HDTV USA

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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:16 pm

For Christmas Mrs. The Man has agreed to let me buy my own present in the form of an HDTV. I know diddly doo about them other than when I see a football game in HD it makes me cry that I don't have one at home.

Any advice/web sites with info deeply appreciated! I've no idea where to start.

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:13 pm

My job is: TV's. So ask away!

A few pointers, do you intend to get a HD source?
I dont know how easy it is to get HD in the USA, but in the UK its only available through Sky or Virgin Media (formerly NTL).

Make sure you check what quality of HD it is. At the moment there are 2 main types, in different resolutions depending on the size of the TV. 'i' 720i, 1080i etc is the lowest quality HD and is know as 'interlaced'. 'p' comes in 720p, 1080p etc and is the better quality, know as 'progressive scan'.

The TV will say on the ticket with it whether it is 'p' capable or 'normal 'i'' spec.

Obviously, its not worth getting a 1080p capable TV if your source (TV provider) can only give you 720p (not too bad) or, even worse, 'i' quality.

Most, if not all, new gaming consoles Xbox360 Elite and PS3 are full HD capable (p) whilst the bog-standard Xbox360 is only 'i' spec. and the Wii doesnt do HD at all.

Finally, 720, 1080 etc refers to the number of vertical lines on the TV, clearly NO manufacturer can produce a 26" TV with the 1080 lines required for 1080p HD, so smaller TV's tend to use 720p instead, evidently, the larger the screen the greater the value of HD you can use.

As i said, I work with TV's anyway, so if you, or anyone else has any further questions, fire away.
Razz

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:17 pm

Trustme:

Thanks for the info!

My cable provider and DirecTV can both give me 1080p. I will upgrade to one of those two when I get the TV depending on who gives me the channels I want at the right price.

Now, since there is a quality difference between the 700 lines and the 1000 lines how do I tell if going for the better quality (and thus larger TV) is worth the increased cost? Is there some kind of formula that if your TV room has you sitting so many feet away from the TV you should go with 1080 or 700?

Do you know anything about what BRAND of TVs I ought to be looking at? I.E. Sony is over priced for the quality or generic brand X is built in the same factory that builds name brand y so they are the same TV?

Thanks Smile

EDIT: Oh, and are you one of those Nigerian Barristers I deal with all the time Wink

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:24 pm

My HDTV is the 1080p - now when I flip chaneels it tells me if its in 1080p or 780p. Her ein the US we can get HDTV over the air, and most cable companies and the two large satalite providers offer HD as well.

And unless congress changes it by Feb 9th 2009 - All over the air programming will be HD, required by law - of course there will be converter boxes for those that dont have a HDTV.

I have Cox Digital cable and all the ESPNs, Major Networks, Major Cable Networks are in HD now..

Also it depends on the feed - some channels are in the 1080p, some in the 780p and some even in the I - thus depends ion the feed of the broadcaster and not the overall source - at least here on Cox. (unless i am having a brain fart here)

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:38 pm

The Man wrote:

Trustme:
Do you know anything about what BRAND of TVs I ought to be looking at? I.E. Sony is over priced for the quality or generic brand X is built in the same factory that builds name brand y so they are the same TV?

YES, Sony do over-price their TV's, just recently there was an (almost) nation-wide bycott of Sony TV's, coz they were pricing themselves out of the market and no-one in retail wanted to buy them, they just didnt have sufficient margin.
They're better now, but Sony and Samsung are working hand in hand on a lot of their technology, so for a Samsung quality screen, with Samsung quality sound with Samsung quality build, go for a Samsung. Sony's arent bad, but they aint worth the price difference any longer. Panasonic are one of THE BEST out there, but again, depends on how much you want to spend.
Samsung screens have one of the best ranges of connectivity around aswell, vvv useful for connecting TV to surround sound, consoles, PC!!!!, DVD rec. etc

On to screen sizes:

32"-22", about 2 - 2 1/2 meters back. (sorry, forgotten if you guys still use feet or not, I'll put both in for good measure.) 6 - 8 foot (mostly 720p)

32"-37" 2 1/2 - 3 m : 8 - 10 foot (smallest 1080p TV's are usually 37", rarely smaller and if they are, they're very expensive)

37"-50" 3m+ : 11 foot+ (nearly all will be 1080p)

I cant imagine you'de want to do any larger than a 50" screen.

Whilst you WILL see a big difference between a HD and a non-HD tv, the differences between the quality of HD are harder to see and not necessarily a big concern.

The Man wrote:

Trustme:
EDIT: Oh, and are you one of those Nigerian Barristers I deal with all the time Wink

Me?....erm.....nooo (exits stage left)

Also, may have to moove to USA, not only do you have MULTIPLE 1080p HD providers, but they are considering making HD law??? I do pity wonder if we'll ever get our backsides into gear with technology. Broadband speeds are still an issue over here Sad

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:38 pm

Lester:

I think you are right. My point was that Comcast and DirecTV do not limit the quality. They are set up to give you the 1080p if you have a TV and box that can handle it (and the show is in that quality).

EDIT: Trustme: Generally where you live in the US you can get TWO HD providers. Your cable company (one per area with a monopoly) and DirecTV a sat provider. Makes them compete on price and channels offered... it is a good thing Smile

We go digital in 2009 by law to free up some bandwidth over the air.

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:48 pm

Yeh, we're going Digital atm, final switch over is London in 2011. (just before the Olmypics aswell Razz

)

Cable isnt as widely spread over here either, and Virgin Media (the cable lot) only recently took over and the customer services is still in a state. Also, their HD is as kinda useless.

Sky are far better, but with little or no real competition, the prices for HD remain high and there's only one free-to-air channel in HD, and you still need to be either a Sky or Virgin customer in order to recieve it.

Will be another 3/4 years before we get to the sort of position you appear to be in currently.

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:52 pm

You haven't asked the important question yet The Man. Plasma vs LCD

Plasma is not as bright as LCD and has more of what people call an earthy tone. LCD's have very bright vivid colours. Everything stands out on an LCD, but LCD's tend to be more expensive than Plasmas. There are some other differences you can look up online or I am sure some of our other esteemed members can point them out.

Personally what I did was go to Best Buy, Circuit City, and Frye's and just look at a bunch of them side by side. Got the name of a few of them that I liked the best, then went home and did a little research on each one.

I ended up with a Samsung LCD 46" LNT4665F. I am very happy with it.

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:05 pm

I remember looking at plasma's a few years back and the sales guy in Dixons said that they had a lot of trouble with people returning them due to overheating problems. Is this still the case?

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:18 pm

Mod Edit: No need to fully requote the previous post. Its still readable ^^^^

When plasma was first brought out, yeh.
It tended to be more of a problem with the TV's actually needing re-gassing. As Mr. Dixons should have told you, plasma TV's have a gas filiment, whereas LCD's are basically a big circuit board with lights.

Becuase storing the gasses at temperature will always be a problem (gasses expand with energy, heat etc.) LCD's tend to be prefered, but technology has caught up with the Plasma and the TV's DO last a lot longer than before.
However, most Plasma's have a 'half-life' of about 7/8 years, assuming 8 hours of TV a day. (Love that game btw) Which means that after about 30,000 hours of usage, most Plasma TV's will 'produce half the brightness compared to when it was new', the same effect would require the TV to be turned on for 24 hours a day for 4 years straight.

EDIT: To actually answer the question you asked; yes, Plasmas WILL still require regassing, but probably not before you'de want your TV replacing in the first place. Also, by which point, it'd be cheaper to buy a new TV of exactly the same specification than to get your old TV re-gassed.

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:44 pm

In one of my jobs we put in a Runco for the client at a cost of around 20K for the TV alone. IMHO the quality isn't really worth the premium.

@ TheGreatOok
Good idea. There is a lot of variance with off the shelf TV's. Unless you want to spend the time and money for a calibration kit I'd recommend picking out one that looks good to you from the start.

Of course for my TV I got a 32" 1080i refurbed Soyo off an auction site for a Very Happy

price! Picked up the comcast hi-def box and was in business!

The only tweek I'd recommend is a good pair of speakers. I picked up a good Altec Lansing set. The kind you would normally plug into a computer. The satellites and subwoofer make a BIG difference.

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:56 am

MY 2 cents... stay away from HP tvs. May sound like a 'no big deal', but their remotes suck big time. You can't just get a basic off the shelf $15 multi remote either to use it as they use their own proprietary codes that no one wants to pay for. Remote breaks? You're stuck paying $170 (yeah, that much) for a replacement sucky remote. The only one that they don't make that will work with it is the Logitech programmable ones, the ones that are $100+. Wish I knew this before I got my 32" LCD HDTV.

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:16 am

Its hard to find a plasma TV in the US now. I think its all LCD that is far superior now.

But dont forget Dish Network for HD as well in the US.. plus you can still get HD channels for free over the air.

But yes in 2009 its law that we go HD. but on cable the boxes will step it down to NTSC though still for awhile

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:20 am

Mr. Man; are you sure DirecTV gives 1080p? I have DirecTV and as far as I can see they only offer 1080i. DVDs are coming out with 1080p. Added: My player will convert from i to p.

I have a Samsung 42" 1080p LCD and am very satisfied with it. I do know that you need to be careful with LCDs many I looked at had the jaggies when trying to display fast action. I was surprised to see it even on the big name screens.

Added: Also I was told to stay away from plasma. Because a plasma screen will lose 50% of its brightness in the first 2 years. An LCD light can be replaced but not a plasma.

Master Baiter Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 233 Location: USA

Trustmeimalawyer wrote:

My job is: TV's. So ask away!

Most, if not all, new gaming consoles Xbox360 Elite and PS3 are full HD capable (p) whilst the bog-standard Xbox360 is only 'i' spec. and the Wii doesnt do HD at all.
Razz

All excellent advice, Trustme! I will definitely consult with you when I take the plunge--which hopefully won't have to be for a few more years...although watching 'Stargate SG-1' in HD is certainly appealing...Amanda Tapping....sigh....but I digress...

However, when you posted the above info on gaming consoles, I couldn't resist sending you THIS link: Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvZnTFpip0&feature=related

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:33 pm

DrWho wrote:

Added: Also I was told to stay away from plasma. Because a plasma screen will lose 50% of its brightness in the first 2 years. An LCD light can be replaced but not a plasma.

Depends on the quality of the screen, most wont lose the 50% brightness (half-life as I've alreday mentioned) for 3/4 years, and that would require them to be turned on for most of the day (16+ hours).
However, the point still stands. LCD's are far better, and more reliable than Plasma technology at the moment.

John Drake wrote:

However, when you posted the above info on gaming consoles, I couldn't resist sending you THIS link: Smile

FANTASTIC! Much time was spent rolling on the floor in fits of laughter.
'Why not buy a Wii Mein Furher?' Very Happy

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:10 pm

We got an LCD that was a floor model at Circuit City and it was very reasonably priced.

We also added an HDMI cable and that really does make a difference in the quality. The only problem is the volume goes way UP when commercials are on Shocked

Guess comcast wants to get our attention anyway they can.

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:37 pm

trustme wrote:

...go for a Samsung

I'll second that. Very happy with mine. The sound kind of sucks though. Not a comment about Samsung, I think it's difficult to get good sound in such a thin package. Luckily there is a broad range of home theater gear at your disposal. There is no limit to what you can do there, but I was able to get a dramatic improvement just by plugging in a pair of Altec Lansing computer speakers.

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:13 pm

-^^^-

Samsungs are very good, however you have picked out the one downside to the TVs and thats the sound quality from the built-in speakers. Samsung mount them on the bottom of the chassis (and out of sight, there's a little grill the sound comes out of, under the front of the TV) whereas most TV manufacturers mount the speakers frontal facing on both sides, or at the bottom.

Nice a design element as it is, luckey is right to point out that the sound quality used to be poor and for that very reason, the speakers were hidden away and there were less speakers in there. They HAVE fixed this now, I had a Samsung rep. bash that into my head recently after I nagged him at his stand at a recent closed-off demo show about Samsungs & sound (amoungst other things).

So, if you're not too happy with the sound, do as luckey did and grab a surround sound kit, or speakers atleast.

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:19 am

Thanks for the advice all! I have some more research to do now that I know what questions to ask!

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:13 am

The mention of the HDMI cable reminds me. Never buy a cable from a store. One of these cables in a store (Monster usually) will sell for $50 to $80. You can get the same thing online for $15. Since it is a digital signal, as long as the cable can deliver the data bits, you don't need a high quality unobtanium wire, super shielded, day-glow yellow with green plug over priced Monster cable. A digital signal either works or doesn't, there is no level of quality to the signal like an analog signal.

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:38 am

^^^Yes Monster Cables are a rip off!

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:35 pm

I bought a 42" plasma for Mrs. Krona last Christmas. I used this resource a LOT:

Plasma TV review

Plasma and LCD are both extremely reliable. A recent article in Consumer's Report recommended either (and recommended against the extended warranty, these things have a minuscule repair rate). In a prior life, I had to oversee development projects for both of these devices for portable computer screens (yes, there have been plasma computer displays, youngsters, just not recently). The problems we had then are still problems today, just not quite as bad.

I know a good bit about both technologies - been to the factories, learned and forgotten the physics, all that - and I'd say don't make a purchase based on any of that stuff. Don't decide based on maybe having to replace backlights or maybe having to inject more gas into the set. You probably will never have to worry about a repair. If you are going to put the screen in a room with bright lights, particularly with sun coming in, get a LCD because it's not as reflective. Plasma is brighter, but has a highly reflective screen. It goes better in a darker room. The brightness of the display generally overwhelms most lighting, but not direct sun. The MOST important consideration is finding the right price point judging picture quality, screen size, and screen resolution. I ended up with a 42" Panasonic plasma, and love it.

Personally, I can't stand DLP projection. I see all sorts of motion in the picture, the DLP chip just sounds too unreliable to me, and the bulb has a much shorter life than either LCD or plasma (and is something like $350 to replace). Many people love DLP and see no motion at all in the display, I'm just not one of them.

By the way - and no offense to anyone here is intended by this - don't trust the salesfolk at the mega stores (Best Buy, etc.). They get told to push a certain model for various reasons - overstocked, or higher profit, or the manufacturer is giving them a rebate, or whatever. A good home theater store will give less biased advice (but still somewhat biased), but your best bet is to do your own research. Bless Al Gore for inventing the Internet!

The cable company here has maybe 8 HD channels. We went for DirectTV. Someone above said that they broadcast 1080i, not 1080p, and I believe that's right. However, high def DVD players (Blu-Ray or HD DVD) both reach 1080p. That's what I'm struggling with this year: Blu-Ray or HD DVD. I'll probably end up with Blu-Ray courtesy of the Playstation 3.

Trophy Videos · Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:09 pm

@The Man,
Here's a nice general guide to lcd tv's.
http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/

I just bought a Toshiba from tigerdirect.com for my bedroom, and I love it.
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/lcd/product.asp?model=32hl67u

It was between the sharp aquos and the Toshiba.
The Sony may have had a slightly better picture, but was hundreds more.

Definitely buy the cables online. Retail cables are a major ripoff.

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:35 pm

We didn't buy the HDMI cable from a store for exactly the reason you mentioned. We paid $20 for it at a small a/v store in NYC.

On a related front, you can also get some great deals online for wall mounts. Some of the stores have them reasonably priced but know what it's worth before paying their price.