Scambaitng Questionaire

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 4

Hello all,

I�m an undergraduate student at a Midwestern university who has had his interest piqued in the function of scambaiting. I�m in the process of collecting scholarship and primary documents relating to the emergence of scambating. In particular, I�m exploring the confidence game film genre as it relates to audience involvement within the scam as perpetrated on film (the audience is being duped along with certain characters in the film, until the eventual reveal) and my perceived progression of this experience toward the current practice of active involvement within the scam within the online sphere (scambaiters take an active role and in essence are living out a real life version of what could previously only be experienced vicariously). I�m looking for anecdotal evidence to support/contradict what information I�ve already gathered, which as you can imagine has been difficult to collect considering the lack of scholarship on this topic.

My questions, if you would be so kind as to answer, are these:

1) What are your motivations, if any, behind performing the tasks you perform? I�m looking beyond the commonly professed belief that you are protecting potential victims, and hoping to establish hidden motivational forces.
2) Those who collect trophies of any form beyond the actual transcripts of correspondence, what are your motivations to obtaining these keepsakes? Purely humorous, something more?
3) Are you a film of confidence game genre films? I�m speaking along the lines of contemporary example: The Sting, House of Games, The Grifters, Matchstick Men, The Spanish Prisoner, among others.
4) How much time do you devote on average per week to you hobby of scambaiting?

Any responses are appreciated! Thanks for your time and consideration!

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:21 pm

Hi welcome here,
My guess, you'll find out more by just reading here.
Your questions.
1) in order of importance to me, boredom, time waster, don't feel good doing it but it gives me something to do and I learn a bit about their world.
2) I just went through the trophy room and was thinking of finding another hobby and how much the demanded trophy has to say about the (hidden) motives/thoughts of the baiter.
3) I liked matchstick men, never seen the others, 80 miles from the nearest cinema and no TV Laughing

Told you boredom is the main cause.

Would like to see your results, but remember you're talking to baiters here Wink

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:27 pm

1 - you mention the main aim, which you cannot dismiss as being irrelevant, if your study is to be anything more than slanted. Beyond that a sense of moral outrage at some of the charities targetted by scammers to have their funds diverted into their pockets. I recall the Noma Charity and the Dying Indian baby as being singularly sickening examples, along with the one sending pictures of Nigerian burn victims as part of the scam.

Beyond that - it is a battle of wits and comic skills. The scammers use increasingly sophisticated means - websites and mass mailers - operating different types of scam - credit card fraud and identity theft. So they aren't all hapless idiots deserving of our pity, and even the idiots do immeasurable harm and damage, usually to those less able to handl the losses they may incur.

2 - humorous and evidential proof of what has been achieved. It is also a good and quick way to stimulate interest amongst the non-baiting community. It also represents a form of punishment for the scammer.

3 - No - we're not scammers or confidence tricksters. I am a fan of comedy- TV and film. See my name and icon. My charcters are David Brent, Spike Milligan, Wile E Coyte, Reginald Perrin, Ivor Swolin Gonad, Hercules Gritpype-Thynn, Bertie Wooster, Ned Seagoon and so on.

4 - Too long, at least 24 hours a week.At most Shocked

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 5727

You talk real perty fur an undergrad.

I'm calling shannigans on this one. Spank my butt and call me Sparky, but something stinks about this email. I've got a graduate degree, and I don't know of a single soul that speaks like you do. I think lad-speak is easier to understand.

If I'm out of line feel free to smack me down, but I ain't playing.

(awaiting mod smackdown........)

*** BANNED *** Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 2021

Why don't you just crash in here and ask some questions because we like that Rolling Eyes

Try introducing yourself in one thread and then asking your questions in another, strangely we are pretty covert here and if you get the odd skeptical reply don't be surprised

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:38 pm

1: - Boredom, and the sense I can accomplish something

2: - To show what I have done to 419ers

3: - I personally prefer action-comedy (Naked Gun, Spy Hard, Loaded Weapon)

4: 1-2 hours, depending on if I need to do any photoshopping.

.... I tend to do the religious baits, though I do some of the "Some one died and left $millions in a bank account" ones also.

My characters range from a deaf priest, to a mineralogist, to a business man.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 4

~ Jayhawk,

I said I was an undergrad, not a grad student.

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:08 pm

I still prefer comedy. Very Happy

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:11 pm

You mean motivation beyond the $25.000.000 USD in the locked metal box?! Cool

*** BANNED *** Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 2021

Quote:

I said I was an undergrad, not a grad student.

That may mean something to someone but to me personally is means nothing, my point being, it would be good manners to establish yourself here before asking duff questions, for the average passer by this is a bit of fun and a laugh, for the real members here this is a serious business and not something to be taken lightly... behind every baited lad is 100% real victims wondering what went wrong.
Yes we make them look like dickheads but look deeper and your "Grad Thingy" will make alot more sense.
If this reply seems harsh i make no apologies, just don't ignore the real reason we are here.

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:16 pm

Quote:

1) What are your motivations, if any, behind performing the tasks you perform? I�m looking beyond the commonly professed belief that you are protecting potential victims, and hoping to establish hidden motivational forces.

Aside from protecting victims, let's see...

1. Why not?

2. It's fun.

3. I have way too much time on my hands.

Quote:

2) Those who collect trophies of any form beyond the actual transcripts of correspondence, what are your motivations to obtaining these keepsakes? Purely humorous, something more?

I have not actually gotten a trophy yet, but right now it's peer pressure. Everyone else has those cool pics, and I want one, too.
Seriously, trophies are fun, proof that you've got the lad hooked, and they waste a scammer's time and money.

Quote:

3) Are you a film of confidence game genre films? I�m speaking along the lines of contemporary example: The Sting, House of Games, The Grifters, Matchstick Men, The Spanish Prisoner, among others.

I don't watch movies, actually. I prefer books (no, really, I do). Isn't "The Spanish Prisoner" the earliest incarnation of AFF?

Quote:

4) How much time do you devote on average per week to you hobby of scambaiting?

As mentioned above, I have way too much time on my hands. Even when I don't have too much time, I still have ADD, and can't concentrate on my "real" work. Rolling Eyes

So I'd say scambaiting takes up a substantial part of my day.

Quote:

Master Baiter Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 179

thedude wrote:

1) What are your motivations, if any, behind performing the tasks you perform? I�m looking beyond the commonly professed belief that you are protecting potential victims, and hoping to establish hidden motivational forces.

For some of us, protecting potential victims and fighting crime on a grassroots level is not just a "commonly professed belief" but the actual reason we scambait.

Other than that, I find it enjoyable to create a story that will draw the scammer into believing my authenticity. It's also great mental exercise to match wits with a veteran scammer - what can I do next to further draw him into wasting his time on me?

Quote:

2) Those who collect trophies of any form beyond the actual transcripts of correspondence, what are your motivations to obtaining these keepsakes? Purely humorous, something more?

It goes with the last point of #1. Getting a scammer to do something he doesn't want to do, that is patently ridiculous when viewed with a neutral eye, using only a tantalizing promise of future payment is excellent mental exercise. The same technique has applications in the real world as management and persuasive techniques.

Quote:

3) Are you a film of confidence game genre films? I�m speaking along the lines of contemporary example: The Sting, House of Games, The Grifters, Matchstick Men, The Spanish Prisoner, among others.

Never even heard of said genre.

Quote:

4) How much time do you devote on average per week to you hobby of scambaiting?

6 hours, maybe? Just depends on the week, my mood, the status of my baits - I don't have an "average" week.

Quote:

Any responses are appreciated! Thanks for your time and consideration!

I'm wondering, how will you use this research? It's useless in a statistical sense. I think those of us who are responding should be able to know how this research will be used.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 61

these are the rules as I understand it

1. Keep the introduction short.

2.only one question at a time

3. Baiters don't fill out questionnaires, mugus fill out questionnaires.

do I pass?

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:32 pm

1)You seem to reject,or not be interested in hearing that we are trying to protect innocent victims,and hint at some unknown motovation.This bias is going to get you a lot of grief around here.If I may suggest phrasing it as what other factors motivate you.My self,I love messing with the mind of some thief who thinks he is ready to bilk me.Recently,I have mostly been messing with hitmen,who are low,but as other have pointed out the scum that tries to steal in the name of cancer victims or dying orphans is pretty low too.Sorry,but if this crud is dealing with someone here,someone out there may be spared,and it is amusing.

2)don't have any trophys yet myself.I personally regard them as tangible proof of a job well done.Again,I get the feeling you are trying to read something sinister into all of this.

3)I think you mean are you a fan of the genre.I have seen The Sting many times.Never saw,or for that matter heard of most of the rest.

4)I would estimate 10 hours give or take

I wish you luck,but really your question could have been worded better.

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:33 pm

of course ^^^(edit cause they are so fast here) Jack keep your IP# hidden and the lad busy, that's all it takes Laughing

Now if you wanna play the major league you'll have to get inventive and work a bit Wink

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:34 pm

yes Jack...you do Laughing

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:36 pm

thedude wrote:

1) What are your motivations, if any, behind performing the tasks you perform? I�m looking beyond the commonly professed belief that you are protecting potential victims, and hoping to establish hidden motivational forces.

I started baiting because I thought it was hilarious. Now I do it because I enjoy causing the scammers hassle, knowing that they are the ones who chose to contact me in the hope of stealing my money, and they're the ones worse off for it. I don't personally feel I'm protecting victims, although I hope that I might be using the scammers time and resources enough to distract him long enough from a real victim that someone might find them and warn them about the scam.

thedude wrote:

2) Those who collect trophies of any form beyond the actual transcripts of correspondence, what are your motivations to obtaining these keepsakes? Purely humorous, something more?

Mainly for humourous purposes, but to me trophies are just that, trophies of my scambaiting achievements. Just like getting a safari hat in my signature, it makes me feel like I've really got one over on the scammers.

thedude wrote:

3) Are you a film of confidence game genre films? I�m speaking along the lines of contemporary example: The Sting, House of Games, The Grifters, Matchstick Men, The Spanish Prisoner, among others.

I'm not sure I fully understand the question, but I've never seen any of those films.

thedude wrote:

4) How much time do you devote on average per week to you hobby of scambaiting?

It varies greatly, but I'd estimate an average of 7-10 hours per week, if you include reading the forums.

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:38 pm

I think the OP meant to ask:

3) Are you a fan of confidence game genre films?

Baiting Guru Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 12237

thedude wrote:

hoping to establish hidden motivational forces.

Lotta gives me a cookie for every bait I work. It is a bit Pavlovian, but they are damn good cookies.

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:41 pm

Welcome Thedude:

I recommend that you spend a week reading everything, and I mean everything in the forums.
This will give you a better understanding of what baiters do.
You are asking a lot of questions before reading the forums.

Please use the following: comma, period, paragraph. I did not even bother reading the rest of your questions. Mugus write like that.

I agree with bombardier 100 %

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:28 am

1. I do it because it's one way to explore a question that has interested me for as long as I can remember, about personalities, creating them, what are they, messing with them in the eyes of other people, what is mine, do I have a "core" personality or am I just a bunch of them that I can pick and wear as a situation demands?

I was baiting random-chatters on ICQ before I came across the 419 baiting world, and I'm still doing it... I set up a character and try to make him/her as real as possible, and interact with other people who don't know the real me. My aim: Can I truly convince someone else that I am that character and not the real "me"? My record so far is I have had a guy on the hook since December 2006 who believes I'm really a woman living a few hundred miles away from my real location. I've already confessed once to fabricating my whole backstory, and set up another one which he believes even more because he now thinks I'm being more honest after my "admission". I find this amusing but also fascinating. It also challenges me to make my story, facts, circumstances, day-to-day anecdotes believable, all within the limits of what I can and can't do. For example, there's no way in the world I could take a phone call as my falsetto would get me nowhere in a Sounding Like A Woman contest. How long can I keep up the lack of phone calls? I don't know, but it's an interesting exercise to find out.

419 baiting is another version of that. Different rules at times, different modalities definitely, but the same underlying idea of creating a whole new personality and letting it come to life. Is that personality "me" or is it a fiction that I willingly created? Or both? I can explore those questions in the way I bait and how I behave/what I do.

On top of that, and something I haven't seen mentioned much in my time on Eater, is the power thing. In real life, in face-to-face situations, I'm not a powerful personality, I don't dominate conversations or gatherings or any social situation. Just the quiet guy who sits and watches and listens and only speaks when it's really necessary. In a bait... I find the tables are turned and I can usually manipulate and take control of whoever I'm conversing with, taking over totally and imposing whatever will I want on the other person. That probably makes me sound like some unstable psycho with frustrated delusions of world domination now, I do realize.
What I mean is, it's like an outlet, a way to be someone or something different for a little while, someone/something so different from the usual "me", it's very exhilarating and refreshing to escape the normal "me" and experience something else.
With the 419 lads, I can take this to an extreme and not suffer attacks of conscience, because I've seen how they are the lowest sort of vermin who have absolutely zero morals or compassion for their victims. They're toys for me to play with, I guess.

2. I don't go for trophies or collect them. The journey is just as important and enjoyable as the souvenirs, to me.

3. Not a fan, as such, but if one happens to cross my path then I'll watch, take mental notes, and learn.

4. Way too much. I'm unemployed at the moment, so... way too much, let's leave it at that.

I agree that it would be interesting to know how you will use the information you collect here. It being quite qualitative and hard to collate, I do wonder about its usefulness to you.

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:40 am

@thedude - just how and where will your research be used?

Who would give a student a scholarship for collecting documents on scambaiting? Very Happy

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:42 am

I would

but because of a plane crash I have some problems accessing my trunk box at the Global Security Company, which demands a security pineapple sign pic...

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 4

Thanks for the responses � I would like to clarify my position and add a few response to issues which have been raised.

I understand the hesitation some might have in responding to my questions. Admittedly the questions could have been worded better and I could have been more concise/specific with my thesis, but chose not to do so because of three factors:

First, as Gomer Pyle noted I have already tainted the survey, by framing the questions in the manner which I have. However I felt I wouldn't have received any feedback had I not provided at least some background information about my goals. Considering some of the skeptical attitudes in this thread, I was right in my assumption that just merely posting questions would be fruitless.

Second, I have less than two weeks to conclude my research and write the actual paper. I should have used foresight and attemted to establish a communication in the previous months, so that I could better frame my questions � and not be viewed as a total outsider to your community. Instead I have simply lurked about this website and others, while reading secondary sources which pertain more directly toward my aim.

Third, I'm aware of the obvious reasons that scambaiting is popular, by framing the first question the way I did I was hoping to sift through the popular reasons for scambaiting so that I wouldn't have to sift though those answers. As has been stated, there are plenty examples in this forum alone of the moral inspiration for scambaiting.

Thus, I have procrastinated and not taken the time to compose a more complete survey, therefore I resorted to this quick and informal version to gain a small bit of information which I am lacking.

As far as the moral stance is concerned, I have no problem with the work you people do, in fact I think it is noble. However, in regard to my thesis the right/wrong/ethics is not central toward my point. In fact, its completely irrelevant � I don�t mention ethics at all. I�m dealing with the aspect of participation/role-playing/identity.

Bombardier � I am looking deeply. I would venture to say I�m looking at the phenomenon more �deeply� than you would imagine. I realize that you might be weary of answering my questions, or fear than I�m attempting to condemn scambaitng � but I�m absolutely not. As mentioned previously, my framework has nothing to do with the supposed right or wrong of scambaiting.

Felix � �For some of us, protecting potential victims and fighting crime on a grassroots level is not just a "commonly professed belief" but the actual reason we scambait.

Other than that, I find it enjoyable to create a story that will draw the scammer into believing my authenticity. It's also great mental exercise to match wits with a veteran scammer - what can I do next to further draw him into wasting his time on me?�

This is great stuff � precisely what I was hoping to uncover. I had the assumption that this was the case, but was hoping to find anecdotal evidence to rebut my claim. In research paper you can�t simply say something is so because it is so � you have to have support! I agree that scambating a serious matter for many of those involved, and that protecting would be victims is the primary goal. However, I already have evidence to support this assumption, and was hoping to guide the questions beyond this response. I have found plenty of evidence in this forum that the protection of potential victims is the core motivation, I was just hoping to find others that might have been neglected.

Doc Holliday � �You seem to reject,or not be interested in hearing that we are trying to protect innocent victims,and hint at some unknown motovation.This bias is going to get you a lot of grief around here.If I may suggest phrasing it as what other factors motivate you.My self,I love messing with the mind of some thief who thinks he is ready to bilk me.Recently,I have mostly been messing with hitmen,who are low,but as other have pointed out the scum that tries to steal in the name of cancer victims or dying orphans is pretty low too.Sorry,but if this crud is dealing with someone here,someone out there may be spared,and it is amusing.�

Good stuff! How is the tuberculosis treating you? Wink

Once again, as above, I realize the primary motivations, it is my fault for not explicitly mentioning in the original post that I am aware of those motivations. I just want to go deeper to satisfy my argument. J

Sheboppe � My research is going to be used for a term paper. It's a research topics course in which the students are allowed to pick any topic they wish to study. Only my Professor and the 14 other students in the class will read the paper. It's not going to be in any journals or media.

Unfortunately I�m not on scholarship. That said, you might be surprised what topics American Studies embodies and the field/issues which are considered legitimate research � many people re on scholarship for wilder topics than scambaiting!

If anyone is interested, I would be happy to share the final paper when it is done.

Elite Baiter Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 1043

Hey, welcome to the forum. I agree with a few replies that say you should have said hello first, read up on it a bit and then asked, but i know some people aren't adept at

1. Well, my girlfriend - a psychologist - would have you believe that i do it to get a feeling of power, oh and something to do with vigilantism. Maybe i should start dressing as the punisher.
I personally disagree, i think those a secondary motive, albeit a close second. I do enjoy the buzz you get, but to me it is just a pleasant by-product.
My motives are quite simple, i like to lie, it's in my nature. I enjoy spinning a web of deceit. Baiting means i can get it out of my system in a slightly better way than lying to my friends and family, or even to strangers. If i'm helping a victim by taking up too much of the scammers time, or de-educating him so he scares them off, all the better.

2. humorous is good, it encourages other people to share the spoils of war with their friends. Leading to a greater amount of overall knowledge on the subject. Hopefully also decreasing the number of victims and maybe increasing the number of baiters.
I'm after trophies as there are only so many times you can get a guy to walk down the road to the moneygram office. If you get him making you stuff, he's more likely to stick around for the big payment. It's a means to an ends.

3. I can't say i have watched this genre specifically, but i will keep a look out for any of the titles you mentioned, and watch them as it seems like something i would enjoy. Actually, i think i've seen the sting, about gangsters right?

4. I spend a large portion of the day knocking around on forums. This one taking up more time than most as it's updated every few minutes. The baits don't take too long as i only have a few on the books at a time. I'd say i spend at least 9 hours most days on the comp (i don't sleep much) with two days off, so probably at least 24 hours a week usually more if you include the forum and research etc. Without all that maybe 6 hours a week.

EDIT: i see you have replied: Was gonna point out that deadlines were getting close and i thought you might be rushing to get your work in, but i didn't know if the semesters had the same layout in the US as over here.
I hope my answers help. Have fun writing it up. There was a similar topic with someone asking for E-books on scam baiting and AFF. I can't remember how successful it was in yielding results, but it might be worth a look for some references. will find a link.