419 Scams are Syndicate run

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 21 Sep 2008 Posts: 1

I have been browsing through these threads with great amusement and I think you are all doing really amazing things that, on the whole, are probably counterbalancing the fraud coming out of Nigeria.

It just strikes me as odd that in the various threads that I read, nobody seems to realize that you are not dealing with individuals. These 'lads' are all part of fraternities and crime syndicates already. They are the equivalent of indentured factory workers, probably working to pay off some incredibly large debt for an imaginary school that taught them how to perform the 419 scams, drilling into their minds that while not completely legitimate, it is morally acceptable because the targets are rich, stupid and evil or whatever. When these guys get payed, the money is almost certain to be claimed by whatever organization they work for without much at all being returned to the shills working the phones and internet terminals.

To make matters worse, you should assume that individual 'lad's may be yanked to different jobs and have substitutes put in place if a scam isn't going well or if whoever in charge thinks that a replacement is necessary.

Understanding how and why this must be syndicate controlled should be considered very important knowledge before getting involved in playing with these people. The first reason for 'why' is quite simple: There is a great deal of money in these scams ($1.5 billion?). When an industry produces such rewards, especially in a poor third world country that is already gangster controlled, how do you think the industry will form? Of course; it will be organized crime that controls it. Whoever already has criminal enterprises with power in these cities in Nigeria would have very quickly seized the turf, ensured that lone operators can not and do not operate and probably have taken possession of many Internet cafes as well as print shops, money remittance businesses and so forth. They will have set up front businesses to act as schools and other legitimate apparatus of the enterprise and they should generally be considered organized and dangerous.

When you are toying with the individuals that are playing the scam, you are toying with what really amounts to a customer relations officer of a powerful crime syndicate. Now, it may look unorganized, and clearly these people are not the brightest bulbs in the closet, but I am certain that they will not be able to divulge their syndicate affiliations. That would be against the code and would likely result in their disappearance. So they have to look like lone operators. That would be the way it would have to work. Just remember: THEY ARE NOT

I read with amusement, surprise and sometimes dread, the thread Stanley's Great Bait and I scratched my head at the confusion that many of the baiters seemed to be having at the fact that Stanley's email was taken over by another baiter or that he had nice shoes or that he seemed able to respond to so many different baiters, or that he kept coming up with the money to go on safaris, etc...

He was part of a powerful crime syndicate. Whenever Stanley's boss decided to take a step in some direction, Stanley was miraculously able to do it. This is the key to understanding that situation. It is also the key to understanding why Stanley did not kidnap Dan, but returned saying that Dan was a small child in a fraternity and that his master has the document.

That wasn't code that Stanley was giving. Stanley wasn't surprised by this. Stanley knows all about the fraternities (syndicates) and how they operate. He knows the boundaries and he knows these things are handled delicately and not by people like himself. He knows, because he is also a member (and it isn't the fictitious Mr J in Mexico that he bows allegiance to, although just how Mr J and the rest are seen by various affiliates of Stanley within his organization would be quite amusing to see).

I would urge those who participate in these baiting games to think outside of the box a little bit. You are dealing with Nigerian mafia, not lone wolves. Lone wolves would be ran out of the Internet cafes, roughed up, robbed and worse. When you deal with them, remember that. Use that knowledge to your advantage.

And be careful. These mafias can be powerful and they can have reach (yes, even outside of Nigeria. Remember, this is a $1.5 billion industry, right?). Do not let your personal numbers out. Hide your own ips behind proxies, block Nigerian IPs to this website.

It isn't good to be paranoid, but being careful is good advice here. Probably, nothing will ever happen. But don't make it easy for them to find you, just in case.

Be well and fight the good fight.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:05 pm

Quote:

And be careful. These mafias can be powerful and they can have reach (yes, even outside of Nigeria. Remember, this is a $1.5 billion industry, right?). Do not let your personal numbers out. Hide your own ips behind proxies,

I can assure you that safety is at the very top of the agenda here.

Quote:

in the various threads that I read, nobody seems to realize that you are not dealing with individuals

I can also assure you that we are well aware that some scammers work for gangs, although there are lone scammers too, and we are generally good at spotting which is which. Many of the members here have years of experience in dealing with scammers, of all types, from all nations where scams originate.

A lot of people are coming into this forum lately basing their views on just the one bait... there are thousands more being carried out at the same time. Try not to be too blinkered by reading up on just that one bait.

Please also remember that scammers are not only from Nigeria. We bait scammers from Russia, the Ukraine, Thailand, the UK, as well as several African nations. It's not a Nigerian problem.

Anyway, thanks for your concerns and wishes, and welcome to 419eater. Smile

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:18 pm

You have obviously never heard of Mr G0mer Il Capo di Tutti Capo - or something like that.

I'm just jesting. Some are parts of larger groups, many aren't, and we get involved impersonating them and putting ourselves in the middle of their scams or, in the case of Mr G0mer, acting as a Mr Big. At that level you can extract information they would only tell their Mommy and a better idea can be gained of their structure and set up, if they have any.

If a Lad takes the trouble to (mail) bomb a baiter it's often a sign that they are part of a larger group, with the division of labour to have one of them retaliate, as loners only have time to scam and see no profit in dispute. The best baiter retaliation is then to disrupt their phone lines with lots of calls.

We maybe be funsters, but we are thinking funsters too.

Baiting Guru Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 5905

Welcome

We are more than aware that scammers work in gangs it is just easier when describing a bait to talk as if the character is a 'real' person. We are more than aware that sometimes the same character can be played by a different gang member and we get passed up and down the chain depending on how difficult we are being.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:17 pm

Hi Makelot.

Welcome to Eater.

Although I wouldn't call the gangs of lads "powerful crime syndicates", you're quite right that a lot of lads don't work alone.

Have a quick read through the forums and you'll find out how these gangs are structured and how they work. Their postions even have names - from the Catcher at the bottom to the Oga at the top.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:24 pm

I was scared to start baiting before - now I'm visibly shaken.

Shocked

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:38 pm

If you follow the very simple rules, anyone can be totally safe.

The death threats I have received I must put on my eaterspace some time - if I have enough room. Very Happy

Many involve parts of my anatomy dear to me, some are juju curses and some are directed at family members and I have even told my Mom about them - but I know I am more likely to be hit by a lemon popsicle shot at me from Mars.

95% (wild guess) of scammers, if I sent them my photo, a map, my address and the airfare would spend it down at the local bar, but you can never be sure about the 5% so we always preach to be secure.

You may notice that we often google new members nicknames, not to be nosey, but to check they haven't made a mistake before they have even joined.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:22 pm

With the frequency of baiting going on Vs. the number of gangs/syndicates, do you think we baiters are making enough of a dent in business?

I've been wondering this to myself lately -- are there enough baiters out there compared to real victims to make a dent?

In other words, do you think that we are doing enough to cause the "Tony Soprano" of Nigeria (or whatever nation) to notice and organize some kind of grand counter-attack?

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:27 pm

Based on the fact that this site has dealt with DDOS attacks on more than one occasion, I would say that yes, the efforts of baiters have made enough difference to tick one or two people off.

But I don't think anyone who has been safe needs to worry about a knock on their door anytime soon.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:42 pm

There's no doubting that we make a difference - we close down fake sites, we report bank accounts used in scams and thereby provide intelligence to LEO's the world over, we help victims and we screw the minds and work of many, many scammers.

How much of a difference is impossible to tell - but we make a difference.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:43 pm

Quote:

And be careful. These mafias can be powerful and they can have reach (yes, even outside of Nigeria. Remember, this is a $1.5 billion industry, right?). Do not let your personal numbers out. Hide your own ips behind proxies, block Nigerian IPs to this website.

Welcome to Eater.

An interesting, thought provoking and educating first post. Excuse me while I pinch myself. Yes it hurts and I'm still alive.

419 scammers are everywhere and not all of them are Nigerian. Excuse me if that comes across as blunt, but I think you need to read around here a bit more before you start denigrating Nigeria like that.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:54 pm

microburst wrote:

With the frequency of baiting going on Vs. the number of gangs/syndicates, do you think we baiters are making enough of a dent in business?

IMHO, the amount of damage we do doesn't matter if we just save one victim.

But say that every one of the 19,000 Eater members has saved just one victim? If the average victim loss of $20k is anything to go by, we've cost the lads $380,000,000 in lost profit.
Not chicken feed in any language.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:10 pm

Makolet wrote:

I have been browsing through these threads with great amusement . . . .

Likewise, Makolet, I have read your thread with great amusement.
Having done so I can say that, having read your thread carefully, thou dost talk through thou bumhole.

You have spouted the greatest tosh that has been posted here for some while.
I'm surprised that you have actually received serious replies from Eater members.

We are often up to our necks with conspiracy theories, but have never heard your 'crime-syndicate' one before.

Oh, and by-the-way, we are quite used to scammers popping in here to educate us.
Thanks. Rolling Eyes

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 5727

Plus the members of this site contribute in a great way to the economy of Chad, so that's something right there.

Since you brought up the Stanley bait, and since I am a part of that bait, allow me to say that while I was surprised that Stanley's account was hacked by anothe scammer, I was not totally shocked. The whole adage of "honor amongst thieves" doesn't apply here. Internet cafe's are full of folks looking to make a buck, and if they hack another lad's account to do this, so be it. I just think it is rather funny that they chose to hack Stanley's account.

I personally doubt that Stanley is part of any great gang. I could of course be wrong, but he strikes me more of an independent operator looking to hit the big time. That's why he was so excited when J offered him that opportunity.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

Quote:

block Nigerian IPs to this website.

No.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:55 pm

For what's worth here is my 2p worth.

Back in the 1980's on the London Underground we had Nigerians coming through with forged tickets and it got so bad, the staff reckoned that there was a school in Nigeria teaching them. There was also a woman pretending to be another woman, when the police phoned the house the women she was pretending to be answered the phone.
All these appeared to be working alone.

The crooks that are working any form of scam whether by post or e-mail are a development from the 1980's and they will continue to be opportunists and evolve with what ever way future technology takes us in communication. Being able to transfer yourself from one place to another, springs to mind.

Eater has the experts who not only are into baiting but are also experts in computor technology but will need in the future baiters who are into higher technology in all fields as Eater also has to evolve, the scams are going to be around for a very long time, unless newer members roll up their sleeves and get stuck in.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:20 pm

A little known fact is that lads write many of their scam letters using
http://www.egowar.com/nigerian_scam_letter_generator.htm
And some baiters get their trophies from http://www.signgenerator.org/scams/nigerian/

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:15 pm

Breddan Butter wrote:

I'm surprised that you have actually received serious replies from Eater members.

Hey, I was in a good mood when I replied. It doesn't happen often, so enjoy it. Laughing

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:37 am

@Makolet - I read with amusement, surprise and sometimes dread your post and specifically the comments about Stanley as I am the original Stanley baiter. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your concern about caution and understanding that we are delaing with criminals ... some of whom could actually be dangerous. We take that seriously and you will see the term "Bait Safe" used often.

However, I think you are giving the lads a tad too much credit. And I am certain you are giving Stanley waaaaaay too much credit. After exchanging hundreds of emails with this guy, I know him as well as any baiter or victim could. He is not part of a crime syndicate. He is a low-life piece of trash that, over the past 5 months, has been carefully deceived into believing our version of reality.

When Stanley had a change of heart ... to travel, to fill in a form or make a recording ... it was not because some crime boss gave him the green light. (Well, J did coach him on the recording for Kim and did pressure him into his rendition of Deep In The Heart of Texas). It was because he could have done it all along and tried to get out of it and finally realized he couldn't get what he was after w/o it. It was because he smelled the money on the other side of the effort and because (perhaps) he got a new credit card or he 'snicked some money from my [his] sister's purse" or (just maybe) he was lying about whatever was preventing him from fulfilling the request in the first place.

Is Stanley part of a gang ... yeah. The Network. He has referred to Mr J as his "Master" in several emails, some of which were to "lads" or to baiters that he believed were unrelated to the Mr J bait. He even (mostly) completed The Network's Membership Info form. Or, maybe not - maybe he doesn't really believe J and The Network exist. Who knows, but I wouldn't bet on it. I've got over 1000 emails, 2 validated safaris and dozens of trophies that suggest he believes something.

The fact of the matter is Stanley - and hordes like him - are liars and fraudsters. They don't have an ounce of concern about their victims. Take a look at Stanley: The Ladcatcher Murders to see how Stanley reacted to the murder and kidnapping of a client's son and granddaughter.

I don't believe a word they say. I don't discount they are criminals. But I also don't give them too much credit for being part of a sophisticated criminal network. Surely, if this was the case, SOMEONE would figure out how to do a simple IP check or mandate the occasional Google search on details revealed in the bait. Had Stanley done this he would have figured out that J wasn't ever in Mexico, that Yoknapatawpha County is fictional and Queen Anne's Revenge, The Trojan Get Your Rocks Off Would Tour and BlackSpot Records don't exist. And he would have dropped me ages ago.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 21 Sep 2008 Posts: 6

Dateline recently did a show on credit card fraud. Stolen credit cards used to buy electronics. The goods shipped to people in the USA. People in the USA then re-shipped the items overseas. All the people in the USA they tracked down, who were re-shipping the items overseas, were also victims of relationship scams. The victims they broadcast were all taken in by the same person or people. In the end they went overseas but never tracked down who was running what Dateline believed to be a sophisticated criminal network.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:44 am

^ If you read around here a bit more, you'll find that we DO know about credit card fraud, we DO know about cheque mules, we DO know about scammers.

Stop trying to convert the believers

Go get stuff printed in your local newspapers, on your local radio stations and television, the same as a lot of us here do. All it takes is a few hours of your time each day/week whatever you want to put into this

Don't come in here and tell us what we already know, read all the forums, then go to www.scamwarners.com, read the forums in there, then you may realise that this forum does know what it is doing

rant over with, back to original scheduled programme

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 21 Sep 2008 Posts: 6

newtech2008 wrote:

Understanding how and why this must be syndicate controlled should be considered very important knowledge before getting involved in playing with these people. The first reason for 'why' is quite simple: There is a great deal of money in these scams ($1.5 billion?). When an industry produces such rewards, especially in a poor third world country that is already gangster controlled, how do you think the industry will form? Of course; it will be organized crime that controls it. Whoever already has criminal enterprises with power in these cities in Nigeria would have very quickly seized the turf, ensured that lone operators can not and do not operate and probably have taken possession of many Internet cafes as well as print shops, money remittance businesses and so forth. They will have set up front businesses to act as schools and other legitimate apparatus of the enterprise and they should generally be considered organized and dangerous.

I think I read this some hours ago. Good job on the cut and paste. Very laddish of you, meaning lazy.

Everyone here is now very scared of the lads. Mission accomplished.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:10 am

Actually, everyone knows the scammers are part of a conspiracy to create a world government and are acting under orders issued by thought-control rays beamed from the so-called "international space station". Oh yes.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:03 am

^^^ Actually, it's the lizard people.
The lads work for them. Their aim is to create a New World Order where everything is 100% risky free.
I heard it was a lad who actually shot Kennedy. The CIA actually have the proof - they keep the lad's WU payment receipt for the hit at Roswell. Shocked

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:19 am

One real truth is that when you contact people on the internet you don't know who you are dealing with. Most baiters here don't know much about each other, and that's taken as the way we operate, and is for each others safety.

If all people realised that you only trust someone after a long period of time on the internet, these problems we deal with would not happen and we would not be able to bait either.

Our advice is always to bait safe, as if we were dealing with a major crime cartel, but invariably the 419 scammers we handle are something less than that, by a long way.

My current scammer would make Woodie Woodpecker appear like an intellectual, but he is just as funny. He has what he calls his 'crew' and I have no doubt he is involved in much petty crime and would get involved in anything that offers the chance to fill his pockets with loot.

The only fearsome fire-spitting gangster I have come across is Mr G0mer, and he is a creation of my imagination.

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