Taking the Linux plunge....

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:04 am

Ex Good move.
You'll like linux a lot once you get used to it. However you will probably keep a windows box around for gaming. If you can dedicate an older machine for it that would be a good move. Using VNC you can always dial in to whichever computer you want to.

To get a feel for what Linux can do check out http://distrowatch.com/ I'd recommend picking up a copy of knoppix. It's a live CD and if you do any computer work it will pay for itself the first time you use it. Laughing

To browse Apps I like to check out http://www.icewalkers.com/ they email out a list of new software releases that I get. I'd also recommend looking at http://www.kde-apps.org/ That's a page that has lots of programs for making life easier.

@Harry. Give some thought to what you want to do with the spare computer. If you just want to test out Linux, that's fine. But you could make yourself a little server for a web site, printer, music/movie server, Router, FTP site or anything else you might think of.

I'm pretty OS agnostic but I do find the Al A Carte aspects of Linux to lend itself to projects very well.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:28 am

Well partitioning and formatting won't be a problem. I have software that can partition free HDD space without reinstalling Windows or formatting the HDD first.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:39 am

Also, many distro install disks have the ability to resize partitions when installing, so special software is not required. But use what you are use to.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:50 am

Here is a cool project list.

@JMRazor And I'd rather not have to shoot you! Laughing

http://www.oreilly.com/pub/h/4318

Quote:

Build a Cheap MacMP3/AACServer" covered how to create an awesome Mac-based digital music server. But what if you have a spare PC or a Mac that is too old to run OS X? For the old Mac, check out "Run iTunes on an Old Mac" . Otherwise, your best option is to look at creating a Linux music server for your iTunes music collection.

That's right, with an old machine you have lying around, and the best open source operating system out there, you too can easily build a jammin' music server. To make your jukebox complete, you can route your music to your stereo with AirPort Express and AirTunes.

Looks a little dated but worth a look

A more ambitious, and recent, version of this project can be found here:

http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT6488801276.html

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:47 am

DrWho wrote:

Also, many distro install disks have the ability to resize partitions when installing, so special software is not required.

I tried that last night when I was installing Ubuntu on a Dell C840 (I'd been playing with Ubuntu, Xubuntu and Mandriver off the CD's and decided to try one full-speed) and the only way I (a computer ignoramus) could get the install to work was to allow it to use the whole volume, apparently wiping my XP SP2 installation.

No problem with that; the XP had got so flaky that it needed a reinstall anyway, but I had heard that Ubuntu would detect XP and offer a twin boot option. If it did, it didn't shout loud enough for me to hear.

Harry wrote:

I have thought about trying Ubuntu on an old computer I have. It has a 700 mhz processor with 256 ram.

I've also been playing with something called Puppy Linux on an old IBM 390 with Pentium II and 256kB RAM. I tried Xubuntu off the CD but it waaaas soooo slooooowww. Puppy seems pretty quick, so I might try an install. Both the Linux distros seemed to get tense when they detected that the IBM's BIOS was pre-2000.

Sorry to hijack your thread Ex, but it seemed topical. You will probably manage much better than I am, as you appear to actually know what you are doing.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:09 am

Live CD's are very slow if the cd doesn't "fit" into RAM.
Xubuntu is actually VERY fast Smile

Trophy Videos · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:39 pm

I have played with Puppy Linux for awhile. It's strengths are it's speed on older machines with low memory and CPUs, and it's ability to run live CD, off the harddrive, or from a flashdrive. It's fairly easy to install new software packages, too. The support forum is very good, with lots of members. I like the newer 3.01 standard version, and the TMXXine version with Ice Window Manager is very slick. I downloaded Ubuntu a few days ago to check it out, and I'm only running off the live cd right now. It's much slower than Puppy in Live CD mode, but the gui is very polished and laid out a little differently than Puppy. Puppy looks alot more like Windoze in Gnome than Ubuntu. I have had absolutely no trouble with either distro in detecting my hardware setups on two different pcs.
They both just worked from the getgo. Keeping a LiveCD of either distro, packed with a few troubleshooting utilities is nice to have around too.
If you say you have a drive that won't boot anymore, perhaps you can boot a livecd and get your stuff off the other drive, or do some repair on it, and resurrect it.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:45 pm

Another puppy linux user here, I run a frugal install, faster loading than the cd no messing about with the windows mbr, it flies.

I've run from the usb drive too, never tried a full hdd install tho, as I believe it doesn't run in ram then, thus it seems slower but still no slouch.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:06 pm

I have 10 years of Linux experience. Had various distros on various hardware configurations (starting with 486@100Mhz with 16-24 Mb RAM, up to my current AMD Athlon X2, with ATA, SATA, and SCSI hard drives, lots of graphic&sound cards).
Had Red Hat 4.2-8.0, Fedora Core, Mandrake, Slackware, SUSE and openSUSE. Tried Ubuntu and KUbuntu too, but didn't really liked it. Laughing

Guess I'm a old school linux user, since there are some tasks I do better with a CLI instead of a graphical menu.
I prefer "full" distro's instead of "desktop" one.
My opinion on (K)Ubuntu is that it's a good beginner's choice, to get their feet wet on Linux.

My favorite up to now is Slackware, although it has some quirks that annoy me, like the mouse scroll wheel disabled by default and lack of automounting for optical and flash drives. Good solid distro, but I recommand it only to die hard users like me Wink

For an all-rounded one, Fedora Core and openSUSE are a good choice.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:53 pm

I've been using Linux for quite some time.

For a first-time user, Ubuntu/Kubuntu are definitely worth it. Each release seems more and more user-friendly.

Personally I like to tinker around a bit more than most "normal" computer users so it's ideal for me.

I have a separate PC for things that only work on Windows, which is a faster machine but my slower one works better with Linux.

Have a laptop with Vista on it as well, that quickly turned into a dual-boot with Windows rarely getting started Laughing

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:00 pm

Quote:

I had heard that Ubuntu would detect XP and offer a twin boot option. If it did, it didn't shout loud enough for me to hear.

Partitioning comes right after you've given your username. Ubuntu's site has screenshots of the entire installation process right here.

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:47 am

Data back up complete. Had to lose a couple games, but I hope its worth it. Commencing download of Ubuntu now....

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:57 pm

Ubuntu user here. Ubuntu comes with Gnome as the default, and I personally like it more than KDE. I found KDE to be a bit on the buggy side. You might also wanna give E17 a whirl eventually. If I wasn't happy with Gnome, that's what I would go with.

Also, you will have to install the video and MP3 codecs seperately. You can do it using synaptic (Applications -> Add/Remove)

I've almost completely migrated to Ubuntu after Windows caught a really nasty piece of malware. It took me 3 weeks to clean it out, and it's still not completely gone. I've been able to get most of my must-have Windows software running in Wine. The only thing I use Windows for now is video conversion, video capture, and video editing. The rest is all done in Linux.

Also, I wouldn't get too "settled in" yet, as the new LTS version is coming out in April. I'll be settling into that one myself, as it will be supported for three years (it'll be two before the next LTS release). Doing Ubuntu upgrades is just as painful / successful as doing upgrades in Windows.

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:28 pm

@Bungo

Have you set up /home on a separate partition? After that a re-install/upgrade is as smooth as silk. All your settings, desktop, bookmarks are just as you left them.

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:21 pm

^^^ Nice!

I gotta remember that!

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:06 pm

Quote:

Have you set up /home on a separate partition?

I did when I installed 7.10 so this round should go much smoother Smile

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:59 pm

Makes no sense. What do you want to do? Create a cluster? use Windows Server and pay the costs? Browse the web? Look at the clock?

I use Windows. You don't need to waste your time to find out why Linux 'is so good'. If you have some problems or have requirements then you might want to consider your options but I dont go eating brussell sprouts to try and answer the question why other people love em.

oh.. and i only read the first post, dont think I need to read the rest but good luck and knowledge can only be a good thing as you will now be able to consider more than one option when you have a real reason to consider.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:17 am

Quote:

I dont go eating brussell sprouts to try and answer the question why other people love em.

But I bet you bought a computer based on reviews from others. For some people too much knowledge is a dangerous thing. They need to have limited choices and have a required retirement plan that is out of their hands to save them from themselves and have the hood of their car welded shut so they don't have to check the oil once in a while. Others like to know, like having choices and to make their own decisions.

The multi partitions is good advice. Also, the root partition "/" only needs to be about 20gig at most. I have never gone beyond that and install a lot of system programs. Any games or programs that don't need root access that only you will run can be installed in the /home partition.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:10 am

Actually I agree with that but I tend not to read reviews and just spend a little time finding out anything to avoid.

I know unix more than windows. Most unix systems I dont have any monitor to look at. I used linux from day one and unix years before that and It was never really a type of system I would consider a desktop.

But that changed, Linux decided to target consumers and obviously supported by commercial and non-commercial interests. When gnome and KDE got introduced I watched a system boot up 3 x longer than expected and was like wtf is all that shit on the screen. I dont need that. It was almost artificial, like changing your desktop with software and runs slower.. more problems etc.

I've used windows for years too and rarely get any issues at all. All are self inflicted. I hear lots of people have problems. I also hear people claiming Linux is superior when actually, it's not. I make lots of mistakes but never had anything which has caused me any trauma using windows.

Out of all these OS threads I'll read the first couple of posts and stop when I see the bullshit starting. The way I see it.. is that people who mock or tell people their life would improve with Linux are the ones who must not have any clue how to manage the basics of a system. They probably had so much spyware and shit that they caused themself that they should not be giving anyone advice. I may go as far as saying that people should use Linux if they are an idiot. That way they will be less likely to be caught out opening exe's etc.

If your fairly experienced then does it really matter? If I play games and 80% of the market only provided for windows then its not my fault nor do I care about commercial politics... would i install Linux? I would not be baited nor would I like to make a choice from an idiot if I didnt know any better.

I think it's also hypocrisy that people talk about how it's so friendly and easy to use as windows but what is all this cool stuff? Its artificial decoration to create a system more like windows, and more and more of the stuff that windows was criticised for is being added to Linux.

People who base opinions on this might not have any clue about Linux. They might know Gnome desktop but you can spray paint a car but you can't really say it's better.

I'm simply being honest but I wish more people would use Linux, give them more choice and the companies are the ones who should be telling us why Linux is good.

Yes Linux is amazing but dont be fooled by what you see. If you can do all you possibly need to do and is better than your expeience with windows then choose Linux.

In fact, my browser is now more important to me than my desktop.. I couldnt care less about whats going in in the background. I never have any problems. If you are using software that is built for windows then I would not trust the alternative on Linux, same the other way around. Ever wondered why flash is shit on Linux? Well thats because its emulated because it was designed for the windows engine. If you are working on flash alot then I doubt anyone would mention this if you were to make a choice based on that. Well I dont feel I know enough to give a review or say what one is best for you. Noone knows the answer to that.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:19 am

[quote="thud419"]^^^ I haven't done it myself, but many have. So long as you install Windows first you can have both OSs on the same machine and choose between them at boot time - dual-boot. Windows doesn't play nice, so if you install it second it will wipe out the Linux install.

I understand that it is a no-brainer to do, but you may want to defrag the disk before you start, so that there is enough clear space for Linux... on the other hand that may not be necessary.[/quote]

Aaahh... thats the perfect answer if you want to mess around and dont need critical apps on 100% of the time. Very Happy

Thats what I have but I have never used Linux much at all. Windows is so much better for desktop stuff and software. You'll soon realise what you boot up is what is best for you. I only have a 10g partition for Linux and another which both OS's share.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:32 am

@ leccy

My installing Linux is purely for an educational purpose, as well as having experiences to recall form when I get into my next MS vs. Apple vs. Linux debate. Wink

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:04 am

Quote:

MS vs. Apple

Which will be deleted as we have agreed that we don't care to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:06 am

Sorry didn't mean it literally, Friday.

EDIT: leccy, you have no idea how many times those thoughts traversed through my brain.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:33 am

Friday,

It is going to be an educational experiment which might help educate others. I would certainly be interested in these opinions or debate which has a bit of substance.

I didnt see anyone say Linux was so great but I just wanted to highlight that if you install Linux and use FF on both machines for your debate then you might want to consider using opera, IE and Firefox as well then you wouldn't need to change OS at all. Or even try combinations. I couldn't elaborate anymore since you havent specified what you will be testing and comparing.

Well, you could help explain to us your opinion after posting your initial impressions of each OS in the forum and what you were actually doing comparisons of. After that we can then check the logs and see the actual OS and browser your using and then you can come back and educate us. We can even check the response headers and see how long your page loads compare. Look forward to it.

Remember that your desktop may not be familiar to what your used to so if you want to discuss the interface as well as the OS then you will need to try Gnome, KDE etc for a fair assesment. Remember optional clocks, screensavers and text editors are freely available so it might be a good idea to consider this too before your debate.

Good luck Very Happy

I hope it all goes well

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:48 am

@ leccy

Basically, this is an experiment to see the pros and cons of Linux firsthand. Everything I hear about it are, in fact, long winded speeches about how Linux is everything Windows isn't. Mainly I will be testing the following:

A.) User friendliness
B.) Media playback
C.) Functionality
D.) Usability
E.) Practicality
G.) Gaming (I kind of already know this will be a joke on Linux since I know they can't fully replicate the DX API)

Other purposes of this experiment are:

A.) To see if people expose themselves to bad OS (I am NOT saying Linux is bad; just using an example) just to be different
B.) To see if Ubuntu really is just eye candy

EDIT: What got me interested in testing Linux was the following:

A.) Multiple Desktops
B.) The concept of completely free software for everyone
C.) the ability to run native programs and Windows programs through the use of the Wine emulator.

As for the Mac vs PC vs Linux thing, it all started when everyone started trolling Vista and I was its sole defender. Then I got labeled for being a troll when I fought back.... Rolling Eyes

To quote myself, one shouldn't speak on subjects till they know what they are talking about, and I have been fairly acquainted with OS X already and have used all Windows versions since 3.1, so all thats left is Linux. Also, I may plan to test two other distros as well, since its not fair to test just one.

EDIT: I won't post any trollish results, just honest, feedback and criticisms.

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