to hang around at London airport for hours waiting for a non-existant "victim" who never even got on a flight then congratulations! |
_________________ x21
"you have to pay because he need to submit this form to the Federal Ministry Of Fancies" Barrister John/Mike/Richard Okeke
"they are in deed the swinders rotating about in the net and searching for whom they will stylishly defraud your belongings" A. Moron
"Please pray harder for God to guide and protect us during our travelling because flight airplane i observe is a very big risky" Abdul Karibu
"WE DOESN'T LIKE HOW DISOBIDIENT YOU ARE!" Coco Law Chambers
"BE INFORMED THAT YOU WILL INCUR DUMMERAGE AFTER 9 DAYS FROM TODAY" Burkina Faso Air Secure Air Service.\ |
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Dorothy
Baiting Guru
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 3114
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:50 am |
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emsjeep,
Basically, lying is not illegal if you are not trying to profit from it. |
_________________ "I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more..." |
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emsjeep
419Eater is my life
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 349
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:27 am |
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Oh, I'm not afraid of the threats, on the contrary, I look forward to them. When I disappear mysteriously and my family gets a phone call from a Nigerian freighter 50 miles off the coast of New Jersey asking for $2 Million at least they will know why...
I don't expect them to do anything, but I don't see how it would otherwise be a bad idea to submit it just for the sake of being officially recorded, just in case.
I hope that .jpeg wasn't tagged with an author's name... |
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Gnasher
Baiting Guru
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 2849
Location: Centre Stage in the Theatre of Cruelty
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:42 am |
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Of course you are free to lodge a formal complaint with the police but they simply don't have the time, the resources or the jurisdiction to investigate a bunch of lads using fake names sitting in an anonymous internet cafe thousands of miles away in Lagos or wherever. Experience has shown that even if we are able to obtain a large amount of verifiable information about these crooks the realistic chances of having them caught, arrested, charged and brought to justice are Zero. That's why we fight back in other ways like wasting the scammers time and money by baiting them. It's a noble cause so enjoy inflicting as much pain as possible and bait safe! |
_________________ x21
"you have to pay because he need to submit this form to the Federal Ministry Of Fancies" Barrister John/Mike/Richard Okeke
"they are in deed the swinders rotating about in the net and searching for whom they will stylishly defraud your belongings" A. Moron
"Please pray harder for God to guide and protect us during our travelling because flight airplane i observe is a very big risky" Abdul Karibu
"WE DOESN'T LIKE HOW DISOBIDIENT YOU ARE!" Coco Law Chambers
"BE INFORMED THAT YOU WILL INCUR DUMMERAGE AFTER 9 DAYS FROM TODAY" Burkina Faso Air Secure Air Service.\ |
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geller
Master Baiter
Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Posts: 113
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:14 pm |
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emsjeep wrote: |
I hope that .jpeg wasn't tagged with an author's name... |
There may be better out there, but I use Exif reader, found here to see what extra information is embedded in a picture file. (The page is initially in Japanese, but an English version is also available from the Exif link.) |
_________________ x4
"I will also want to let you know that you can use some part of the fund to encourage some of your friends to join your lifestyle by intiseing them with money." - Rebeca
"You are stupid. [...] You have proved to be a criminal. Do not write me again or I will send the FBI after you." - Jerry
"If you ever write me again then I will know you’re the worst IDIOT on earth." - Chuks
"each time i recieve your mail you make me feel sick,bad luck to you ,i have already gooten an helper so forget about me, i can not live or deal with a junky,joker,lier like you" - Nene |
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windypops
Baiting Guru
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 6059
Location: Planet X
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:11 pm |
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The worse that will happen is that your lad sets the F.B.I on you. They're a bunch of pussycats though in my experience and dealings with them.
Weren't they going to make it an offense to impersonate someone or not give your real details using email in the U.S.?
I think commonsense prevailed and the proposal was quietly dropped in the end. |
_________________ "No amount of semen donation will save this situation" Sanny Sanny
"We must disagree to agree" Raji Musa
If it's LADS you want. GoTo: http://www.yopmail.com/
and sign in with either ladmail or kentbrockman
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Grumpy_Oldman
Hello I'm New here!
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 16
Location: West
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:19 pm |
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emsjeep wrote: |
I have to ask though, am I too committing fraud? indeed I have created a fraudulent instrument in the fake document... |
So do toy and gag company's. Monopoly prints "Money" and fake stock certificates can be had from various joke shops. As long as you are not trying to sell them as the real thing and make money.... its all good clean fun right, so have FUN, and bait safe. |
_________________ <a href="/forum/donate.php">[Click here to donate to 419Eater.com]</a>
“Some things have to be believed to be seen.”
- Ralph Hodgson |
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Bobtheelephant
419Eater is my life
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 381
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:45 pm |
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This is where I come in.
I'm a licensed criminal defense attorney, so let's talk about what is and is not a crime. I'm going to speak to Federal American law here; your state law may be different, and you need to double check within your state. If you're not in the good ol' USA, then disregard this post entirely.
FORGERY
Code section link: LINK
This is one that's a little overlooked on these forums, but take a moment to look at 18 USC Sec. 1028. This one's a beast; basically, it involves using or possessing forged identification documents, and it makes it illegal. You can possess up to four of them, as long as you don't intend to use them for anything, but the moment you "produce" one (use it to identify yourself), you are committing a federal felony. Furthermore, if you have any programs or blank documents designed to allow you to create a false ID, then you are committing a federal felony.
What does this mean? It means DO NOT fake a passport, driver's license, social security card, etc. Whether or not you are doing it in order to get anything back from people does not matter. Producing a false ID is a felony, and it can get you some serious time.
FRAUD
Code Section link: LINK
Generally speaking, the above persons are right; in order to be a fraudster, you must be trying to get something from someone. There's some exceptions to this rule, though, with regard to e-mail that can be very, very important. This is under 18 USC Sec. 1037, and it prohibits and makes felonious the following:
"Whoever, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly -
(1) accesses a protected computer without authorization, and intentionally initiates the transmission of multiple commercial electronic mail messages from or through such computer,
(2) uses a protected computer to relay or retransmit multiple commercial electronic mail messages, with the intent to deceive or mislead recipients, or any Internet access service, as to the origin of such messages,
(3) materially falsifies header information in multiple commercial electronic mail messages and intentionally initiates the transmission of such messages,
(4) registers, using information that materially falsifies the identity of the actual registrant, for five or more electronic mail accounts or online user accounts or two or more domain names, and intentionally initiates the transmission of multiple commercial electronic mail messages from any combination of such accounts or domain names, or
(5) falsely represents oneself to be the registrant or the legitimate successor in interest to the registrant of 5 or more Internet Protocol addresses, and intentionally initiates the transmission of multiple commercial electronic mail messages from such addresses"
The big one there, as I've highlited in bold, is faking commercial e-mails from five or more e-mail accounts. What does that mean? It means limit yourself to four baiter mail addies if you're doing commercial baits. Romance baits are not included in this; you can fake a name when having cyber all you want, but as soon as ANY transaction becomes commercial, you can't have five or more fake accounts. So if you've got four accounts you're running commercial baits out of, and one you're romance bainting out of....you're still committing a felony. It's any combination of addies, not at least one mail from each.
This is a federal fraud regardless of what you are actually doing; if the e-mails are commercial in nature, then you're committing a felony with five or more e-mail addys.
EXTORTION
Code Section link: LINK
18 USC Sec. 875(d) reads in full "Whoever, with intent to extort from any person, firm, association, or corporation, any money or other thing of value, transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any threat to injure the property or reputation of the addressee or of another or the reputation of a deceased person or any threat to accuse the addressee or any other person of a crime, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."
Occasionally some of the baits I've seen in this forum do fall into this category (send me X and I will not report you to the EFCC). This is a touchy one, and it could lead to federal prosecution. The solution on this is to make sure that whatever slap you give your lad is not tied to your receiving something of value. As long as you never tie a threat to receiving anything, you're not committing extortion.
Remember that value in the law is a very broad concept; basically, if it's only worth the data it's encrypted on, it still has some value. The fact that you're baiting for a picture instead of cash does not mean what you're bainting for has no value.
These are the big federal issues you run into while baiting. As long as you know what's prohibited, you can bait and not commit a federal crime. AGAIN: Check the laws of your individual state, as this little post just highlites some of the federal issues that might come up and covers no state law at all (as yours truly is not licensed to cover state law save for one state). Bait within those restrictions, and you should be fine.
Edited to add code section links
MOD edit - converted butt long urls to links - RC |
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Connie L. Gus
Moderator
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 7243
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:05 pm |
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^^^Those are some butt long linkies. I am not a fraudstar and I take a death threat as a compliment. |
_________________ x8
LISTEN TO ME WHAT DO YOU TAKE ME FOR ONE OF THOSE CHEAP CROOK OR WHAT -tobi donito
-a few,
LISTEN I CAN NOT TAKE YOUR SHIT ANY LONGER WE HAVE WHROTE A PETITION AGAINST YOU TO THE FBI WITH ALL OUR EVIDENCE YOU ARE INTO PROSTITUTION,DRUG DEALING, FORGERY, CREDIT CARDS FORGRY WESTEN UNION FALSIFICATION,DRUGING MEN,COMMETING MURDER, STEALING, DRUNCARD, ALL THIS WE HAVE THE EVIDENCE TO PROOF OUR CASE AGAINST YOU.-Johnson Hill
I am not finding it any funny...Henry A., Lagos, Nigeria to Cotonou, Benin, WIMPed
I am stranderd. Henry A. Lagos to Accra, WIMPed for 67 days.
* Help Keep Eater Running - Click here to donate |
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Bobtheelephant
419Eater is my life
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 381
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:06 pm |
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Connie L. Gus wrote: |
^^^Those are some butt long linkies. |
That's the feds for you. |
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Corona
Baiting Guru
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 8809
Location: On ya left!
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:07 pm |
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Welcome Bobtheelephant!
How do they know who I am and why would I be under investigation in the first place?
Edit: To answer your question, I'm not!
THEY are another story! |
_________________
x? x?
Free Pastor Frank
An Eater's Sweetheart Safari |
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Bobtheelephant
419Eater is my life
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 381
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:16 pm |
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Corona wrote: |
How do they know who I am and why would I be under investigation in the first place? |
I was answering the initial question: "Is what we're doing illegal?" Your question is "How likely am I to get caught while committing this felony?"
One of my oaths as an attorney is to never encourage anyone to break the law. Answering that second question puts me in to very murky ethical ground, and by "ethical" I mean "Professional Rules of Ethics;" the things used to disbar attorneys.
That being said, remember that under the Bushies there's a pretty elaborate system regarding international communications. It's not surprising to find that most international e-mail is being warrantlessly collected and examined by federal investigators. Now, the official line is that they're looking for terrorists, not scambaiters, but if they happen to find someone committing a felony, then who knows?
It's much more likely to come up if you're busted for something else, and a search of your computer shows that you committed these felonies in addition to whatever you were busted for. Any federal prosecutor worth her salt will stack these on in order to pressure you into some form of a plea deal, or to add to your time in the "relevant conduct" slot of the sentencing guidelines.
EDIT: Also, the OP gives us another scenario; if for some reason you need law enforcement protection during the course of your bait (unlikely, but possible), or you want law enforcement to act against someone (still unlikely, but possible), then you have to be totally clean yourself before you can contact them.
Short answer: There's some stuff that's illegal, and the possibility exists that you could be prosecuted for it. Better safe than sorry. |
Last edited by Bobtheelephant on Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Grumpy_Oldman
Hello I'm New here!
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 16
Location: West
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:16 pm |
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Bobtheelephant
Thank you for going to the trouble of looking those up, I've seen this question asked on the forum a few times. |
_________________ <a href="/forum/donate.php">[Click here to donate to 419Eater.com]</a>
“Some things have to be believed to be seen.”
- Ralph Hodgson |
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Bobtheelephant
419Eater is my life
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 381
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:25 pm |
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^^ No problem; I looked those up before I started baiting myself, so it wasn't too hard to just link em. |
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Corona
Baiting Guru
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 8809
Location: On ya left!
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:30 pm |
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Jayhawk
Baiting Guru
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 5727
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:10 pm |
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Cool. An elephant attorney! I bet you never forget a case!
As to the part concerning email addresses, while I'm not an attorney, I would think that the part about "initiating" the exchange would make this on somewhat murky ground. I obviously have more than five characters, and more than five email addresses, however I never "initiate" the exchanges. I might respond to a scam sent to character X with character Y, but in all cases I am responding to an email sent by the lad, and not initiating the exchange.
Then again, what do I know, as I will obviously be sharing a cell with a lonely man known as "Big Bubba" in the future. |
_________________ x8 < slacking?
just checked the site for update now, shipment smurfs in Porto Novo. Yes!! - Stanley
i will not share my smurfs with anybody again - Stanley (again)
Yes pets are allowed as far as you will occupy the apartment alone, you can release the Kraken.
i will kill you even if it take me to go to jail i will do that because i hate you with all my life....
assisin killer to Feathers McGraw
PLEASE I BEG YOU TO LET ME KNOW THAT PIGGIES OF YOURS PLEASE... assisin killer to Feathers again
x5 Team Humphere
Long Live Silver Peak Orphanage! - Loan Lad Langwenya Andile |
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Zenya
Not quite a Newb
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 51
Location: Chillin' with HAL.
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:12 pm |
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Neat site! If anyone wants air tickets for airlines not listed on there, and according to valid timetables, just let me know... I should be able to whip something up from my extensive collection of airline-related materials. |
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Mr Tambourine Man
Baiting Guru
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 3398
Location: Magic swirlin' ship
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:16 pm |
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"and intentionally initiates the transmission of multiple commercial electronic mail messages "
Baiters don't initiate email exchanges, they respond to scam emails. And no baiter thinks he's involved in a commercial transaction. |
_________________ is always Good when you have the zeal to be a hitwoman when you out of school,it makes you bold and reall and it makes you more high than any other of your friend.
NOW AMBACK FOR YOU AGAIN STURBORN SHIT
you dont have a phone.that makes makes you joe butt
Fuck you and go find something to do man. Stop disturbing me please.
This is definitely why you will remain and die in poverty, ignorant of good things and easy acknowledgment of bad things and words. Shame on you, you wicked generation children.
i went you to no that this is not a cheld pray. i went you to get back to me
we are not scammer,we hate scammer as you do.scammer make out life harder and harder,a lot of people think we are scammer,in fact,we are not!! please trustt us |
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Bobtheelephant
419Eater is my life
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 381
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:17 pm |
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Jayhawk wrote: |
As to the part concerning email addresses, while I'm not an attorney, I would think that the part about "initiating" the exchange would make this on somewhat murky ground. I obviously have more than five characters, and more than five email addresses, however I never "initiate" the exchanges. |
But look at what needs to be initiated: it's not an exchange, it's a transmission. The fact that someone else is contacting you first doesn't matter; the phrase is "initiates the transmission." In other words, all you have to do to fit the bill is cause any commercial e-mail to be sent out. Hitting the "send" button is all it takes to fit that bill.
It doesn't get you off the hook that the transmission you are initiating is a response to another transmission. As long as you are hitting a send button, you're initiating a transmission. |
Last edited by Bobtheelephant on Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Corona
Baiting Guru
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 8809
Location: On ya left!
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:19 pm |
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Zenya
Not quite a Newb
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 51
Location: Chillin' with HAL.
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:21 pm |
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^ It would also be interesting to know what the corresponding laws say in Canada... also, do the Provinces set their own laws too like BobtheElephant says happens in the US, or does only Dominion law apply? |
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Jayhawk
Baiting Guru
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 5727
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:23 pm |
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Bob, (or is it "Barrister Elephant"?), what exactly constitutes a "commercial emai", and how is that different than a regular email? |
_________________ x8 < slacking?
just checked the site for update now, shipment smurfs in Porto Novo. Yes!! - Stanley
i will not share my smurfs with anybody again - Stanley (again)
Yes pets are allowed as far as you will occupy the apartment alone, you can release the Kraken.
i will kill you even if it take me to go to jail i will do that because i hate you with all my life....
assisin killer to Feathers McGraw
PLEASE I BEG YOU TO LET ME KNOW THAT PIGGIES OF YOURS PLEASE... assisin killer to Feathers again
x5 Team Humphere
Long Live Silver Peak Orphanage! - Loan Lad Langwenya Andile |
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Bobtheelephant
419Eater is my life
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 381
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Posted:
Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:25 pm |
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Mr Tambourine Man wrote: |
And no baiter thinks he's involved in a commercial transaction. |
Again, not an issue. The question is whether the e-mail itself is commercial in nature, not whether either party intends it to be. It's an analysis conducted on the face of the document. So if your bait is "I've got an investment bank, and I'll pay you X for your investment" or some such (which, by the way, is my basic modality), then the fact that I never intend to complete the transaction really doesn't mean anything. The e-mail is commercial in nature, so that's enough.
TWAT, for instance, is a much safer modality; it's not a commercial enterprise, it's a church. So those emails wouldn't be commercial in nature. It all depends on the way you're baiting them.
EDIT: More full explanation of the term: 15 USC Sec. 7702(2)(A) reads:
"The term "commercial electronic mail message" means any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service (including content on an Internet website operated for a commercial purpose)."
LINK |
Last edited by Bobtheelephant on Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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