Explorer vs Firefox

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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:13 am

mrbigtime wrote:

the explorer side of that pic... i have never seen 90% of those tool bars... and i uncheck all the toolbars that i do recognize...

On Internet Explorer, some of the most annoying toolbars can be installed by themselves if you surf in webpages that aren't safe, and then there's the spyware and hijackers, 90% of these programs are designed to attack Internet Explorer.

mrbigtime wrote:

but in another thought... when i did download firefox... it had a whole shit pile of toolbars that came with it... again i unchecked all of them...

Where did you download it from? If you download from the Mozilla Corporation website, the installation file is clean without any extensions, dictionaries or themes.

But sometimes when you download it from other places, it can contain something (like the Google Toolbar), but this is very rare.

mrbigtime wrote:

I am trying to ask a serious question and get some insight into a problem I am having... although it is always amusing to see a funny pic... it really didnt help too much Wink

Well, if you understand the picture, it is serious. I always have been very careful about viruses, always distrusting diskettes, cd's, USB sticks, analyzing every download, I never used P2P programs... etc...

In all that time, only two viruses entered into my hard drive (and they were though, I had to format and re-install the system the two times)... and guess what... They entered through Internet Explorer.

Since I use Firefox (and the NoScript extension), everything's great, it's been years without trouble now...

If you need any help or if you have a more specific question, just let me know and I'll be glad to help!!! Cool

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:27 am

^^^ Mrbigtime What is it you want to know?

As another long time Geek I can say your friend is wrong. Or rather he is letting his opinions get in the way of assessing the requirements of what you need to accomplish.

While many of the Linux software versions aren't as feature rich as their windows counterparts most of them will fall well within the 90/10 rule. That is 90% of the users use 10% of the features in a program. This will often mean that the best tool for the job might not be the latest greatest most expensive software but rather a neat little app.

Again it boils down to thinking through what you what you need to accomplish. For web browsing firefox is the better choice for security and reliability. IE is the better choice for integration with the OS and ease of installing software into the OS. You might want to think about that for a minute.

If you wanted to come up with a list of what you would like to accomplish I'm sure we can come up with linux and or FOSS ( Free Open Source Software) for you to look at. I recently purchased a new laptop for less than the cost of the new MS office package! Personally I think it was a better investment.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:34 am

Are you sure he has had enough exposure to Linux?

I have used different distros for 5 years, from picture editing to coding. I have found that Linux not only has the best software for these kinds of tasks, but there is an abundance of them.
If he had to spend weeks trying to find something...well, too bad for him.

Anyway, Linux and Firefox are the best...really!

EDIT:
THe power of Linux is its module based kernel, instead of the monolithic kernel used in Windows.
I also like that my computer can have uptimes of 30days an more, and it's under a lot of stress 100% of the time.
Usually I have to restart it around then, since the battery needs replacement, the NTFS partition needs repairing, etc.

Baiting Guru Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 12237

I think the point of the n00b's post was this...

That is a scan result from Ad-aware http://www.lavasoftusa.com/ (but honestly, the scan results look a bit photochopped for dramatic effect) IE is much more susceptible to adware, crapware and spyware than Firefox is. I have been running Firefox, along with AVG AV (and admittedly a very nice hard box firewall) and have never encountered any of that nasty stuff.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:44 am

^^

Exactly, it's an Ad-Aware scan that found TONS of malicious software. And now I'm a n00b xD

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:42 am

@ mrbigtime
As an aside try uninstalling norton. I can guarantee you will think twice about reinstalling it. every now and again it goes haywire and slows the whole system up.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:28 am

@mrbigtime, no firefox will not screw up your pc. That is a totally misinformed statement by your friend. It;s actually a lot safer then using IE and will help protect your pc. Our IT dept at work (and indeed many IT dept's worldwide recommend Firefox over IE as they then have to spend less time sorting out the crap that builds up on the computer, malware etc.

Baiting Guru Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3193

mrbigtime wrote:

He has been a computer geek since the 1st computer came out to the public

So am I*, and I totally disagree with every single point he makes. That's the good thing about opinions; there's so many to chose from.

----
* Well, actually a bit before that; 1974ish

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:27 am

Quote:

Lol, that is so funny! Linux is super big in the UK. The problem is that there is no software library to speak of. When you need to accomplish something you could spend weeks searching for a software solution. In the end you might come across some halfway finished title that a mediocre linux hacker assembled in his basement. The philosophy of a free and simple operating system is noble, but unrealistic in the U.S., where consumers demand clean and working software worth paying for.

I have a couple versions of linux that I use for utilities, but to depend on it for the day-to-day requirements of even the novice PC user is just not feasible. That being said. Firefox will completely fuck your computer up, especially once you start adding plugins and stuff. Windows just doest get along with it for the most part.

When did you friend last play with Linux?

I work with Linux, every day. On my PC at home, at work, and mobile on my notebook. The only toy that doesn't run Linux yet is my PDA.
No software-library he says? Then what are those huge repositories all modern distributions have, where you find thousands of packages?

And the time of "halfway finished title that a mediocre linux hacker assembled in his basement" is long over. He doesn't happen to know that lots of big companies actually pay people to develop that kind of stuff? That these are companies like for example IBM, Red Hat, Novell and others.

Today Linux-software is, mostly, equivalent to expensive alternatives for Windows. Sometimes the Windows-software is still better, sometimes the Linux-software exceeds the Windows-software. But anyway, a lot of stuff for Linux also is available for Windows, so you can actually stay on Windows, but use all the nice free software.

Well, so much for my rant. I'd suggest to forward your friends mail to Microsoft so that he can receive the "Steve Ballmer Honorary Pineapple".

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:20 am

Quote:

Lol, that is so funny! Linux is super big in the UK. The problem is that there is no software library to speak of.

No Comment, just a picture of "No software library" (taken from Ubuntu, currently one of the most popular Linux flavours):

Note that all of those pieces of software are searchable and freely downloadable at the click of a button. I use Linux ever day for a multitude of taks and it suits my day-to-day requirements down to the ground.

As for being "super big in the UK", There are 5341 registered* Linux users in the UK, and 24124 in the US. If you check out this table of registered users sorted by ratio of population to users, the UK is only 3 places above the US.
*"registered users" in no way reflects the actual number of users, but is a reasonable estimate of proportion for this purpose.

Quote:

Firefox will completely fuck your computer up, especially once you start adding plugins and stuff. Windows just doest get along with it for the most part.

I'm not sure where he heard that, but "plugins and stuff" for firefox only effect firefox, and it wouldn't have the market share it does if it "fucked your computer up". If you're downloading something that claims to be a plugin/extension and isn't, then yes you could have problems, but stick to addons.mozilla.org and you'll be fine.

I know he's your trusted computery friend, but I'm afriad he's horribly misinformed. I'm not saying you should stop listening to him, but consider checking out some other sources of information as well next time you ask him for advice.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:42 am

And another vote in favour of Firefox.

I am not a computer professional, but I have been using FF since before v1.0 - I tried it and got hooked on the tabbed browsing (yes I know, IE7 finally caught up).

I like the fact that it sits above your OS, so any problems (and like any software it can sometimes get screwed) all you do is uninstall and reinstall - try that with IE.

FF can take some RAM if you run lots of add-ons (as I do), but you can also set FF to fun different profiles (I have 3) that you chose at start-up; each profile has it's own add-ons (as they live in the profile folder) and I have one that is just FF, so I can run it fast and lean.

I just love FF's customisability - hear about an add-on, install it, try it, keep it or bin it (but only get add-ons from Mozilla).

Some of the security apps are excellent - NoScript is a must, in my opinion.

The one thing I've found that IE does best is export passwords - FF does export bookmarks, I can move a whole FF profile (and I have found all the secure files for FF's passwords, but it is a bit of a pain).

If you are having trouble with FF, I suggest you uninstall it, get a new copy from Mozilla and try again.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:23 pm

Ivor Grimey Colon wrote:

I use Linux ever day for a multitude of taks and it suits my day-to-day requirements down to the ground.

I actually have stuff that I cannot do with Windows, except I start looking for some expensive software which then I'll only use once in a while...

As a reply to your screenshot, here's a shot from DesktopBSD, which I'm currently trying, and it's package-manager showing that there are a good 18000 packages for it. Just in case you're afraid of the bad, bad Linux, then you can try a BSD-system. Wink

Edit: The clock on DesktopBSD is wrong, as the virtual-machine-manager sets it to UTC, but DesktopBSD assumes it's set to the local time. It's not like I care a lot, I'm just playing around with it anyway...

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:21 pm

Just chiming in with another vote for the almighty Firefox. I couldnt bait without Gmail manager, and also recommend Firefox Portable so nobody has to suffer IE at work/school or whatever.

419Eater is my life Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 428

I have noticed that Firefox seems to get more security updates than Internet Explorer. This seems to be due to the fact that there are so many security professionals testing and releasing repairs for Firefox than IE, not that FF actually has more bugs.

On a side note, I always use Firefox when available. Partly because it's Firefox, and partly because I don't like the new IE's interface. And the old one doesn't have tabs. I can't stand having several windows open at once. Smile

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:32 pm

Also many open source projects tend to release more information about found flaws than MS does. And MS likes combining patches in one big patch and then just says "Fixes several security flaws in Internet Explorer". Wink

I actually most of the time use Konqueror, but for some things (including baiting) I use Firefox, just for the reason to keep things sorted.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:41 pm

I would choose software that released fixes weekly over any software that would release them over a few months(or more). This just implies, that if a bug is detected, I may trust it to be quickly fixed.

M$ is just using this fact in its FUD(a la. Firefox has more bugs).

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:49 pm

Just to fully explain...

yes I agree that my buddy is dead set on his own personal preferences.. no argument there... but i do trust him as i am still a computer novice...

Here in the US it is impossible to buy a new computer without windows already installed and I am used to it... I would have rather kept the XP version but now after using vista for a while I am quite happy with it... same with norton... I know not everyone agrees with either of those programs but again as a novice they have been good for my purposes so far...

I think my problems are arising from a recent update... my issues only give me a problem when on line... here is whats happening

- When I use yahoo IM it drops out regularly and comes back within seconds

- i log into yahoo i have it checked to log me in to all yahoo applications but when i try to click the mail icon , nothing happens

- when i click on the mail icon in the system tray it opens nortons homepage for some reason

- sometimes when opening multiple pages everything freezes and when i try a restart sometimes it gets stuck in a loop on the shut down page... I hold the power button to turn off the laptop and when i restart it goes through a scan disk and finds nothing (not everytime but sometimes)

again I know that some of you have extreme hate of both of these programs but up until now they have both done fine for me for my own uses. and my mail issues are for my own personal email... not my baiting email... although i use yahoo for my baiting email i have several others for that and log directly into those individually... as with my personal email... logging in that way everything works fine

if anyone can tell me how to get to view my recent updates page so i can uninstall all the updates from the past few weeks i will try that... as i believe that it is most likely an update issue that is causing this...

i appreciate all the info and the praises about all the other operating systems and software but i am not in any position at this point to do any major changes right now, nor do i feel comfortable doing a major change in software because i am so used to these programs... I am on line with a cellular modem and it is rather slow for downloading

Baiting Guru Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3193

Of course, if you install a security fix for IE you have to reboot. If you install a security fix for FF, you don't. So fixes are almost invisible, unlike IE, where you have to get a cup of tea while it reboots and then rebuild your desktop full of open programs.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:02 pm

mrbigtime wrote:

Here in the US it is impossible to buy a new computer without windows already installed

A common misconception (and no, I'm not about to direct you to The Apple Store). Wal Mart now sell desktop PCs with gOS (based on Ubuntu Linux) pre-installed for as little as $200, including a host of free applications.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:15 pm

I am a victim of my own doing... and what i am used to... call me afraid of change Confused

any one tell me how to open and view recent updates in vista? i would like to uninstall all of them in the past few weeks

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:20 pm

This might be what you're looking for: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2z67vn

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:15 pm

Before you start chopping out the MS security updates (not a good idea) why don't you try rolling back to an earlier restore point using System Restore?

You can roll back a few days (or weeks, or months, depending on the points you have), reboot, see how it behaves, put it all back to today, reboot and it's as if you never stepped back in time.

I have no idea where it is in Vista, but in XP it's Start/Accessories/System Tools/System Restore, select "Restore to an earlier date" and look at the bold dates on the calendar - those are the ones with available restore points.

Risky free. As long as the updates haven't wiped all your points.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:18 pm

is system restore something that automatically does a restore point or is it something i would have had to make a restore point of?

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:16 am

^^^^^
It does it automatically periodically itself, or when it detects certain software events or installations. It should be on by default, although some MS security updates will flush out all your old restore points to avoid you undoing all of Redmond's excellent work in papering over the cracks in the OS (I know, irony's a cheap shot).

As I said above, if you can find it in Vista it should show you a calendar, and every bold date will have at least one restore point. Page back to a date you fancy (any software installed after that date may not work, as your registry will be rolled back and will not have its entries - but this is no biggie as you can undo the restore))

I try to make a habit of creating a restore point before I install anything, in case I don't like what it does and want my system back as it was.

It's a good way of finding out when something happened that screwed your system (try several until you find the one that makes the OS work like you want). When you know that, then you can start deciding what to do.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:46 am

I did try the system restore earlier today and it only offered me the last 4 days... not in a calander type setting but as a list and for some reason it couldnt do a restore