Split from Radio show thread: Ethics of the Chad Bait

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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:34 pm

^^
Hi. And welcome to Eater. Wink

Whilst you're waiting for Prof to arise from his alcohol induced coma, I can answer question 4 for you.
The lad was gained from what we call a "Catcher Account". Basically, we sign Guestbooks on the internet and leave our email addresses. We always read the site we're seeding our accounts on and we always leave nice messages for the site owner - it's not just a case of using somebody's site blatantly.

Most scammers have a piece of software we call a "Spider". They direct their Spider at the site where the guestbook is and it harvests all of the email addresses. They then mass-mail their scam out to every email address from that site, trying to find victims. One lad will literally send 1000s of the same scam email. Some work in gangs and it is one lad's job to harvest and supply those addresses and then pass them onto the next lad who then sends out the scam-mail.

If you put "guyman+guestbook+2008" into your search engine, you'll probably find quite a few guestbooks (it's the best way of finding live guestbooks) and then visit those sites and read the comments left by the visitors, you will normally find a something like "I DON DEY LAND HERE>>KEEP OFF OOOOO". This means that a scammer has used his spider and is targetting every email account on that site.

You can rest assured 100% that the lad in your question is a scammer. We don't bait innocents here. That means that we must be positive that they are lads - not internet beggars or mere spammers. Sometimes, we get the odd post or two in the forum where a baiter isn't sure if he's hooked a lad. If we feel that there's a question-mark about this, the advice is always not to bait. Quite possibly, a baiter may put a hook out to see if the person on the other end will bite and prove himself to be a lad and normally, because of the way we receive our mails, they usually do.

I should point out that guestbooks are only one way that the lad finds his victims. Some will scour advertising sites, others dating sites. Basically, they'll look for anywhere which has email addresses that they can harvest.

edit: Jojo got in before me. I taught him everything he knows so you can take his word on it this time.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Posts: 16

streaded wrote:

welcome NPR listener
I hope that listening to the broadcast has made you more aware and therefore less likley to be scammed and also able to help those near you if anyone tries it on them.

Thanks for the welcome, and the answers. For the record, I have been on the internet since it was the Arpanet and was raised by suspicious, depression-era parents, so there's virtually no danger of me personally being scammed. You're right; is good to know where to send other people if they are taken in, though!

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:38 pm

^^ If you know someone who gets scammed, don't send them here. Here we deal with the baiting side of things. Victims are a different kettle of fish.

Send them to our sister site at www.scamwarners.com. Wink

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Posts: 16

Slightlyoutofit wrote:

^^
edit: Jojo got in before me. I taught him everything he knows so you can take his word on it this time.

Hehe. Thanks to both of you. I don't disagree with, erm, catching 'Famous' with his pants down, just that I was wincing in anticipation, because he does really seem anxious about Anita. Of course he's a sexual predator. Thanks for confirming his scammity, as well. Smile

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Posts: 16

jojobean wrote:

npr- Thanks for posing your questions in a coherent manner. That's not the normal format that people use.

It's the least I can do, given that you guys are busy planning devious baits...

Quote:

Yes. I have spent time before helping less fortunate people (not Africa though). I have also donated money to such causes. I do plan to, at some point within the next few years, go to Cameroon to help on a medical trip with a friend of mine who is a doctor.

My experience there was that most people were very kind and generous with what little they had. I hope yours is similarly positive.

Quote:

No, to my knowledge this has never been done.

Wow. Somehow my (lack of) faith in human nature suspects that it must happen. Maybe I'm wrong about people in general.

[quote]

Quote:

3) What proportion of baiters have a problem with pretending to represent a church?

Quote:

A very small amount. I only know a couple who would have such a problem.

That's interesting too. Thanks. Smile

Quote:

Famous and his father are both scammers. I do not doubt he is genuinely concerned about Anita. However, this guy is planning on having sex with a 15 year old. Well, your response might be, "That might not be wrong in Africa." However, he was SO quick to lie about it. He was completely in denial about the whole thing. And yes, I agree that the fate of Famous is far worse than that of Adamu. I would rather be Adamu any day of the week.

Thanks for that. I can't help wincing for Linda K Famous, all the same... I think he may have taken those photos just for Anita.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Posts: 16

Slightlyoutofit wrote:

^^ If you know someone who gets scammed, don't send them here. Here we deal with the baiting side of things. Victims are a different kettle of fish.

Send them to our sister site at www.scamwarners.com. Wink

Duly noted, thank you!

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:54 pm

@npr_listener - Welcome to Eater and this discussion in particular.. Very Happy

1)Has anyone contributing to the thread actually been to west Africa, besides onyenekwu?
I was raised in Kenya, and spent 13 years working in the East African safari business. (Yes..!! I really did...!!.. Laughing

)
Therefore I have travelled extensively throughout Kenya, Tanzania & Uganda.
Also I have travelled overland through the Senegambia region of West Africa.
Additionally, I got engaged in The Gambia and married the The Seychelles.

The two countries that I would most love to visit are Botswana & Gabon, but I am hoping to take my family to South Africa next year.

We have a number of members on Eater that were either born on the African continent or have lived in Africa for a significant period of time. And I know that many here have journeyed to Africa or other third world regions.

2) To your knowledge, have baiters ever actually used the tactic of sending small amounts of money to encourage the scammer to keep going (and/or to continue communication)?
To the best of my knowledge, no, this hasn't happened.
We would certainly frown upon sending cash to scammers, however we will regularly send them phoney information to make them think that they have been sent money.

3) What proportion of baiters have a problem with pretending to represent a church?
Church baits are very popular, and I personally have no qualms about creating a phoney church.
My only reservation is that this is a modality that has already been played many times, so I would look for a different approach to bait scammers.

These are just my views and opinions, I am sure that other baiters will have different perspectives..... Very Happy

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:03 pm

npr_listener wrote:

Thanks for that. I can't help wincing for Linda K Famous, all the same... I think he may have taken those photos just for Anita.

Don't get me wrong... what is about to happen to Famous is, in my opinion, the worst thing that has ever been done to a lad. One of my friends who has followed the Chad bait (and laughed at every portion of it) has constantly cringed at the future of Famous. I think Prof and YW would agree that this is the roughest fate for any lad.

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:13 pm

Jojo... I'm still anxiously waiting for what will happen to Famous... this doesn't help! How much longer do we have to wait? Please!

Very Happy

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:29 pm

It shouldn't be long. We have someone else lending a hand, so it depends on how busy he is. I suspect within a week.

Baiting Guru Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 12237

Welcome npr_listener.

npr_listener wrote:

3) What proportion of baiters have a problem with pretending to represent a church?

I am curious as to why you asked that question. I mainly bait as a Bishop of a church and usually target charity and church scams.

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:49 pm

Yea, I try to put myself in Famous' shoes and I nearly want to jump off a bridge knowing what is in store for him. Man, I don't even like thinking about it.

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:02 pm

npr_listener wrote:

2) To your knowledge, have baiters ever actually used the tactic of sending small amounts of money to encourage the scammer to keep going (and/or to continue communication)?

Chris Hansen sent a few hundred dollars to a scammer when he did his piece on 419 scams for Dateline. (Here)

At the time I was a little revolted, but given how much publicity that show generated, it was well worth it. I also think the show may have made that money back in advertising dollars. Wink

In principle, I wouldn't send a penny. That is partially because I really don't want to see them get any money at all for their efforts, but it's also because it seems like cheating to me. I enjoy the challenge of stringing them along with fictitious payments that always seem to be just slightly out of reach.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 6

Don't know why no one mentioned this, but I would seriously like to ask anyone who questions our ethics here whether they would ask these questions of an undercover cop.

Don't they do essentially the same things that we do? Pretend to be something that we're not, in an attempt to protect the public from being preyed upon by these criminals?

I would like to ask DirtMcGirt or anyone who thinks in the same light to please go down to your local precinct and have a chat with some officers, presenting this philosophy to them...that they do not have a moral "high ground" when working undercover. I would be very interested to see the kinds of response that they get.

Oh, and be sure to mention that the fact they they get paid for what they do, and that they have the ability to arrest people against their will, also weighs against their moral high ground.

Look forward to responses to that!

Trophy Videos · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:42 pm

Welcome to all the new members who listened in on the show, and thank you for posting your questions and concerns to us. We all enjoy discussing your concerns and educating you all on our thoughts regarding your questions. We are encouraged by your words, and look forward to interacting with you all here in the future as well. There are so many new members joining, it's going to take awhile to get to know you all. If you decide to stay here and bait, good luck to you. Very Happy

@Prof - For a guy in a coma, you really are an eloquent guy. Wink

Thanks for posting that letter and speaking for us. Well done. Very Happy

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:46 pm

I hope this is not all hype, Jojo. Wink

But, YW is involved so I'm looking forward to Famous' fate. Smile

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:16 pm

npr_listener wrote:

Has anyone contributing to the thread actually been to west Africa, besides onyenekwu?

Of course

DionBouton has spent and still spends many years of his life in West Africa. He´s written an insightful text about some cultural backgrounds here Very Happy

** SUSPENDED ** Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 9

npr_listener wrote:

Hehe. Thanks to both of you. I don't disagree with, erm, catching 'Famous' with his pants down, just that I was wincing in anticipation, because he does really seem anxious about Anita. Of course he's a sexual predator. Thanks for confirming his scammity, as well. Smile

Is there a link to the "Famous" thread? I can't seem to locate it and my curiosity is piqued to say the least!

edit: Holy hell! It's all a part of the same bait that got this going?!? Wow. I guess I haves me some readin' to do!

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:26 pm

Hi,

I've been reading this thread and would like to add a bit of a rant.

First of all, after reading the discussions for this topic I have come to the conclusion that the baiters consist of many intelligent and creative people that have presented many excellent, and poignant, arguments for what they do.

These baiters invest their time and energy in delivering scamming predators a bit of justice that they wouldn't otherwise receive from the formal systems of criminal prosecution in their respective countries. I don’t see any phony justification or tricky rationalization games, their attacks are justified due to the hard reality of the situations.

The fact that the justice comes at the expense of the scammer and may put them in danger doesn’t phase me at all, but I digress.

The real reason I am putting forth this rant is because I have seriously grown tired of the mentality of blaming the victim, and the incessant defense of the predator. We consistently hear from the apologists that we should consider the “plight,” of the poor and destitute, with the added pretentious guilt-mongering of telling us to “put yourselves in their shoes.” I really don’t take poverty into account when focusing on the predator. Just because you live in a shanty village and have been stapled to an elephant’s butt for your entire life, only having dirty water to drink from a dung-stone well doesn’t mean that you are excused from knowing the fundamental human dictates of the differences between right and wrong.

I also take issue with the tactic of these self-proclaimed empathics to use language like; "Although I don't condone crime due to poverty…," then move directly on in their manifesto to fully justify crime due to poverty. How is this thinking even viable? How can it be taken seriously? Just admit the fact that you care more for the criminal than the victim due to their unfortunate circumstances. Someone could at least respect that. Using subversive language to deny you are this way is just plain cowardly, and shows a lack of actual principle since you can’t even put forth your ideology with conviction.

If these poor souls are so destitute, how do they have the ability to run multiple scams through e-mails that require fees to be paid to an internet café? I’m not sure what the rates are, but wouldn’t it make more sense to use that money to maybe buy… food and water? This “poor,” argument doesn’t ring true with these select group of con men, or any other ass that commits “poverty induced,” crime. There’s no excuse for this thought process. Just because a koala bear shat a rainbow in your brain does not make the rainbow a reality.

It doesn’t make any difference where the predators are located, either. I would have no issues with a baiter leading along an Anglo-Saxon white guy from the U.S. The argument that the baiters are somehow racist because most of the scammers are from Nigeria is another baseless argument that implies that the baiter is deviant and thus they are inconsequential to the argument. This kind of tactic is used constantly in the U.S. whenever a white person questions a completely benign point about an individual if they are black. This labeling tactic is a real yawn-fest. (Oh yeah, and before I am saddled with a cry of “Hypocrisy! You are labeling us bleeding-hearts!” I would just like to say, as a good friend of mine does: “Yea. Whatever.”)

Perhaps not all of the victims are innocent, but the majority of them are, as we can see on this board through the hundreds of documented anecdotal examples. So, (let me spike this one on myself first before someone beats me to my label), pardon my “draconian reptile-brained,” outlook on these scammers, but I wouldn’t care even a little bit if they are macheted to death, incarcerated, or dipped in butter and shot out of a camel’s ass in a hostile land. I liken them to pedophiles, who also lead along innocent victims, take from them, and end up destroying them.

I’m not trying to be Captain Hyperbole with this jump of logic, but how isn’t it the same? Was the victim willing to enter into this relationship because they were tricked into the role of “savior,” of the predator? A lot of the scams are aimed at emotional triggers of the victims who, if they’re compassionate, want to help someone in need, which is even more despicable.

So, I have no problem with the good folks on this board, or what they do. They do something that seems to be lost on many people in their apathy. These people TAKE ACTION. If more of us did this with unrelenting passion and drive, there would be much less evil things happening out there, so I commend and thank them on their initiative and service.

Oh yeah, and a ton of the baits are frickin’ hilarious genius, which is always a big fat plus in my book. (I'm trying not to come off as a sycophantic fanboy here, but credit where credit is due.)

To finish this long-winded rant, I am saying is that it is nearly impossible to break through to this “excuse the poor, and do not punish them,” mindset that some people have, and is a waste of time to do so.

The cyclic nature of the ideology is basically just mental masturbation. It feels great, but serves no real purpose.

-MoB

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:28 pm

It's all part of the same deal. Lots of twists and turns. Not DIRECTLY related to Adamu. But still somewhat related.

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:17 pm

Welcome MinisterOfBourbon. Great rant.

Where were you yesterday? Wink

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:20 pm

^^ Great rant?? I thought he'd never shut up. You'd think that within a post of that length, he'd at least be able to get across SOME of the way he truly feels. Wink

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:22 pm

Yeah, I really have to get my thoughts in order.

It's all the time spent with YW. Just being around him makes me dumber.

Shocked

-MoB

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:25 pm

@Prof: Admit it, you're only happy when someone disagrees with you. <strike>Sadist.</strike> <strike>Masochist.</strike> A$$hole.

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:27 pm

Arguing would only prove you right, and we can't have that. You were right about something last week. That's your monthly allowance. Laughing

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