Illegal dogs

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Master Baiter Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 114

Does anybody else here own a pit bull? I have one and his name is Eric and he is the most gentle and friendly dog that you could ever meet. I love him like a son. This week I have had him yelping and being in pain every time that he has moved. I took him to the vet who did a few things to his bowels and now he is getting back to his old self. That's good because I've been upset all week seeing him in pain.

Because he is an "illegal dog" in the UK I had to think about whether or not I could / should take him to the vet. These dogs are only what you make them. If you treated a Jack Russell the same way as some people treat pit bulls then it would turn out the same way. I'm interested to hear the thoughts of other members.

Cheers.

Scambo

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:06 am

My mother in law use to show them so my wife has been around them all her life and she was never bitten.

Any dog can be gentle and friendly if they are treated right.

I am glad Eric is feeling better. If he is sick or hurt you should take him to the vet. It would be cruel not to. I am pretty sure you can find out which vets feel compelled to report you and which don't. Obviously go to the ones who won't and tell the ones who will that they can bite you Wink

I had a Great Dane and almost everyone was afraid of him because of his size. In truth, he was just a 150 lb lap dog and a momma's boy at that. He was an incredibly sweet and loving friend.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:12 am

Don't own one (can't--not home some days due to work). but I have walked, worked with, played with, and or photographed hundreds of them in my lifetime, and I think they are a great breed!

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:15 am

Scambo,
I'm glad Eric is feeling better. I imagine it really hurt your heart when he was yelping. I'm glad you found a Vet that would treat him too.

I love all dogs. I feel that it's the way they are treated as to what their behavior will turn out to be.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:30 am

As much as you love Eric, why buy a dog that is illegal to own in your country?

If he ever loses it and bites someone (and lets face it, if say, a firework makes him kick off, there's not a lot you can do) it will be you who is seriously in the poop, and Eric who is taken away and put down, whatever the rights and wrongs of the matter.

Having said that, the UK Dangerous Dogs Act was one of those knee jerk panic responses brought in quickly after a few high profile cases made the news. It categorises dogs as dangerous only if they belong to certain breeds, so a mental Rotweiler is OK, a placid Pitbull isn't.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:01 am

pit bulls are illigal to own or breed in Australia. And rightly so.

Why do you think there illigal to keep, do you think it's because there dangerous

You say he's frendly, etc, yeah right, wait till it turns, and trust me IT WILL ATTACK. I,ve heard all the stories about these bloody things, and we read about kids with half there faces missing. And the idiots that own them always say the same thing, Its not a pure breed dog it's a cross breed..

Tell you what , do yourslf a favour, and your neighbourhood, and have the bloody thing put down, before it attacks some poor bastard and you end up where you belong, IN JAIL.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:06 am

Quote:

pit bulls are illigal to own or breed in Australia

And I wish they were in the U.S. It's no coincidence that a large percentage of maulings by dogs are done by Pit Bulls. They are genetically predisposed to agressive behavior. You never know what will set them off.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:07 am

They were specifically designed (and thus bred) to murder other creatures for pure bloodlust.

I love dogs, but pitbulls, even the most gentle ones, are ticking time bombs and deserve no place in our society.

You can be as caring as you like to them, their genetics are far stronger than your demeanour. Even if they're angelic 99% of the time there's always the threat of them reverting to instinct. Through breeding experience (with other breeds) I've learned that you should never under estimate the power of genes. All pitbulls have somewhere deep in their psyche that says "kill, maim, hunt, hurt, blood". Whilst they may remain completely placid most of the time, the urge to do what they were designed to do is strong (as it is in any animal).

It's no different to the mentality that most Golden Retrievers have to continually chase down a ball and bring it back, or that Border Collies have to herd sheep (and sometimes people Razz

). That's what they're bred for, and no matter how far removed from their original role they are they're still instinctively bound to follow their genetic make up.

They're illegal for a reason, just google "child+maim+pitbull" (ridiculous amount of hits).

Coincidence?

I think not.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:13 am

I don't see why they should be illegal.
It's like saying that guns should be illegal because they were designed to kill.

But I agree that they ARE dangerous. They should always be with their leach and muzzle. At least in France it's the case.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:16 am

Personally speaking, I don't see why anyone wants or needs to own an illegal dog breed. I think you're only inviting trouble, if not from the dog itself then from the Police or RSPCA.

I appreciate that yours is kind, gentle and a good pet.
Trouble is, in many cases where these dogs attack children, the first thing the owners say is that the dog was kind, gentle, and a good pet up until the attack. They usually have no idea why the dog snapped and turned on someone. Of course, most never do attack, but you have to face the fact that when they do snap, they are a perfectly designed killing machine for other small animals / humans.

So just a quick question: Why an illegal breed? Were there not any legal breeds out there that you liked?

PS: Despite my views, I'm glad he's okay now. Smile

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:37 am

bertrand79 wrote:

It's like saying that guns should be illegal because they were designed to kill.

Guns ARE illegal without a license, and for precisely that reason.
They can kill people...!!

To follow the analogy of guns.
Would you keep a loaded gun in a child's bedroom, feeling that it was safe to do so "because it hasn't gone off before, and if it is left alone it will be harmless"...?

If a child is subsequently killed or maimed, then how flimsy is the reasoning of, "well its never happened before".

These dogs have been declared illegal for a very good reason.
Its because they have the potential to maim and kill, and when/if one of these dogs attack, it is damn near impossible to get back under control.

The situation is made worse because the majority of people that own this type of illegal dog are typically the irresponsible, uneducated dregs of society that couldn't give a tinker's cuss about anybody else.
The most important thing to them is boosting their bravado, even to the extent of running the risk that a child could have their life ruined by their illegal dog.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:41 am

Pit Bull owners always say their dog is the sweetest, gentlest, well behaved family pet and 99% of the time that's probably true. But the statistics speak for themselves. You may say that a badly raised and trained Jack Russell is equally capable of attacking and causing devastating injuries or even death when provoked but I've yet to see any reports. I can find PLENTY of horror stories about Pit Bulls whose owners always say "but he was such a lovely family dog until he chewed off my kid's face". Pit Bulls were bred to fight and kill and altough they may not be used for that purpose any longer (although I have my doubts in some cases) I believe that genetically they are predisposed to sudden and unpredictable aggression and as such I have no idea why anyone would chose to own one when there are countless other types of dog out there that you can take out and exercise in public legally and without the constant worry of (a) being prosecuted and (b) the dog suddenly attacking another dog or, God forbid, a child. They are illegal for a reason. Why not just accept that and pick another breed? God knows there's enough abandoned and unwanted (legal) dogs out there in desperate need of a good home.

I'm sorry if my opinion doesn't support yours but you did ask.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:14 pm

I used to be quite afraid of dogs.
It goes better (in fact I will buy one as soon as I have moved in my new house), but there are some I will NEVER trust. N-E-V-E-R.
Pit Bulls and Rottweillers are of this kind.

Those dogs are made to kill, or at least badly injure.

My greatest fear would be to let my child alone with a dog and then something bad happens.
I would not do it even with a Jack Russel, or a Chihuahua.
It would be simply horrible to think my child as lost half of his face because "this little doggy was always so cute and nice".
I would feel guilty for the rest of my life.

Your dog may be as kind as you think it is, you never know when it could become crazy.
Train your dog as well and as often as you want, something is always possible.
You don't have control over it.

I liked the comparison with a gun.
It's exactly the same.
If it's illegal, even if the decision to do so was taken in haste, there are reasons.
Yes dogs may bite.
All sort probably do, but not all sorts are illegal.
Only a few bite to kill.
Pit's and Rott's are counted in.

However, I'm glad yours is better, and I just hope nothing will ever happen.
Because your dog would be killed, and you'll be in the Sh*t for a while.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:02 pm

U. Sir Name wrote:

And I wish they were in the U.S. It's no coincidence that a large percentage of maulings by dogs are done by Pit Bulls. They are genetically predisposed to agressive behavior. You never know what will set them off.

Would you say that about certain races of people who commit more crimes than others? That's a foolish statement and I think it's ridiculous.

Quote:

You say he's frendly, etc, yeah right, wait till it turns, and trust me IT WILL ATTACK. I,ve heard all the stories about these bloody things, and we read about kids with half there faces missing. And the idiots that own them always say the same thing, Its not a pure breed dog it's a cross breed..

Another really stupid statement. IT WILL ATTACK? Are you a dog trainer, breeder, researcher, etc? I am pretty sure that the vast majority of pit bulls never attack a single person. I would like to see that stats that show that these dogs will inevitably attack a small child, as you clearly state. Why should we "trust you"? What credentials do you have for making a statement like that? Have you been attacked? Or, have you seen a few stories about them on CNN or Fox News? Rolling Eyes

I don't agree with you owning an illegal dog. But I do agree that you should take him to the vet if he gets sick. It's not fair to the dog to sit in pain because of a decision you made, to own an illegal dog.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:18 pm

Quote:

That's a foolish statement and I think it's ridiculous.

In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks.

From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences.

That comes from www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%20Statistics/DogBiteStatistics.html

Go check the facts yourself.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:24 pm

Simba wrote:

Guns ARE illegal without a license, and for precisely that reason.

So they're not illegal if you have a licence Smile

I come across many people here with guns : hunters, police men, soldiers (yes we see some even in the metropolitan... Sad

) and probably many others.

On the contrary, for example Cocaïne IS illegal. No licence can make it legal.

Anyway I don't feel like entering this debate... I hate dogs, this is purely irrationnal so I'm not feeling objective here...

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:47 pm

Okay, I am going to use your logic to "prove" something else. This is strictly an example used to debunk poor logic. This following are facts that are found on the internet and I want to prove what horrible, dangerous and offensive logic is being used here.

Population as of July 2001 (from www.census.gov)

Total Male Population: 140,016,603
White Men: 113,803,014 (81.3%)
Black Men: 17,245,702 (12.3%)

According to The Bureau of Justice Statistics (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm) the following are facts:

Men who will spend time in state or federal prison:

White Men: 6,714,380
Black Men: 5,518,620

SO, while black males make up a only 12.3% of the population, they make up nearly as many prisoners as white males, who make up 81.3% of the popoulation. So, what would your response to that be?

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:59 pm

Quote:

who make up 81.3% of the MALE population

and for the rest I stay away from this subject as we're getting political here Laughing

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 1043

Well, if we are completely disregarding genetics, then it must be something to do with their environment. The socio-economic bracket in which a lot of them live, especially regarding gang culture in said bracket. I would also say that the leo's might be slightly racist.

On a lighter note, it would also seem you are 4-12 times better off as a black male than you are a pitbull regarding your chance of committing a crime.

Yay for statistics.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:05 pm

Jojo you knob. WTF has a Pitbull got to do with the US prison population? There's a bit of a difference between the human race and the canine world. Not with some of the women you go after, granted, but you simply can't use that as an example.

Pitbulls are dangerous and that's a fact.
If I had one, I'd set it on you.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:07 pm

bill2 wrote:

and for the rest I stay away from this subject as we're getting political here Laughing

My comment is not a political one at all. My comment is to show what kind of reasoning the poster was using. It's bad reasoning. I was not putting that out there as a topic of discussion. I was putting it out there to prove a point. I just picked a subject that would really make people think. And, I simply put up facts from government websites. It is not political at all. I was showing flawed logic. My statement is that pitbulls that are dangerous are dangerous because of the way they are raised. That is a fact.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:14 pm

Now play nice, don't make me stop the car and come back there....

Back on topic or it goes in the bin.

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 1043

I agree with jo-jo to an extent. If the animal is raised by an owner who knows what they are doing, if the dog knows it's place in the world, then it's not going to bite.

They are illegal because, there is no exam for owners, anyone can buy one. If they do bite, then their jaws are designed to inflict the most damage possible. You see bad ownership with almost all breeds of dog. People without free time buying greyhounds or other high energy dogs.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:27 pm

This is a potentially volatile topic, so lets ensure that it stays on topic and doesn't drift into totally unrealated areas, OK..?

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:34 pm

With regards to Scambo's case, I think he has developed a very close relationship with this dog and should not go and "have the bloody thing put down before it attacks some poor person and you end up where you belong, IN JAIL". BTW, I find that an insensitive comment.

I think Scambo should make sure he has full control over the dog, and has safety precautions just in case in that rare moment, as Roy says, that firework goes off and the dog is spooked.

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