So here I go

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 11

I get bombarded with 419 offers constantly and after spending a few days on this great site I set up a gmail account and answered a couple. I was wondering if someone could tell me what to expect from one in particular that I responded to with a simple request for more information, city state and a phone number that always will be busy.

DEAR CANDIDATE,

We are a Kenze Firm company based in London,UK We currently need you
as a
client that will represent our company in United State as packages
receiver and sent to our clients in Africa and Asia because most people
in
and Africa/Asia and Europe because all other countries believes that
product been supplied from United State are the best in the world that
And
most company in the state don�t ship packages internationally that is
why
we need you as our company representative as packages receivers. Your
Job
description is as follows:

1). You will be receiving packages from companies in the United State
on
behalf of our company from various companies which will be coming to
you
inform of small boxes.

2)When you receive any boxes for our company? you are to contact our
company through Via email or you contact our company telephone number
that
you have received a package and packages..

3)As soon as contact our company Via email or telephone that you have
a
package or packages .Company will provide you a shipping document that
is
being address with receivers name�s and the senders name�s then you
paste
it on the box.

4) I am the one to pay for shippings charges? No because company have
an
accounts with DHL ,UPS COURIER COMPANY'S, once they come just give the
boxes to any of the carries and you don't have to pay Dim.

5) How will I send out the packages? Is either you call DHL or UPS
Company
for pick up or you schedule for pick up yourself.

6)How much is going to be my service charges every month ?250 us
dollars
Via western Union Transfer because we are not paying with check or
money
due to fraud handling ,you only receive your payment through western
union
transfer.when we see how you work for our company then we increase your
payment.

7) What do I need to have before working with Kenze Firm Company? You
need
to have a internet access and printer machine because when a shipping
labels and commercial invoice send to you, you will need to print it
out.

If you are interested in working with our company the following
information�s should be provide
. via email.
1) Your Full name:.............
2)Address:................
3)City:................
4) State:...................
5) Zip Code:................
6) Your Phone number...........
7) Your Age.................
Cool

Your Occupation.............
9) Your Nationality...............
10) Your Martial status.........

After submission they will still be a screen ,if you are qualified you
will receive an approval letter from our company.

N:B: THIS IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW
Best Regards,

Mrs Rita Breymon , MBA
Chief Admin Officer

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:17 am

I've never seen one quite like that before, and it's quite an ambitious one to take on first time, but probably quite fun too. Very Happy

I imagine that they are purchasing goods in the USA with phished or stolen credit card details and intending you to pass on the goods to them and leaving you to talk to the FBI. I imagine that they have tried this before and found that getting goods sent out direct to West Africa alerts the companies that it's a scam so they intend to use a victim as a fence to obscure where the goods are destined to be sent. Cunning little blighters.

With the more standard 'cheque mule' type scam you could use one of the drop boxes (if you were a paid up member) but they would not want to be involved in receiving what are essentially stolen goods. That means you must supply a fictitious address for them to send you goods which, of course, you will never receive. It has to be fictitious to avoid involving innocent third parties. Perhaps you could select a real street but add a house number that does not exist, so that if they check it will appear real.

Your choice then is either to try to convince them that you are receiving these goods, or maybe more successfully, keep telling them that the goods have not been received and demanding more details of who sent them to you and how - basically irritating the crap out of them, and trying to make them suspicious that they are being ripped off by the sender.

Welcome to the World of Fun and Hilarity and Good Luck. Feel free to ask any other questions.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:22 am

Just an idea, would it be wrong to give the address of a police station?

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 11

Hmmm how would it be if I just had them sent to an FBI substation or something like that and did as you said, complain I never got them, assuming that that�s what this will be like.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:27 am

The rule of thumb here is that we generally avoid involving any ITP (Innocent Third Parties). That includes law enforcement. Keep in mind that your local police department has no jurisdiction in Nigeria or Ghana or wherever the heck your mugu lives. They will simply get stuck with some boxes that they have no idea why they recieved.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:27 am

Get some more advice on that before you go ahead and do it as i am not sure on it, just a thought, other will no doubt have an opinion

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:28 am

I'm afraid that's verboten (forbidden) Murry as it will only waste their time as their is little they can do and they count as innocent third parties.

Hopefully the parcels will have a return address and they will just get sent back without wasting the time and resources of LEO's who we always want to keep on our side. The baiter will have done the company a favour as well by protecting them from losing their goods. So slaps on the back all round.

It's that sort of warm fuzzy feeling that makes us bait. Very Happy

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:31 am

What I'm wondering is if it would be possible to ensure that the boxes are shipped back to the vendor! As Gomer points out, more than likely it's goods purchased with stolen CC numbers or fake checks. The loser here is the merchant who sends the box to you. That's really bothering me. I would NOT want to participate in any bait that caused financial harm to others.

This is making me think about some method to get the boxes shipped back to the merchant, with some kind of notification that the purchaser used a stolen card or bad check? What do you experienced baiter think?

I just don't like the idea of the goods being shipped off to nowhere - they may end up sitting in a post office somewhere, and the merchant loses. Sad

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 11

Ah hmmmmm i'm beginning understand. So the scam is they will be fraudulently buying items and having them shipped to their newly hired forwarder, who should be forwarding them onto them. However because the address will not exist the packages will be returned to the victims, who will then only be out the cost of shipping. And probably the reason for using the third party is that the victims would have thought twice before shipping out of the country. And of course anyone who fell for this would sooner or later have LEO at the door wanting to know where the goods are.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:41 am

I understand your concern Cachuma but it's doing a service to have them routed to nowhere, where they should then get returned to sender, giving the merchant the chance of getting their goods back at least. It also teaches the scammer a lesson that this scummy trick isn't an answer to their criminal desires.

The alternative is to allow them free range to find gullible victims, in which case a victim gets hammered by LEO and the merchant loses out.

In my humble opinion baiting this type of scam is quite virtuous and sensible - but what do I know ? I wouldn't hesitate, but I did say it was ambitious for a first bait - though why should that stop anyjoe419 ?

Correct anyjoe419. In this case the middleman and merchant in the USA would both be victims, and of course the idea is to hide the eventual destination, which would be Nigeria, or another country that would raise a red flag to any company receiving an order by credit card.

By luring the scammer into thinking he was safe to use the credit card and then screwing the transaction up you would also be trashing his ability to use that card or those details again. Screwing scammers ? - that's what we do.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:44 am

It was just an idea and as pointed out posed as a question.

This is a moral question we are confronted with often.

There are going to be victims and we cant stop that, minimising the amount of victims and harm is the best we can do here.

First the person who's account has been phished, (the money is usually covered by the CC company but that can take weeks or months to sort out)
then the merchant,
then the CC company
When it gets to the CC company the police will be involved either way
Then the intended vic gets his share of pain after that.

Somewhere in there the delivery company will be involved as their payment is usually by the same CC so the banks and police need to get involved again

While I agree with the concept of not wasting the time of LEOs there has to be a better way to deal with this situation, too many victims cant be saved.

"kak shoveler" Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 243

I would think you could have them sent to an old, about to be torn downed or condemned building. Heck, I have some major open fields on my street with no building on them. I would assume one could figure out a address.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:47 am

Well I guess the key would be to use an address that is so wrong that the shipping company would definitely return it to the sender.

This type of bait has a reasonably short shelf life, tho -- at some point the vendor is going to send an emal back to the purchaser that their box was returned, right? And then the mugu would know that his new "employee" was a joker....

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 11

Im not opposed to handing this off Smile

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:53 am

If baited successfully we can minimise the harm done, if it was not a baiter doing this but a real vic then the damage would be far worse and the scammer wins again.

Even with some problems that cant be fixed baiting this would be for the overall good, just a matter of limiting the the damage as much as possible.

One good thing to come out of this is that Anyjoe now understands how the scam works

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 11

I think unless one were to contact LEOs and have them in the loop it could be legally wrong as I would knowingly be involved with assisting the actual scam to take place regardless of the fact that the merchants would probably get the stuff back and the scammers would not see the fruits. The scam is really still taking place and I would be involved.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:57 am

Don't get discouraged anyjoe419, you just happened to select one a little out of the ordinary (in my experience). I'm up to my knees in baits just now but I'm sure someone will contact you for details, who can do some good with this particular scammer.

You'll still have lots of questions when you start out, even with a standard scam, but that's why they have stickies, mentors and the help forum. Wink

Master Baiter Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 158

Cachuma wrote:

I would NOT want to participate in any bait that caused financial harm to others.

This is where there is no win for the baiter. If you dont, then an Innocent Third Party Will. Nothing at all will have been done to stop this type of scam and everyone is injured.

I recommend a non existent address. A courier will return to sender, at the post office it will end up in the dead letter office where it can be later retrieved.

It is the LEAST damaging option of them all. Else the scammer will find an ITP with no clue, they will use the stolen cards, and the ITP will send it on. The merchant and the ITP will be hurt, and the scammer will get his stuff. While this IS one where you have to take a position you really don't - ignoring it is a lad victory.

ETA: I have been on the merchant side of this while working for a local telco. Several mobiles were sent to the same address before it was noticed. It turned out the ITP wasnt so dumb. The parcels were going to a pet shop and *no one* knew who got them. If it was a false address, our shipping company would have brought them straight back.

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:28 am

I would use a non-existent address that will flag up as such to the delivery company. In the USA ghost towns are good, as are uninhabited islands. In the UK I like to use this address....

http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html

The full postcode is W2 3AN.