I'm a victim

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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:42 pm

Yesterday we were checking the Credit card statement and noticed a mobile phone top-up that neither of us had made. I called the CC company and told them and got a few details and it was done one evening when we were at home watching TV. They also said they had declined another couple of low value transactions and asked if I had tried (I would have remembered if my card was declined as I don't use it a lot).
We are always really careful with our CCs and shield our pins when tapping them in so we're at a loss to know how the thief got the card details; also, it doesn't fit the usual pattern whereby the crook tries a very small purchase like itunes and then goes for big stuff like cameras, phones , laptops etc. I have an idea who it might be but I've not said anything because it would be really upsetting if it were true.
The CC company have cancelled our cards now but I am wondering if they will try to find out about who scammed them, and if they do, will they take action ? It would be good to know, so that I can rule out the worst option.

Baiting Guru Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 11857 Location: UK

Hi Eamonn, please don't be offended, but do you have kids who might know the number and decided to top their mobile phone up, or anyone who has stayed in your home recently who might have come across it?

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:50 pm

That's strange, but it can only happen at two ends, the CC company wasn't careful or their computer got hacked (like a few months ago in the States) or some one goes through your garbage. All assuming you don't leave your wallet unattended somewhere, like the Gym or so. You're Safe, the CCC takes the loss and isn't interested who did it until they find a pattern and think they can stop a big leak with it.

Edit: Scam Patroller, you're brave, I didn't wanna go there, but it is an option you don't want to think about.

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:58 pm

or another angle is..
what online shop have you recently made a purchase from??

their online security could of been compromised and hackers obtained you CC info
from there.if you have made any online purchases,think about what e mail addy you used as they would of been recorded aswell as other personal info.

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:10 pm

Scam Patroller wrote:

Hi Eamonn, please don't be offended, but do you have kids who might know the number and decided to top their mobile phone up, or anyone who has stayed in your home recently who might have come across it?

My son, no. Visitors, maybe, that's the worry. I quite often leave my wallet on table.

I don't think it's online fraud, as they dont conform to the usual patter as described. The other option is the local Indian restaurant had to use one of the old machines the other day as thier machine was down - maybe someone got hold of the paper copy of the receipt (could they top up with that ?)

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:19 pm

E:

If they had the card and the CCV security number on the back they could have. I suspect the server took the card from the table to run the transaction...

It would have to be someone that got access to the physical card probably to get the CCV number on the back.

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:53 pm

It was a takeaway and I was with him when he put it through the machine so he didn't have the cv2 code.

I'ts looking more and more like an "inside" job. that saddens me greatly Crying or Very sad

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:58 pm

Something similar happened to me with my ATM card. I stopped at a gas station and tried to use the card at the pump. It said I had to go inside. Grumbling, I followed all the other grumbling patrons inside - none of the pumps would take the cards. The person in the station took the cards to the back room to "run them" and unlocked the pumps. Everything worked fine.

Two weeks later my bank called me and said there was something strange in the pattern of usage of my card. Seems that I used the card at my neighborhood Wal-Mart just 5 minutes before it was also used at a Wal-Mart 100 miles away. I did not lose a penny on this, as my bank allowed me to determine which transactions were truly mine and which were fraudulent. (The fraudulent transactions started the evening after I had been to the gas station.) And, of course, they cancelled that card and issued me another one.

Although the station was just around the corner from me, I never went there again.

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:13 pm

It's unpleasant to think that it may be a friend or relative that has done this, I'm sure. Sad

If you want to be sure either way, your credit card company can presumably tell you which phone provider it was and give you a transaction id. From that, the phone company can establish which mobile was being topped up. You might run into difficulty extracting the information from the phone company, even though it's your card that was used, but there are ways to require them to provide it, either to you or to the police - that may be further than you're willing to go to find out, of course. Sad

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:30 pm

Eight wrote:

but there are ways to require them to provide it, either to you or to the police - that may be further than you're willing to go to find out, of course. Sad

I'd like to know the number, but if it turns out to be who I think,then I don't want to involve the police; however, the mobile co or CC co might have other ideas.

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:19 pm

some sites do not need the cvv number that why CC fraud is so high.
the mobile obviously is a PAYG and if it was used in a local store to purchase airtime they would of had to use you 4 digit pin number.
your CC company would know which shop it was purchased from and all stores have cctv cameras on the tills.
time,location = culprit and should be a good picture of them on tape too.
good luck

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:26 pm

If it is your son, as you suspect, I feel for you. But you must find out, to help teach him that this is not the way.

Hopefully, the bank will allow a little parental intervention, especially if the amount charged was low and you agreed to pay for it.

When I did my "awesome" screwup in life, my father told me everything is allowed one really big f*c*up - this was mine (as he paid my bail). I learned!

Best of luck....

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:55 pm

It's not my son.
That much I do know because if he wanted a mobile top-up, he's only have to ask (that and the fact that he has no real interest in money - there's at least £100 in his bedroom and a couple of grand in the bank).
It may be a relative who stayed with us a little while back.
I think it was an online or over the phone top-up.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:35 am

Do you know what company the top up was for? Would that tell you if it was the relative?

As for prosecution the cost of the top up is likely not enough to interest the CC company as they will just cram the charge back to the vendor.

Suck if it is your relative.

Could still be the take away vendor though.... presumably they turned the card over to verify the siggy? If so the security number is right there next to your siggy....

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:25 am

The Man wrote:

Do you know what company the top up was for? Would that tell you if it was the relative?

As for prosecution the cost of the top up is likely not enough to interest the CC company as they will just cram the charge back to the vendor.

Suck if it is your relative.

Could still be the take away vendor though.... presumably they turned the card over to verify the siggy? If so the security number is right there next to your siggy....

Yes I know the company and it matches the relative (but then there's a lot of people use that co).
As for the restaurant, I doubt if they would check my sig as they know me well - I use them 3-4 times a month.

I guess I'm never going to know which is a shame as I'd really like to rule one person out

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:01 am

Quote:

I guess I'm never going to know which is a shame as I'd really like to rule one person out

You're smarter than that, you can bait. Twisted Evil

Get a new cc Wink

and leave it in prepared wallet with hidden video cam taping with person of choice in the same room after discussing the advantages of this new cc.
Apologize after faked cellphone call, but you'll be back in 20 minutes and leave.
But then you know and then?

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jan 2007 Posts: 2922

I don't know if you wish to-but you can run the possible numbers through here http://www.numberingplans.com/?page=analysis&sub=phonenr ** That'll tell you what phone company the phone is from and then see if the top up purchase matches.

** You may need to put the international dialling code in front so +1 for a USA number etc etc.

Where i used to live it was well known that at least one restaurant had problems with their patrons cards being skimmed, so a restaurant is not uncommon.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:49 am

eamonn wrote:

The other option is the local Indian restaurant had to use one of the old machines the other day as thier machine was down - maybe someone got hold of the paper copy of the receipt (could they top up with that ?)

Yes, it could be from your local restaurant.
I recently had some weird charges on my cc after paying at a restaurant with the old fashioned machine.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:27 am

If you know the phone number of the person you suspect, surely you can ask the cellphone company if number xxxxxx was topped up recently using your CC? Or will they use the catch-all "it's privacy innit mate" to be as uncooperative as possible.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:39 am

If you know the number, you could just call him and see (or better, hear) who's there.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:59 am

I found a £50 Orange mobile top up on my bank statement, which was odd seeing as I'm not on Orange.

I stronly suspect staff my local garage, they sell the topups and are awash with customers' cc details.

It cost me a lunchtime at my bank filling in a crime report, but the £50 was credited back to my acount.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:18 am

E also remember to follow up with the CC company and dispute the charge in writing. Cannot remember where you are from, but here in the US you have to dispute in writing. Then the charge is removed from the card until they can prove you charged it. They might well send you the sales slip if it was a "swipe" transaction. If it was over the net you might get some IP details?

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:30 pm

I know you don't want to have it confirmed that it was your relative, but ...

Have you considered asking that relative? I know - it's touchy because the relative may take offense at your question, but I have always felt that if I feel someone (especially someone close to me) has done something of which I disapprove, it's best to ask, just between ourselves.

If they deny it, you know no more than you do now, but no less either. If you approach the conversation in the right manner, they may just confess to you.

I dunno -- just a thought.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:19 pm

T: While the conversation is uncomfortable there are ways to have it without just calling them up and asking. Just talking about the fact that the CC was used in an unauthorized manner may be enough for someone to tell if the person is lying, or might just make them confess.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:37 pm

Eamonn

sorry to read your story, but i am happy it wasn't worse.

if i may i can relay my story to you and a bit of insight on how the local law and CC companies look at this;

My missus and i were visiting scotland a few years back and we visited a Harley davidson dealership to buy a couple shirts for a co-worker. when the clerk ran my CC he told us the funds were not available. I found that odd, because I only used the card when we traveled and I had confirmed there was $4500 on the card before we left on our holiday.

when we returned to my sis-in-laws (northern england) I immediately called the cc company. the cc company stated someone had purchased 2 rt tickets to bankok and there was another charge at a resturant, not far from where i live, the resturant bill was $1200.00. when I contacted the resturant they informed me they remembered the party, 10 people ordering whatever they wanted off of the menu. when I asked how the person paid, i was told the strangest thing, the person didn't have the card, he only had the number and insisted on entering it manually. i also asked if the person had shown ID and she assured me he had. i can only assume it was something he created on his computer.

upon further investigation, I also called the airline to determine if the tickets had been used and they had but they would only give the names of the passengers to the investigating LE.

I called the local LE fraud and forgery division, to inform them of the dinner party and the airline tickets. i was told, they do not investigate that type of fraud and there was nothing they could do for me.

I worked very closely with the CC investigator and she was very helpful, but in the end she stated they rarely investigate/prosecute these types of frauds. she told me it is almost impossible to get a conviction and the costs associated with the investigation are much too high.

almost a perfect crime if one was so inclined. I could never determine how they got the number but i did learn it is very easy to get CC numbers.