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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:28 pm

Good grief: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3200996.ece

Scroll down to the "Black Money" bit..

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:33 pm

a sad story Crying or Very sad

so at least the scammers have an idea what cash-laundery is all about Wink

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:34 pm

The old reliable wash-wash, still, if he thought that it was dyed to evade customs then he knew it was dodgy money (although fake) so I don't have too much sympathy.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:35 pm

Not sure i can sympathise or not really, obviously his own greed was the reason he got scammed in the first place because he thought he was going to get money from the scammer.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:18 pm

Sounds like he had enough clues to figure out that it was a scam.
I wont say I feel hard-hearted about him, as he deserves it for being so greedy, but the thing that gets my goat(sic) is that the lad has got away with �100,000 (one hundred thousand GB pounds).

Trophy Videos · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:36 pm

I just hope the lad spends the money on hookers, deadly injectable drugs for himself and his buddies, and fancy cars. Not terrorist funding. Mad

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:37 pm

The whole concept of advance fee fraud relies on the "victim" being greedy (tell everyone what they already know), but to do �100,000???

That some people fall for this nonsense is insane.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:38 pm

^^I disagree with that, not all victims are greedy. Some are desperate and looking for any sign of hope. In the case of this article, you can't really say what state of mind the victim was in as there is just not enough evidence.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:33 pm

^^^ And I disagree with that. 419 scams rely on greed to blind the victim. All of them.

[Edit] - poll? Do we as baiters consider victims to be the victims of their own greed as much as victims of the scammers?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:51 pm

You both make valid points. Sadly, both greed AND desperation are what the scammers rely on.

Western Union · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:54 pm

"All" of them? That�s rather a sweeping statement. How exactly do you know that?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:54 pm

That is what I am saying Harry, that yes for some victims it is greed, but for some others it is pure desperation.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Mr Fishe wrote:

"All" of them? That�s rather a sweeping statement. How exactly do you know that?

It's human nature!! If you weren't interested and greedy, scammer emails would interest you no more than Viagra emails do! (Unless of course you need Viagra!)

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:08 pm

Edit....quote removed

Still, I think you under-estimate what desperation can do for someone. Add ignorance to the mix, and you are prime pickings for the scammer. I am not saying greed does not play a part, just that saying greed is soley responsible is not a correct statement.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:37 pm

Well, having access to the internet plays a part in it... But the fundamental reason people fall for this is greed.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:00 pm

In general, generalizations are problematic.

I think there's a mix, and the percentages probably vary by the types of scams.

NOK, wash-wash, mistaken identity bank draft, etc. scams probably do rely more on greed for success.

Lottery scams rely more on gullibility. One doesn't necessarily need to be greedy to be interested in claiming a prize. Most victims sincerely believe they have really won something.

Job and check mule scams probably rely more on desperation for success. I've read a number of victim accounts where they claim they couldn't find work and needed something to feed their kids, pay the rent, etc.

A lot of check mule scams rely more on loneliness where the victim has been contacted through a dating site and believes they are simply doing a favor for their new love interest.

I would think recovery scams rely on desperation too.

I'm sure I've missed some.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:04 pm

Some scams rely on good-natured people wanting to help a dying person set up a fund for their children or establish a charity. You might be gullible and naive to fall for such a con, but that doesn't mean you deserve to lose all your money.

There's a harrowing account of a Dutch woman who'd never known her father and was sucked in by a next of kin scam, she genuinely believed that her father had left her money that was rightfully hers. Gullible yes, greedy? No more than anyone who looks forward to an inheritance.

Many victims are greedy but others are simply good-natured and/or naive, neither are crimes, and neither mean you deserve to lose everything.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:04 pm

@ luckey I agree with what you say, I did say that 419 scams rely on greed. That is advance fee fraud. The other types do have different types of victims.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:24 pm

I sincerely believe that all scams rely on a mix of gullibility, greed, desperation, and charitable intentions.

The breakdown varies widely, depending on the types of scams, and the individuals involved.

For the record, lottery scams are advance fee fraud too.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:37 pm

Quote:

Black money victim

A pensioner has complained to police after paying �100,000 for a suitcase full of worthless blank paper in the belief that it contained banknotes dyed black.

The victim, from Dorset, was duped into believing he had bought money that had been stained to escape detection by customs officials. He also paid for a �chemical� to wash away the dye so he could literally launder the money.

Police believe the confidence trick is a �419� scam, named after the Nigerian criminal code for international fraud.

Black Money aka Wash-Wash Scams are normally the result of very clever grooming by Scammers, rather than quick hit "You have won the Lotto "

The best ones that I have seen use (real looking)Domain addresses rather than Yahspew and Botmail backed up with fake Bank and Courier Websites, and normally be the follow up, or a distraction, to other scams.

I would be guessing when I say that the Victim from Dorset has been the target of a scam before .... even a Victim before Crying or Very sad

I'm sure that if you knew the full story you would be surprised.

Guillable/Greedy? ... I don't comment !

EDIT >>> I see that the Dorset Police have it on their site

http://www.dorset.police.uk/default.aspx?page=1522&styletype=SmallFont&styleclass=FontSize

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:38 pm

Greedy and Gullible, sure, some victims are and it is greed that's their downfall. Unfortunately loneliness (in the case of love scams), desparation and many other factors also crop up. Sometimes it can be as simple as the victim has a poor grasp of English and although to a native speaker it's an obvious scam, to a foreigner it's not. Look for some stories of victims who have committed suicide or had total breakdowns. Not all of them were greedy and gullible, they just thought they had won a legitimate lottery or met the partner of their dreams.

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:21 am

Hmmm... now I want ot have my say on this:

- Next of kin The victims must be greedy here, because they know that they are NOT the intended inheritor.

- Refugee with trunkbox works with greedy victims and soft hearted as well. At least you cannot leave that refugee to die. Perhaps greed and curiousity makes victims bite, but many may only pay because they cannot deny the plea of the victim

- Sweetheart not greed. probably some man believe in things to be to good to be true and lust for easy sex ... but those who pay for a kidney transplant can hardly be said to be greedy.

- Phonelads stingy vics might prefer to buy at the cheapest shops. You must be extra stupid to pay to an unkown foreigner via western Union in advance ... but then, my late grandfarther in his old days might have done it.

- Lottery if you really believe you have won, greed might help to fall for this, but it is not necessary.

- Hitman fear - no greed!

So I'd say: Many victims will be greedy and greed helps the lad. But that is not to say ALL victims are greedy and it does NOT mean that victims receive what they dererve.

... just my 2 kobo Wink

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:41 pm

e6ffdyr0 wrote:

- Next of kin The victims must be greedy here, because they know that they are NOT the intended inheritor.

Usually, but not always. Sometimes lads have access to family names and tailor their catcher emails. I remember reading one victim account where the victim did have relatives in the country mentioned in the scam. Maybe just dumb luck on the lad's part. I agree though that such connections are probably very rare, and greed probably plays a larger role in NOK scams.

I also agree that greedy victims do NOT deserve to be scammed. Even if a victim is a complete low life and nut job, the ensuing financial hardship from these scams usually has tentacles that reach into the lives of their friends, families, co-workers, etc.

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:47 pm

Okay so not ALL victims are solely trapped by greed, I was wrong to say ALL.

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:55 pm

The victims I have come in to contact with, have either been naive beyond the realms of human understanding, have psychological problems or be so financially desperate they would believe any lie to try to get relief from their money problems.

I haven't dealt with any elderly people yet, but I know that my elderly mother would be easy meat for a scammer.

This does not include victims from thirld world countries who have only the TV and cinema to give them any understanding of how things work outside their world.

Bottom line is - if you believe the story, why wouldn't you do as they say ? I discount greed as the victims' fault, as I would discount that mugging victims are to blame for getting beaten up and robbed for carrying money, valuables, and daring to walk the streets.

Greed is one factor, but that does not make victims criminals like the scammers.