GET A LIFE

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 21 Sep 2008 Posts: 4

I am disgusted at the NPR report about scambaiting. You are no better than the people who you are targeting. Ira made a great point, Americans who are targeted by these scams are also doing it for greed, they invest money at the promise of getting a big payout down the line. If you are so concerned about stopping internet scams, you could concentrate your energy on educating people about these scams. The only people benefiting from this scambaiting are the sick, violent, jobless, most likely racist and clearly xenophobic individuals who make up this community. GET A LIFE.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Posts: 24

People on this website DO spend their time educating people about scams.

How about you get off your high horse and actually take the time to read and learn about scambaiting before forming an opinion.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 21 Sep 2008 Posts: 4

You are right, I am new to this enterprise so the NPR interview is my main source of information. I'm glad that a large part of what you do is education, but the account given on NPR is a pure display of moral bankruptcy and too much free time.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Posts: 24

So what if we do have too much free time?

Would you rather we spent our free time on other hobbies, freeing up the scammers' time to target REAL victims?

The ethos is simple. We get the lads hooked on us so they no longer have time for real victims.

Edit - if you're concerned about the ethics, why not read the sticky?

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:33 pm

TAB wrote:

The only people benefiting from this scambaiting are the sick, violent, jobless, most likely racist and clearly xenophobic individuals who make up this community. GET A LIFE.

To correct your misguided comments I must point out

1) I, nor any other baiters that I know, benefit at all. They spend their own time and money doing this.

2) Sick ? - yes, I retired from work on the grounds of ill health, though I was baiting before that happened.

3) Violent ? - in the defence of my persons, my friends and family and innocent victims - yes, though I do not perform any violence during any of my baits, but that is the good fortune of scammers.

4) Jobless ? - see answer 2

5) Racist - How can that be so ? I never ask about a scammers race or colour at the outset so it appears that you know little about baiting and less about baiters. Scammer victims encompass the world - even Africa too, so that argument is as crass as it is uninformed.

6) Xenophobic - I am nit into Warrior Princesses - but seriously I consider my country to be a craphole. Does that answer your question ? You are presuming that we are all from one country. We are not. We deal with 419 scammers from any part of the world.

If you wish to make informed comments - please stick around and research before you spout vitriol at us, otherwise just go on your merry blinkered way.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 21 Sep 2008 Posts: 4

I'd still like to hear someone explain how victims of these scams are "innocent" Do they not enter into these agreements to recieve a major payout? Are they not entering into what they think is a get rich quick scheme? Seriously....

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:41 pm

TAB wrote:

The only people benefiting from this scambaiting are the sick, violent, jobless, most likely racist and clearly xenophobic individuals who make up this community. GET A LIFE.

Surely there are bigger global issues that you could be spending your moral outrage than this -- maybe genocide in Darfur.

Baiters are basically sending criminals on wild goose chases. People who:

(This is just from the example bait on NPR)
* Happily try to steal money from a Church
* Believe they lure a 15 year old girl to Africa for sex (oh -- you missed that didn't you -maybe if you hadn't based your opinion solely on a 15 minute interview)
* Immediately resume scamming once returned home
* Happily try to take money from the down on their luck / sick

Not quite a Newb Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Posts: 24

There are many types of scam. Again, if you bothered to read the ethics thread, you'd know.

One type includes love scams, where scammers will trick victims into giving them money after professing their love.

Have a look on the love scam forum - one scammer is even targetting disabled women!!

Those women are lonely, vulnerable and can often suffer from low self esteem. They then get shown affection by a scammer who may pretend to have a sick child that needs money for medicine.

How on earth can you accuse them of being greedy!?

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 21 Sep 2008 Posts: 4

Look, I'm not saying these people are great people, obviously they are not. I just wonder at the logic behind joining their game and thus sinking to their level. As you said, none of this stops them from scamming. Obviously these wild goose chases do nothing to reform them. It seems to me that much of this is for the amusement of scambaiters.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:58 pm

TAB wrote:

I just wonder at the logic behind joining their game and thus sinking to their level.

I am not a scammer and I don't scam people so I don't sink to their level.

Pray let me know your solution. I'm sure it will be worth listening to as you have so many qualms about what we do.

If you have no answer, then it was nice to receive your unconstructive and uninformed insults.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:00 pm

Quote:

As you said, none of this stops them from scamming. Obviously these wild goose chases do nothing to reform them.

I don't believe anyone here has claimed that the goal of baiting is to stop or reform these scammers. Rather, we take up their time and resources, with the occasional arrest.

Please read some of the stickies before continuing with this discussion. That's the first thing I did when I came to 419eater and it was very informative.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:04 pm

Quote:

It seems to me that much of this is for the amusement of scambaiters.

Yes -- clearly.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:14 pm

TAB wrote:

You are no better than the people who you are targeting.

Am I not? That's quite a sweeping statement.

TAB wrote:

Ira made a great point, Americans who are targeted by these scams are also doing it for greed..they invest money at the promise of getting a big payout down the line.

Again, incorrect. A lot of the people that I end up advising fell for a scam out of financial desperation, (cheque scams in particular attract those on low incomes), curiosity, loneliness (in romance scams), confusion (a lot of victims are elderly).... I could go on all day. Yes, a few may be greedy, but that's not the majority.

TAB wrote:

If you are so concerned about stopping internet scams, you could concentrate your energy on educating people about these scams.

Yup, and I do. In fact many members here do exactly that. You'll find lots of 419eater members are also members at www.scamwarners.com, a site dedicated solely to warning people of the dangers of scams. Think of that as the business end, and this as the fun end, if you like.

TAB wrote:

The only people benefiting from this scambaiting are the sick, violent, jobless, most likely racist and clearly xenophobic individuals who make up this community. GET A LIFE.

I'm not jobless, I work hard for my living. I'm not racist as I have no idea what colour or race the scammer may be. I target scammers from a variety of countries, yes some are based in Africa and are possibly black (I'm not interested, so I don't ask) but some are based in Russia and are almost certainly white, but I'm not interested in their colour.

Xenophobic? How am I somehow fearful of foreign things, when I travel the world with my job? I love foreign cultures and love learning about them.

I just don't like thieves.

Good rant, but I think I've adressed everything in it fairly easily.

Anything else you want to add?

Welcome to eater by the way. Smile

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:15 pm

Hello Tab, welcome here.

I thought the same way for a long while and couldn't see the benefits of baiting and yes every baiter puts a bit of his own mentality in it. There are baits I still don't understand, but that's not my responsibility, lots of things happen in the world I don't agree with and I'm getting too old to fight them all.
But consider the alternative.
No baiters, we quit, delete the websites and all info and let the victims take care of their own trouble.
What do you think, would our counter parts get more or less victims? Where would a victims go with questions if in doubt about the other party. Yes it's their own fault and they are greedy to make a buck the wrong way, that's why scammers are so easy to bait Wink

It's a normal economic handle, create a need and then cash in on it and as most of the "modern" world is now hooked up by cellphone, internet and SMS the real relations are created online, "normal" human interaction, face to face, is getting less and less and we have to adapt to that. Some do and some don't, they are the lonely ones, craving for some attention and will bloom when a character pays attention to their needs. The credit societies, like the States and Canada, where every urge can be filled by putting it on the credit card, it's normal and accepted that you are down for a few thousand dollars, just pay the fine every month.
They even have special laws about how far a credit company can go to herass you to pay the bill. There is always a need for money, easy cash that will improve everything. So we created our own victims in that way too. Always ready to better their financial situation with all means possible, making more fake money to go around all the time, air-miles, store credit cards, store points cards, anything to fluff up the money market, but there is still only so much to go around.
As the government is ready to protect their people where ever there is a thread, they have totally missed this one as there is no money to be made with it and it only hits individuals. Politics has the same idea about it and so the police is left with no means to prevent or persecute the perpetrators. Now I can leave the victims alone and look the other way or I can try, within the law to do something about it. Baiting is a fun past time, not harming anyone and all it costs me is an internet connection and my spare time when I have any and believe me, when you are retired you have plenty of that.
Your original message here is already a bait, done on purpose to trigger us all to work for you and to counter your accusation and it works Laughing

But as we have had many smart @sses like you here, I just changed a few things and copied/pasted it here, so your only partly successful Wink

You're welcome to join us and stir the pot a bit. You're not the first one, not the smartest one and they all left us again and we are still here Laughing

CU around then, eh

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:21 pm

Quote:

I'd still like to hear someone explain how victims of these scams are "innocent" Do they not enter into these agreements to recieve a major payout? Are they not entering into what they think is a get rich quick scheme? Seriously....

How does someone who has received a death threat expect a major payout?Or someone who is contacted by an individual saying they need money to pay for the care of wounded orphans?We could forward you hundreds of e mails that play to an individuals generosity,fear etc,and have nothing to do with greed or a big payout.But why bother,you obviously have all the answers.For the record I don't give a damn about what color these thieves are,or what flag they fly.They are thieves pure and simple.Why do you have so much sympathy for them?

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:25 pm

Quote:

most likely racist and clearly xenophobic individuals who make up this community. GET A LIFE.

Interesting statement and "wrong".We are not all "white" some of us have racially mixed families.Some of use also spend considerable amount of our time and our money,to help those in other parts of the world to help those suffering from hunger,aids and the orphans that are the real victums of the many wars in Africa
Use your moral outrage to do some good.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:25 pm

In your opinion I'm no better than the scammers I mess with. Except there's one major difference. I use my time and energy (unpaid) to try and prevent them from fleecing victims. Agreed some are motivated by greed, but the majority are just ordinary people who think that they have had a bit of good fortune. Most of their victims are just gullible, if you want a world where basically honest but naive people can be rolled one way, then the other, be my guest.

The rest of what you said I'll put down to ignorance. You don't me or the site.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:32 pm

Quote:

Why do you have so much sympathy for them?

Don't you get it? He would love to be a scammer, easy money and no work, but he hasn't got the guts or the brains to do it. But still lonely as he is he has found that the opposite reaction can get him some attention that he needs to feel good. Like a spoiled dog starts to bite when it doesn't get its way. We shoot those around here or re-educate them Wink

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

TAB:

I understand your limited perspective, as we see it quite often. I suggest that before you continue to insult the members here, you actually learn a bit about what you are talking about.

We have an ongoing ethics thread here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=148333

On that thread, many members have taken the time to explain about how we work with victims and many of their stories.

We will not tolerate victims being called names here. Please read that thread, at the very least, before continuing to spout off about something you know nothing about.

I will lock this thread so that we can keep all of the ethics debate in one spot. Wink

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:49 pm

Hi TAB.

I understand your outrage. You come from a very uniformed position who has merely scratched the surface of what we do. You can of course help yourself by doing a little research to better educate, and thus, having what we like to call, 'a position with which to argue'. You've joined here with the simple mission of blabbing on about a subject matter you are clueless.

I'm not going to defend myself or my actions to the accusations you believe justified. It would be a waste of my time, and you are unable to change your stance based on what I say. We often have the race card thrown in our faces, and rest assured, we do not condone or allow that sort of behaviour here.

If you are seriously interested in knowing exactly what it is we do, then trying reading the forums. Do some research. Watch and listen to what really goes on around here. You can also use google to research the various types of scams we fight beside the 'stupid dumb greedy victims', and have a look at the very big picture. I can personally guarantee you will learn something. Maybe even take up the cause.

Thanks for visiting.