Some how frauded but not sure how - Suggestions welcome

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 01 Oct 2008 Posts: 2

I've been lurking here for years and been occasionally baiting. I never really get a bite since I'm usually over the top with sarcasm and such.

Anyway, it's sorta funny that on the day I decide to hit this forum and catch up, I find a merchant who got scammed was given a 419 scammer local to me (in a database) as the phone number for me...

Here's my story...
I got a call while on a plane to DC that my card was detected for fraud by my bank. When I called them, they had already placed a suspension on my ATM/Visa card. I went in and they printed out the last 2 months of activity and it was easy to spot.

$1 for colon clensing, $53 at the San Diego Zoo (on the day I was in the air or airport from 5am till 6pm), etc. So I fill out their paperwork and sign. I think , "OK, it's over"

A week later, today, I log in and see three more charges with yesterday as a post date. I start calling at 8pm Pacific and actually get through to 2 of the 3. Also, on my porch, I start receiving the fradulently ordered stuff (how to make money on the internet, colon pills, etc). Now I'm really concerned because it's one thing to know my ATM, and another to also know where I live. I "sorta tricked" the last guy into telling me the number they used. It was 760-643-1774.

So I do a reverse NPA NXX lookup (I used to work in telco) and it's (of course) not me, <snip>.

Quote:

William Schubert
760-643-1774
2732 JACARANDA DR
Oceanside, CA 92056

according to http://www.directory-assistance.net/peoplesearch.php

<snip> So now I'm really curious. I google the address and find "artists against 419 scams" listing all of his information as a known scam.

http://db.aa419.org/fakebanksview.php?key=24925

Quote:

Domain Name:VMT-LIMITED.INFO
Created On:23-Jan-2008 15:22:11 UTC
Last Updated On:23-Jan-2008 15:22:12 UTC
Expiration Date:23-Jan-2009 15:22:11 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:MIT (R141-LRMS)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:C120103741343876
Registrant Name:William Schubert
Registrant Organization:William Schubert
Registrant Street1:2732 Jacaranda Ct
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Oceanside
Registrant State/Province:CA
Registrant Postal Code:92056
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.7608091156
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:[email protected]
Admin ID:D12010878923748
Admin Name:William Schubert
Admin Organization:William Schubert
Admin Street1:2732 Jacaranda Ct
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Oceanside
Admin State/Province:CA
Admin Postal Code:92056
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.7608091156

So now I'm really, really curious and asking for your help. Should I call this guy? If so, what do I say? AA419 says to NOT contact since they're known criminals, but why not? What can they do besides get mad? They've already stolen from me. I'm a 220lb male with military training and firearms, so I'm not too concerned about making a petty thief angry.

How do you think they got my ATM and billing address for an account only 9 months old, 1 card in existence (never stolen), and used locally for POS sales at merchants I frequent VERY often (cafe at work, Marine Corp Depot gas station and exchange). The bank said the transactions posted as "card present" in many different cities (san diego and arizona in the same day as one example), yet when I talk to the merchant's customer service they state, "website purchase" and no security code.

I'm really concerned about the billing address being known since I've been extremely careful in the 12 years of being on the internet to keep my name NOT associated with my address. Google doesn't bring it up with any combination of my street name with my given name (surname, etc).

Mod edit to remove personal info - Eight

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:36 am

In short, your card has been cloned. This is done at a POS, where the merchant swipes your card through a special reader... (this isn't as obvious as you may think, the special readers are tiny and can sit happily on the "authorised" swipe reader right in front of you).
In addition, you have been the victim of identity theft where the thieves have used part of your identity, probably easily gained from your ATM card info.

Should you call the guy? No. Call your local law enforcement to see if they have a fraud department who can look into it for you.
Next, go back to the ATM card company and tell them the latest developments. To be honest, I'm shocked that they have not yet cancelled the card and issued you a new one. Insist that they do so.

I appreciate that you're a big guy with guns, but still, stay away from messing with these people, they know far too much about you. It doesn't matter how big you are or what calibre your weapon, things will still get very messy if you make them angry and they send a couple of big boys round for a chat.

I'd normally suggest a visit to scamwarners, however in this case where identity theft and card cloning are involved, it's not really a scam and is outside their normal sphere of operation. Approaching law enforcement and the ATM company is the way ahead.

I'm concerned that you've mentioned personal details in your post, so I'll ask a mod to remove them for your safety.
Good luck with this, I hope you get it resolved as soon as possible.

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:13 am

Welcome to Eater, hondaf3. Smile

I'd echo what Mugatu said about the safety aspects and I have edited the personal information from your post, to be on the safe side.

A cloned card is a likely cause. Another possible explanation for this is that some mail regarding this account (possibly even a card) has gone astray between the bank and you and has been used to clone the card or make purchases onlline - that would explain how they got billing information. You can check with your bank what they have sent you and when, to see whether anything is missing, and if it is, I'd report to the postal authorities as well as the police.

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:07 am

Just to echo what the others have said, insist the bank close that card and issue a new one. Provide the packages that are showing up to local law enforcement or the postal inspector or both.

If your bank will not issue a new ATM/CC tell them you want to close the account and change banks. That is piss poor customer service and bad fraud prevention on their part.

As for the details AA's data base it is very likely this guy is also a victim of fraud. Often the web sites set up by these guys use false registration information and stolen CC information.

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:23 am

I too am amazed the bank didn't cancel the card immediately after you brought this problem to their attention. It happened to me and the card was cancelled there and then, in fact they insisted upon it. While it can be a real hassle to change your card number it's the only way to stop the fraudster in his tracks. Other than that, the advice upthread is all good so I hope you can sort things out.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 01 Oct 2008 Posts: 2

Eight...I think you nailed it. It's been a long time (yes, only 9 months) but I'm wanting to say they had to send me a 2nd card when I first opened this account. I did a lot of reading on ScamWarners.com, Wikipedia, etc, before posting up, and none of it seemed to explain in my circumstance how they got the ATM cloned AND my address. However, if my vague memory serves correct, it would have been the first missing card. There's no billing info on the ATM/Visa card's magnetic strip, right?

Yes, they actually cancelled it before I got back from my trip. I was forced (and it's fine with me) to order a new card. I asked for a "branch delivery", so I'll go into my local bank branch to physically pick up the card. While talking to the ATM/VISA support last night, they said that with an authorization code issued prior to the cancellation, charges can and will still go through. So they started charging on the 25th, the card was canceled by the 28th, and the later charges posted on the 29th. Furthermore, the 2 merchants who were defrauded that I got a hold of were both selling subscriptions. So I asked the ATM cust service, "Can then further transactions, say in another month, still go through with this previously issued auth code?" He answered that it's possible. Not good. I'm going by my local bank branch to talk to them more about this. I had this problem with a gym in the 90's that wouldn't stop charging me even though I'd closed and changed accounts to try and stop it. I had to finally close all accounts with the bank. I don't want to lose this bank I'm with now.

I did also contact my local PD this morning. They said to bring bank statements and all information to the LEO desk to file the report. I'll be doing that today as well.

I thought most of what I'd posted was publicly available, except my last name. However, I figured there wasn't too much harm in that.

Do any of you think it's a coincidence they started on the first business trip I've taken in a year?

Baiting Guru Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 2628

Could be co incidence that you were away.

Contacting your bank, their fraud department and local police is the way to go. Taking things into your own hands is dangerous and foolish.

Cloning cards is alive and well, there's been a spate of it near me recently
Scotsman

Baiting Guru Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Posts: 2531 Location: AU

I had it done to me once.
I narrowed it down to 1 source. used the cc on a cruise ship and lost site for a moment. in the casino while getting cash out. They tried to spend $1000 IN tokyo. Luckily i was already maxed out and they could not complete the transaction. I found out by the banks fraud center giving me a call. I am very surprised your bank is not onto it.

I told the cruise company but they were not interested. they were infact very rude.

Trophy Videos · Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:34 pm

@hondaf3 - That's good advice up there. Perhaps LEO might even get an arrest of the thief. I once had a $1.00 charge on my card from some company in Estonia. My bank caught it right away, and called me, and got me a new card, before any big charges got posted. Someone there had a computer program that just tried combinations of CC numbers on websites that do not require the security code, and found my number by chance. They flashed my account with the $1 charge to see if it was a good number.

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:54 pm

I've posted this before but it's worth remembering.

If you notice a small charge, say $10, from a place you can't remember it's worth checking. The scammers put through a small "test" charge to make sure the stolen card info is still "live" and if the card isn't cancelled the go ahead on a spending frenzy. That's how I ended up "buying" all those airline tickets. I saw a small charge, couldn't remember where it was from (some of the details on the statements are very vague), ignored it and BAM, the card was maxed out 6 weeks later.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 01 Oct 2008 Posts: 2

Thanks again for the replies.

I followed up with the PD and filed the report. They said it has to be tens of thousands before the DA will do anything. Mine was for, so far, a total of about $160.

The part that has me baffled, and now I'll start getting a lot more active in this and other fraud-exposing forums to understand, is this: Why? The $1 test in one or two places is understandable, but this guy(s) went to the San Diego zoo first for about $50. WTF? Most people know if they went to the zoo and would notice it.

Just for giggles, I'll post where they went and what they spent. Maybe it's several people testing the card, but out of the 3 I've called it was all the same local phone number given so I'm assuming its 1 guy.

Identity Truth, IN $1 (thief has a sense of humor?)
IP-Onsupplier $1.95
NETFLIX $9.89 (I don't use them...I download to my XBOX360)
Stamps.Com $1
Bargain Network $1
Gevalia Shipment $28.90
Maxx Supplements $54.95
ISpeedway $9.95
Colon Clense $3.95 (how does a thief NOT think this is a red flag)
Phentremin Direct $5.95
GMP $2.99

So you wasted all this time for about $150. One thing of note, when I called Indentity Truth, they said they run a AUTHORIZATION CHARGE for $1, but then post a much higher amount 2 weeks later if the charge isn't reversed.

Anyone else feel the merchants are in on the scam? I owned a store with a credit card machine, so I'm gonna also look into avenues I'm familiar with. I am going to start looking into oversight or governance over POS machines and credit card policies. If the industry isn't regulating themselves, maybe we need to contact some congressmen about "helping them".

To me, this is the same as the illicit activities (without actual crimes) we now have laws against. For example, if a bunch of guys are hanging out in a bad area with obvious gang affiliation clothes, it's obvious they're not there to discuss the weather and gang laws allow PD's to enforce harsh measures. Likewise, if these guys are passing hundreds, if not thousands, of charges that ultimately get reversed or end in fraud, then they're complicit to the crime.

Thoughts?

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:03 pm

Quote:

Anyone else feel the merchants are in on the scam?

No. Proper merchants are keen to keep their businesses legitimate.
Here in the UK, where businesses have been found to be "skimming" credit cards, succesful investigations prove that it's almost always down to a lone employee. That person is usually an immigrant worker who is part of a gang.

It happens a lot with garages (i.e. "filling stations" in US parlance) here.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:53 am

Not everyone using a cloned credit card is a master criminal - some of them are not that bright or have just acquired the card to buy ordinary stuff like the rest of us, including trips to the zoo. Smile

They won't necessarily be thinking about how to stay under the radar. In any event, there's a very quick turnover with cloned or stolen cards, so they will not be that bothered about alerting you or the card company with unusual purchases over a few days, because by the time you spot it, they'll have got rid of the card to someone else. The longer the card has been in circulation amongst the criminal community, the les value it has and the more likely the current handler of it is to be nicked with it. That's why freshly cloned or stolen cards selll for more than old ones. If yours was stolen in the post as I thought might be the case, it'll be 9 months old by now, and with a tail-end Charlie buying everyday items.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:55 am

Quote:

WTF? Most people know if they went to the zoo and would notice it.

Most people would notice if they had their colon cleansed. Shocked

You could tip off the clinic and give them your card info to check against. If he comes back, they can call the police, and he isn't going anywhere fast. Now that would be a comedy arrest. Smile

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:56 pm

@RoyCropper, you haven't been reading your spam mail, have you? Colon cleansers - supplements you take with your vitamins, etc. - are all the rage now, and my junk email is full of ads for them, right next to the Viagra, the R...o...l...e...x watches, and the 8.2 megapixel cameras. (I got 6 camera mails within a 1-hour period. Shocked

)

Master Baiter Joined: 07 Oct 2008 Posts: 116

This has happened to me once. The debit card number was stolen by a fast food employee, who sold it online. The trail goes cold because my local PD does not investigate this kind of theft. Whoever had the number was using it to buy small things and generate commissions for themselves. the stuff came to me in the mail.

The reason the bank doesn't close the card right away is because they're trying to recover the funds. You can ask them to stop, if you don't care about the money. Sometimes it isn't very much.

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