Legality of Scambaiting

By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics and access other forums reserved for members. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today by clicking here.

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:36 pm

It's incredibly unlikely that a baiter could ever be prosecuted. The only scenario I can imagine that happening in is if you somehow got a real photo of the lad, forwarded it to a bunch of other lads with a bounty on his head and said you wanted him dead, then they went and killed him. I believe this would be incitement to murder, but even then, how are you going to be found? Especially if you use proxies etc, they wouldn't even have a real IP to go to your ISP with.

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:22 pm

I think the most important reason why the lads will never be able to file any lawsuit against a baiter is simply that they themselves are using fake names or identities. How should they explain the police that a baiter called Harry Balls is owing him (Mr. Richards or whatever name they use) money, if his real name is completely different? The police or a court would simply laugh at him.

I go for the argument which was mentioned several times before: As long as you don't accept fake checks or stolen money from lads, there's no problem. Cool

Elite Baiter Joined: 02 Jul 2006 Posts: 1702

In addition to my previous reply, and KDS too, baiters do go to law enforcement thats how they get their shields - we have scammers arrested.

IN USA its perfectly legal to commit a lesser crime to prevent a larger crime[1] citation needed but ive read somewhere it is legal to do so.

In the uk all the police do is raise a few eyebrows and when they stop laughing its normally filed and forgotten unless the criminal is in the uk.

So i think thats the answer even if you tell the police you actively engage in conversations with scammers they will tell you to be careful, take the report and go for a coffee and get on with whatever it was they were doing before - there not going to come get you UNLESS you break the law itself, and no one here would so its a complete waste of discussion.

IBTL

Western Union · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:13 pm

Tsnerd wrote:

This question comes up every quarter or so.

There isn't anything wrong with the new members asking about it.

Please keep the snark to a minimum.

I feel TS was pretty clear. If you think this thread is a waste of your time then please spend it elsewhere.

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:22 pm

I asked one of the local police force here in Aus about this today since this topic came up.

While he is not with the Feds who deal with this so I cant quote him, basically said "No different to a drug dealer trying to claim stolen drugs and would get laughed at if they even tried"

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Posts: 6

@Rodus

Yup, IP address is not a problem if the correct precautions are taken (tor/proxies/public computers/wireless access points/etc). In this case, I'm not really bothering, because the PO box is the weakest link anyway.

@Ibinnavolldepp

Indeed, the fake name would present significant problems to the scammer. Good point. Didn't think about that before.

@digital-one

I don't know if we have that law in Australia (although I presume to some extent it applies).

@Capella

Well that really says it all doesn't it.

Thanks for the discussion guys, this really did help me out. I've decided that I'm completey comfortable to continue the scambait.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

Quote:

I've decided that I'm completey comfortable to continue the scambait.

Good

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:24 pm

Ibinnavolldepp wrote:

I think the most important reason why the lads will never be able to file any lawsuit against a baiter is ...

Nope. The most important reason is that it wouldn't bring them immediate, short term profit.

Lads are in this for one reason, and one reason only: profit.

Starting international lawsuits over a relatively minor loss is outside of their 'business' scope.

In Western countries people tend to sue not only for damagaes, but because somebody 'did them wrong.' The lads couldn't give a volant coitus about that.

It all begins and ends with cash.

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:06 pm

If you want a US data point, I do consulting for a branch of US law enforcement. They are aware of my baiting activities and have no problem with it. They have even asked me to see if I can get something from an "artist" I'm playing with. As can be expected, they are not interested in the lads (other than to get a laugh out of what I'm doing), but I hope to perhaps cultivate some contacts.

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:47 pm

I doubt any baiter would find themselves in any legal trouble, criminal or civil as a result of baiting.

First, the lad would never contact any REAL authorities to report you. The worst he would do is have the [email protected] email you to make threats. Don't expect a squad of bullet-proof vested g-men showing up @ your door w/ warrants ready to lock you up & throw away the key.

Second, if a lad were so unlikely inclined to sue you for breach of contract for not paying him for his artwork/great American novel/tattoo/video for Bush he would lose plain and simple. Lucky for you right, that you could prove the lad had unclean hands when entering into the so-called contract. Meaning he wasn't acting in good faith when posing as a barrister/government official/orphaned refugee when the meeting of the minds took place making the contract null...you win YEAHHHHHH!!! It's like a drug smuggler suing his connect for not holding up his end of the bargain, absurd!! And at any rate, where on earth would the mugu get the money to bring a case anyway?? My guess is he'd have no choice but to get one of his unsuspecting victims to WU him $$ for the filing & attorney's fees at 100x what the actual fees were.

As for cash baiting. It is technically illegal & I wouldn't encourage it. But even then, I wouldn't expect those aforementioned g-men popping up to cart you off to jail. One, there is a 99.999999% chance of no complaining witness to alert them a crime was committed. Two, you could cover your ass by giving Uncle Sam his cut (or whatever the British equivalent is), in which case I doubt they would actually commit resources for your apprehension on a petty theft charge. A $50 cash bait would hardly draw the attention of even Mayberry's Sheriff. A mugu could sue you in small claims court, again unlikely, but at worst, you'd have to give him his $50 back & pay court costs. But why press your luck on this front, since it is illegal.

Getting those fake checks is where you see people (I mean real victims) get into serious trouble. Cashing or attempting to cash the check is obviously a crime. Being a mule can also get you into hot water. If they were so inclined, you could be charged with simply being in possession of them. This I think is sad & unfair if you were a real victim. It may be obvious to us & a lot of other people the deal is completely bogus...but not everyone is like that.

For your average, run of the mill bait, don't expect to find yourself on any Most Wanted lists, the subject of a search or arrest warrant, or hauled into court for any reason. The worst that will ever happen is the mugu gets fed up w/ you & your lies & finally drops you, leaving you free to find a fresh new mugu, or another angle with which to bait that same dumb mugu who just dumped you.

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:52 pm

Good point, kleindoofy. However, I said: "...will never be able to file a lawsuit...", whereas your argument was more about why he would never do it because of lacking motivation; i. e. no quick profit, as you correctly stated. One more reason why it is extremely unlikely that any lad would ever start legal action.

In my current bait (that one with the shitload of animal + sign photos) I was a little bit concerned about that at the very beginning, because the initial letter was written by "Lad#1", and when he answered me to my standard answer (offer of money for "promotion" photos) he told me that I should contact "Lad#2" (different name), which I did. My concern was: What if this second guy isn't a scammer but really runs some sort of serious business? First, I don't want to scam honest people with my baiting activity, second, he could start legal action against me after not getting paid.

Well, as you may already have guessed: No reason to worry. Lad#1 and Lad#2, although having different names, are one and the same person. IP-addys and writing style matched perfectly! Laughing

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:29 pm

I would tend to think that anyone a lad put you in contact with that might bring the other person money is either the lad himself or a fellow fraudstar. Anything is possible, but I highly doubt any lad would turn his victim over to anyone else so that person can get a huge payday instead of him. If you come across a lad so selfless and charitable as to fork over even 1 nickel to someone else, contact Guinness immediately b/c that would definitely deserve to make the "Amazing Feats" section.

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:10 pm

@ leeuwen - A couple points to clarify for you.
1) I am in the US
2) I never requested anything from the scammer. I simply had replied to an Ebay scam I was not familiar with.
3) I never was involved with an investigator at a credit card company.

I had posted my statement to mention one experience I had had.

I received a vacuum cleaner to sell on Ebay and than to spilt the proceeds with the scammer. The item came direct from the retailer where it was purchased, more than likely with a stolen credit card. A little research on my part revealed this to be the case.

As a side note, please do not send your checks to any banks. I am a security officer at an financial institution and have plenty of other fraud items to contend with without having to deal with additional mail. Chances are we wouldn't know what to do with it anyway and would send it back to either the person who mailed it to us of the institution it is drawn on.

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:06 pm

What ho! I'm only posting here because my signature may be relevant.

Bait on chaps!

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:24 am

I'm really new to this, and one of my lads will soon ask me to recieve checks (at least I'm fairly certain he will), and this left me with the classic options:
1) Give him my address-not too bright.
2) Get a postbox, or similar drop - costs me money, I want the lad to pay.
3) Find another baiter with a drop
4) Give him a fake address - means the postal service will return the mail to sender, and I want the check out of circulation.

But I opted for 5: I called the fraud department, explained what I'm doing, and that I'd like to see the check end up at the proper authority, or at least destroyed, and they happily suggested I'd use their address.

So: I'll let my lad mail the check to the police, since they _asked_ me to.
Solved. No trophies for me, but hopefully a few checks out of circulation - at least until the address gets well known.

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:05 pm

EvilSwede wrote:

...
3) Find another baiter with a drop ...

Look no further.

A few Eater members have time tried drop boxes. Just become a premium member.

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:03 pm

^
Oh, I'll most likely become a premium member, but I'm still waiting for a mentor, and I needed an address in Scandinavia anyway Very Happy

Besides, It gives me a warm sense of satisfaction if I can get lads to mail fake checks to the police. Twisted Evil

EvilSwede, a few posts above this one, wrote:

But I opted for 5: I called the fraud department, explained what I'm doing, and that I'd like to see the check end up at the proper authority, or at least destroyed, and they happily suggested I'd use their address.

So: I'll let my lad mail the check to the police, since they _asked_ me to.

Mod edit: I inserted that quote to preclude any responses from the other readers who may have missed that bit. TS